If you’re saying that a pursuit of maximum utility according to the perspective of the individual pursuing it means that everything in the world is done out of love then you’re assuming that a)everyone perfectly executes a rational strategy toward increasing thier individual utility, b) that such a strategy exists, and c) that all possible ways if increasing utility according to such a strategy are purely matters of love. I’m sure there’s a whole alphabet of objections, I mean, did love kill the jews? How do you think native americans would feel about love if they knew it was responsible for thier extermination? I want to agree with you, I can feel the good vibes coming from your posts, but I’m just not getting it. Help me out here.
sure- let me explain- now you’re speaking of actions that show lack of love- side note- evil is not a force- there is only love and lack of love- now lets say someone kills another person- the murderer committed murder because he/she felt that killing that person would make them happy- everything that everyone does is because they think it will make them happy- everyone is in the same happy boat- but some go about it in different ways- you can be a serial killer rapist of 4 year old girls- but does that make you evil ?- was hitler evil?- no- maybe psychotic- but that’s not the same thing as evil- an evil force could never exist because it would have to exist against its own will. you see - if anything exists its only because the entity itself wants to exist- you’re breathing right now because your body wants to exist- not because it has to but because it wants to- but this want is inherent in anything that exists from an atom to a quark- so in that capacity you can see that with these small little particles that everything in this world is made- maybe you cant see the want in them- or maybe you think they are just abiding by certain laws- both are true and if you can manifest them into self-knowing entities such as human beings you can see that matter itself is very special since it can create such incredible entities. have you ever seen an unhappy baby? - you can surely understand that every entity has a biological want to exist- that want is what you call love. - the simplest definition of love is when you care about the existence of something whether it be yourself or someone else no matter how great or small that care is and you must agree that everything in order to sustain its own existence must care about itself- this care tranfers over into our every thought and action- all the way down to killing someone- now intelligence plays the fundamental role in how morally wrong our actions are- you see the more intelligent you are the more love you will show- anyone that says that they’re intelligent but does wrong things is either ignorant or not that intelligent at all. if you kill another person - obviously emotion will be a factor in all actions but emotion is controlled by intelligence. can you imagine an entity with ultimate intelligence killing someone? no i believe an entity with ultimate enlightenment could never commit wrong actions- or actions that they know would or could hurt another- by that capacity one’s actions of love or lack of love in your case of the brutal massacres- could only be based on intelligence and ignorance coupled with a hunger for happiness or self satisfaction that everyone shares- it is a fundamental urge that is apart of life
Is english your first language? I think some of our disagreements may be semantic.
yes english is my first language but my vocabulary is sometimes not large enough to explain my thoughts explicitly- you’re not the first to pick up on it
but i try to be very simple and clear in my explanations so that many people may understand- i was taught i should speak so that even a kinder gardener can understand me.
Ok. What I’m seeing is that you’re talking about categories or something. You’re saying that love is the biggest category. Like atoms are the smallest bits of matter and because of that that’s what everything’s made of, so like you’re now saying that atoms are the biggest category, and since love and atoms can’t both be the biggest, and being the biggest category is the most essential part of both of them, that they are the same. You also go on to make the same move with intelligence and beauty.
I’m sensing a bit of idealism, (in the philosophical sense), and because you mentioned aristotle, and used the word category, I’m gonna say that you’ve been introduced to metaphysics a little early.
Whether or not I can agree with what you’re saying, is it fair to say that I at least understand it?
Am I way off?
i dont think you quite see my statements- you see, once one sees that humans can do nothing other than show love- you begin to look at other things- such as animals- and you see that animals can only show love as well- and then you start to realize how can all these entities only show love- and you realize that all of these entities are made from and come from the same matter- all of the world we know (nature) is made of the same stuff- and then you notice that of all the matter in the world- we humans are the best formation of that material- we can create our own formations of material ie. computers, cars- etc but nothing can compare to the formation of material done by biology- and within biology- you can reach better and still better formations of matter- as the formations of matter increase in complexity so does the intelligence and the beauty of the entity- hence human beings are the smartest as well as most visually appealing entities we know- and then you look at how humans can only love and you say to yourself- well what are these humans made of- and we know that we are made of atoms- as is everything else- and then you say to yourself well how can these small atoms come together in such a way to produce an entity that loves- what is so special about an atom that when you put more and more of them together in a certain way that you get love- and then you realize that you dont get love by adding the atoms together in a special way because that doesnt really make sense and you realize that if you see love when you put atoms and more atoms together that there simply must be a small amount of love in each atom already as well as everything that makes up the atom and everything else rather than love just being created out of thin air- instead it is already there- and neccessary for existence itself
I’ll just have to disagree because putting philosophy aside for me, none of the statements are really warranted in any way. I could just the same say that you commit all the bad things you do because you’re programmed by evolution to eliminate competition and what sense of “love” you feel for yourself is only a side effect of this hatred of society. The tensile test I performed last week showed me no love as the interpretation of tension and failure as love would only be down to my unbearably flawed view of materials engineering.
Anyways, I really posted because of this:
Not to be mean, but I just found “kinder gardener” hilarious 
It sort of sterilizes the idea of love to claim that it is all there is.
I think I get where you’re coming from, at least I did a lot of meditation in the past. And congratulations if you actually feel it. But what is captivating about love for me is that it’s object is so specific.
All things are connected, and sometimes equally essential…Does equal mean identical??? In some senses yes… A dollar can equal 100 pennies… A dollar can stand for, and so, equal the whole economy…But no one with any thought would say everything is the equal of every other thing… As concepts, and forms, each is a form of relationship, and this is true of all forms, and that fact is the beginning of knowledge because it give people the means to rationally compare apples and oranges, or as in this case, love and intelligence…
first i would like to congratulate you on correcting my english- very great accomplishment- NOW going to your claims i will address in order, the immediate problems you’ve presented- first of all you do not need to put philosophy aside to figure whether a statement is warranted or not- secondly my statements are warranted but you have not asked me or do not understand why they are warranted- third if you are going to have a philosophical discussion you must at least pay attention to what the other person is saying instead of looking for flaws in their english- i did previously say that their is only love in this world and that “evil is not a force”- st thomas aquinas- and therefore there can only be love or lack of love, now you are either choosing to ignore that statement or you simply over looked that part- but it is essential since i now have to go back and explain it once more which is waisting time and stopping the forum from progressing into true light of discussion- but going back to your statement in order you then said “I could just the same say that you commit all the bad things you do…” - what do you mean by “bad” ?- do you mean lack of love -which would completely invalidate your argument or are you saying as i think you are- that evil is a force?- which at that point we would need to briefly venture into discussions of evil which i can easily disprove the existence of. fourth- to finish your quote you continued by saying , “…because you’re programmed by evolution to eliminate competition and what sense of “love” you feel for yourself is only a side effect of this hatred of society.” - the first problem i see with that statement (and there are many)- is your statement is implying that evolution is an entity- i think the best way to understand anything in life is to make it as simple as possible- and i think the simplest definition of evolution could be simply- the manipulation of matter- i think that’s safe enough and you are saying that evolution programmed matter as if it were around before matter was- but infact if matter were not around there would be nothing to evolve or be “programmed”-in fact the only reason evolution exists is because matter exists therefore the existence of matter can not be explained by evolution and so then we must find possible reasons on how it may be possible for matter to exist in the first place- not after it already exists as you are saying- and as i said since evolution can not be the reason for existence it seems like you are highly missing the point of my statements which state that existence is actually made of love and that you can look at intelligence as the same exact thing as love- if you ask yourself what intelligence is than you can see that it is existence itself as well- so you see they are all the same thing- i understand that none of these replies indicate that any of you truly understand what im saying but try to look at it like this- ask yourself what is intelligence?- you’ll think to yourself well it is our potential to learn- or umm maybe its what determines our actions or thoughts but no matter what, in the end, you know that intelligence has to do with the brain- we can all agree on that- and from that point you say well what determines’ one’s intelligence- and the only way to know what determines intelligence is to study the brain- and then from that point you say to yourself well what is the brain made of- and as you go further and further into the structure of the brain you see that the brain is made of- can you guess? -atoms!!!- its made of atoms as is everything else- or quarks or particles- or tissues- or cells- it doesn’t matter- all that matters is that this matter that makes up the brain which in turn determines EVERYTHING we do is made up of the SAME stuff that our ENTIRE world is made up of. and then you ask yourself- well why are humans different from EVERYTHING else that we see in this world since its made of the SAME stuff- and you come to the conclusion that we are different from everything else because we are the only entities that have self knowledge- that is,- we KNOW that we are alive and that we die- so on and so forth- and so we can come up with whats called abstract thoughts and we can learn from our memory far better than any other animal etc. etc. etc. if you think about it - its a world of a difference- that is, having just a brain that is smarter makes the biggest difference in the world- ie comparing a dog to a human being----there’s a VERY BIG difference in an animals life and a human beings life- the reason that difference is their is because of the brain- and so then we look to see why is there such a BIG difference between animals and humans- and you come to find out that the difference is because human brains are much more complex- but to make it even simpler- the human brain has a better formation of atoms than do any other animal and every formation of atoms determines the end result of the entity- ie. a rock does not have as great or i should say BEAUTIFUL a formation of atoms as a micro-organism that underwent transformation and that does not have as beautiful a formation of atoms as a eukaryote or something with a nucleus and so on- as you can see biology shows you that the more beautiful the formation of the structured entity is the more the entity is capable of doing or intelligent- once you understand that,- you want to study the entity that we know with the BEST formation of atoms and that would be of course the entity that is the most intelligent or can do the most -hence human beings- and once you study human beings you see that they can only show love- and then you can see that animals can only show love as well- but before i go too far- the reason you see that humans can only love is because everything we do is for our own satisfaction- no matter what we do the LEAST we can do is love ourselves- you can NEVER do ANYTHING less than love yourself- this means that love is inherent in our structure- that in turn means that since we are made from the SAME stuff that everything else is made of that everything else must have inherent love as well- or you can look at it as a necessary instinct that all existence must have in order to continue existing- you see humans are the only entities that kill themselves- this means that with intelligence comes self destruction- isn’t that funny- you’ll never see a dog trying to commit suicide- you’ll never see an atom spontaneously explode- if so it’s done through radiation at very slow rates- but the point is- we must abide by the same laws that the stuff (atoms) we’re made of abide by- NOW whats the best way to see the laws that atoms or anything subatomic must abide by? you can eat a tiny speck of sugar OR you can eat a huge stick of sugar- which one do you think will show you how sugar really tastes? same thing with atoms- you can study the smallest particle ever- or you can look at larger formations and even better choose the best of these large formations and to see how that large formation acts is to magnify the “taste” of the atoms. like i said- if you eat a huge stick of sugar and you see that it is very very sweet- is it not obvious that a tiny particle of sugar from that sugar stick must be at least a little sweet? if not then you’re saying that the sweetness does not come from the atoms but we know that it must because that is what it’s made of- if not then your saying the sweetness is created by something other than what the sugar stick is made of. and that’s a whole world of discussion if you believe that- but hopefully you do believe that the make up of the sugar cane is what determines its own taste. now if you are going to reply please think about your response and not mention things like “bad”-implying that evil is a force- because as i said that is a different discussion which i would be glad to have but do not make a claim for this discussion using terms that as i said are from a different discussion its not a fair argument and waists time. i hope this helps everyone that replied to better understand my thoughts- trust me i have over one hundred pages of thoughts on things of this nature and i have put a great amount of deep thought into all of this so please do not insult me with a reply you came up with off the top of your head- or pollute the forum with lampooning- that only shows your ignorance in behavior- for i am not a comedian and do not mean to entertain you- on that note i apologize in advance for any grammatical errors since its so important- i guess people in london make it their buisness to point out irrelevant errors of others to make themselves feel more relevant but that is not necessay- in fact it is mean- even though you say you dont mean to be mean- thats just a scapegoat so that you may deliver your insult 
--------with love Damien Redd
and to make it even easier- to show everyone why i believe existence, intelligence and love- (in this world only) - are all the same exact thing, i challenge anyone to show me a difference in any of those words and i will show you why it is not a difference
There are differences in their spellings.
hhhrrrRREEEEEE, Hrrrrumphfff. Pbbbrrrrhufff… 
if intelligence is not equal to beauty please state why- i believe their is an undeniable connection between intelligence and the appearance of the species
And what connection is that?
well to keep it simple it would be- “the more intelligent an entity is, the more visually appealing it will be”- basically if there were some extraterrestrial civilization more intelligent than human beings i believe that they most likely will be more visually appealing than humans- but this is really getting into a slightly different discussion. i have many reasons to support all my theories and if we get into other discussions or theories of mine i’d feel more comfortable naming them their own forum- know what i mean?
I’m still not understanding how intelligence = love.
It is because you missed a step…Intelligence=cookoo=Love…I own no monkeys…
Don’t forget: WE ARE ALL ONE!