Internal Battles

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
1

What makes will?

It strikes me that a person is only as mentally and emotionally (and physically, in some cases) strong as that person chooses to be. Obviously, there are going to be some mental limitations, but for the time being, I want to discuss only the emotional aspects of internal strength.

What makes no sense to me is people that have given up, or speak as though they have given up. I’m not referring to nihilists exclusively, I also mean those people that seem as though they have hope for certain outcomes but have given up on actually pursuing the outcomes.

I think general happiness is a pretty good indicator of internal strength. I imagine those that are miserable are only so by way of choosing to be miserable while those that are happy are so because they choose to be happy. There are many people that claim it is impossible for one to change the way that he/she thinks, but I tend to disagree.

I believe that the overall question comes down to an individual’s will power. I believe that in order for a person to happy he or she must willfully decide that he/she is going to be a happy person and not let anything stand in the way of that.

Controlling your controllables is a big player in this game, and of course, that takes a certain level of stoicism. We can be stoic about that which we cannot control, I don’t mean stoic to the point of complete apathy, but I mean stoic to the point that we will not let something that is beyond our control affect our emotions to too great an extent. That does not necessarily mean that we cannot allow something beyond our control to affect us mentally, because there are many things out of an individual’s control that still warrant thought and consideration.

By controlling your controllables I mean exercising one’s own willpower to the extent that a person can say to his/her self, “This is something that I can handle and am on top of. This is an area of my life where personal decisions that I make will influence the outcome.” I believe that nihilists and other people that are generally unhappy are focusing too much on those things that cannot be controlled or altered on the level of the individual and as a result, are not focusing on those things within the realm of control.

I believe that decision-making is the only thing that needs to be employed for an individual of this nature to counter the way they think. They simply need to do something, not try to do something ro think about doing something, just do it. Nike time.

For some people, I suppose a necessity is a kick in the ass to get them started, some people need a shoulder to cry on before they decide to take control, and some people are motivated by being told that they cannot do something, then they find a way to do it. All of those people are not motivated by something as simple as desire, but they could be with enough willpower.

If you will yourself to be happy and make whatever necessary changes need to be made to become happy, then you will become happy. In my experience it really is that simple.

Again, the question, what makes will? Becuase will seems to clearly be the answer.

2

It is a feature of a belief in the ‘appearances’ presented by ‘ego/pride/vanity/thought’. It is a vanity; it ‘feels’ good to be a ‘god’!

3

Let it feel good, then. Certainly a person who feels like a, “god,” can control his/her own happiness.

But, my real question is what determines our level of willpower?

4

Obviously not… unless that ‘happiness’ depends on that egoic feeling. There is still no ‘will’ and people cannot ‘will’ themselves into 'happiness. What nonsense…

I’ll help you out; level of ‘willpower’ = 0
(Do the math, next time a loved one dies, will yourself to be happy, blissful, joyful…)
Level of egoic feelings of ‘willpower’ = continuum (bell curve) When circumstances happen to coincide, we feel all responsible and godlike, in control, the universe is finally bending to my ‘will’.
When circunstances do not coincide, what ‘you’ (generic) are not in denial about, ‘you’ find excuses and ‘theories’ to dismiss the great majority of times that circumstances do not happen to be in accord with your imaginary ‘willpower’ (blow to the ego must be ameliorated).

The perceived level of ‘willpower’ is equal to the quantity of circumstance happening in accord with ‘desires’. Ego takes credit for ‘happenstance’!

5

Nonsense? The capacity for personal choice is nonsense, no, it’s called accountability. We are as accountable for the way we feel as we are for our own actions.

That is what I do when a loved one dies. Death is the most inevitable part of life, to live you must die, what reason is there to be saddened by it. You remember a person fondly, think of the good times but do not dwell too much on the fact that those good times will never happen again and you will be fine. Also, when a person dies it is all the more reason to celebrate those still living, become closer with the people that remain and you will become happier.

I am not trying to insinuate that we can be happy 100% of the time, and I am not trying to insinuate that we do not have temporary emotional reactions (sadness, guilt, hate) now that would be nonsense. What I am saying is that we control our own happiness in the overall sense and that requires willpower. At first, maybe you fake it, but eventually you will really feel happy.

Again, control your controllables. If it is completely beyond my control, then the time has come to attempt emotional stoicism regarding that specific matter. If the matter is within my control, then I bend it to fit my desires.

Some people do make excuses for an occurence regarding a situation where they may have had control, that is known as a defense mechanism, of course. However, there are things that happen beyond an individual’s control in which case it is not an excuse.

6

Yes, I understand the Perspective. I simply don’t share it.

I think that you would like to believe that you are being honest in that statement.
Life and death are NOT ‘reasonable’ things!
It appears that, perhaps, you have not had anyone close to you die. You also seem to be intellectualizing an affair of the heart.

No one goes skipping merrily along when a loved one dies. Or, perhaps you have not experienced such closeness, such a state of empathic compassion with ‘another’ (or yourself?) Young? Sadness and grief are as much a feature of the human spectrum as any other feeling; joy, bliss, happiness, insecurity… They appear and disappear and appear again.
But, I don’t believe what you are saying is all actual factual.

Soooo, what you are saying is that only ‘weak-willied’ people are ever unhappy?

So, what would be the dividing line, do you think, between Heaven and Hell? Where would it be? Why? Why would it, why should it be that you can ‘control’ this and that but that you can’t ‘control’ that and the other? Is one thing made of different stuff than another? Like magnets; some stuff is attracted to your ‘willpower’ (you are getting sleeeeeepyyyyy) and other stuff (blonds and gold) are repelled or immune to your ‘willie-power’? Need a battery in the ol’ mojo? What is preventing you from controlling all of existence? Why?

(am I detecting a ‘control’ issue here? all feelings pass; even feelings of powerlessness…
“By the time you’re done eating this cookie, you’ll feel right as rain!” The Oracle in ‘The Matrix’)

7

Emotions are extremely difficult to control. Emotions vs. Logic? In the moment emotions always win. So you say you can have a loved one die and not feel pain? Here are moments when emotions take over:

Take a man and throw a beautiful naked women in front of him. Tell him to look at her objectively with no emotions involved. Let’s just say he’s not going to notice her hair first.

Have a man go into a bar. Force him to have a conversation with random women. 99% of guys would be debilitated by this. Most guys freeze up and their mind goes blank. Approaching groups of random strangers (with a mix of guys and girls with the intent of obtaining a date) will cause indivduals to sweat profusely and to literally freeze up with anxiety.

It’s in our DNA to be more afraid of FEAR than to desire pleasure. Many advertisers relish in this fact.

What causes individuals into unhappiness?

Feelings of defeat and loss of hope. This can be triggered in animals and humans.

Take a mouse and throw it in a bucket of cold water. It’ll fight to survive but eventually it’ll just give up. This is a depression test. See how long the animal fights for. Also the tail test where the hold the mouse up by it’s tail.

Take a mouse and separate it from it’s mother. Even a few hours a day will cause the mouse to be more sensitive to depression.

If you take one animal and put it in a cage with a larger animal. The smaller animal will lose a few fights. And after several times, the smaller one begins to get depression. In humans when we feel defeat and helplessness - depression and unhappiness is triggered and we easily give up on life. We see no way out.

You can also give an animal constant stress. Do that every day and the animal will go bonkers with anxiety and depression.

So why are individuals unhappy - usually when they are defeated and feel like there is no coming back. That it is hopeless. Look at Al Gore when he lost the election he ballooned up by like 100 lbs. Depressed individuals feel hopeless.

8

This is true, but there be blissful individuals who have no ‘hope’ (perhaps because of it?). I feel no ‘hope’. What is, is, and is fine with me. When I’m feeling sad, I’m sad while ‘hopeless’. When feeling wondrous, joyful, etc… there is still no ‘hope’ involved.
Just to expand on your comment.
Nice post.
Peace

9

Pavlovianmodel146: “We are as accountable for the way we feel as we are for our own actions”

Nameless: “Yes, I understand the Perspective. I simply don’t share it.”

Fair enough.

Nameless: “It appears that, perhaps, you have not had anyone close to you die. You also seem to be intellectualizing an affair of the heart.”

Intellectualizing an affair of the heart? Does the mind not control the heart, do we not feel our emotions because of our mind? And if you mean the literal heart, does it not operate according to the orders of the mind? When you break it down all of our functions are intellectual, or at least controlled by the mind.

Nameless: “No one goes skipping merrily along when a loved one dies. Or, perhaps you have not experienced such closeness, such a state of empathic compassion with ‘another’ (or yourself?) Young? Sadness and grief are as much a feature of the human spectrum as any other feeling; joy, bliss, happiness, insecurity… They appear and disappear and appear again.
But, I don’t believe what you are saying is all actual factual.”

That’s a fair point, but I did say that we can be temporarily saddened by such events, but a mere death should not have such a great impact on overall happiness. Just for the record a Grandfather that was my best friend died, and two really good friends from my youth died, both suicides. You can allow death to have an affect on your entire life, or you can choose to let the dead bury the dead and live with the living.

Nameless: “Soooo, what you are saying is that only ‘weak-willied’ people are ever unhappy?”

Again, I speak of happiness in the overall sense, of course everyone is subject to temporary bouts of unhappiness. But in that overall sense, yes, either weak willed people or strong willed people (who do not choose to be happy) are unhappy.

Nameless: “So, what would be the dividing line, do you think, between Heaven and Hell? Where would it be? Why? Why would it, why should it be that you can ‘control’ this and that but that you can’t ‘control’ that and the other? Is one thing made of different stuff than another? Like magnets; some stuff is attracted to your ‘willpower’ (you are getting sleeeeeepyyyyy) and other stuff (blonds and gold) are repelled or immune to your ‘willie-power’? Need a battery in the ol’ mojo? What is preventing you from controlling all of existence? Why?”

What is preventing me from controlling all existence? The fact that I am a human. It snows, I can’t control that. Someone dies and I am not a doctor, I can’t control that. I need to make emotional, and monetary progress in my life, that I can control.

10

One of the major flaws of man are our inner conflicts, it seems we all are self conflicting in many ways. Many of us will like to dismiss this because we wouldn’t want to see ourselves as such illogical beings… but inside it seems we are, no matter what we want to convey. It seems logic isn’t enough to sort out are desires or the human brain isn’t capable of processing our desires to clear cut decisions consistently. These are the flaws of mankind that hinder us.

11

These are two different questions. No, the ‘mind’ does not control the ‘heart’. If you are being literal here and do not understand my implications, the metaphor, I despair any fruitfulness from continuing. And I don’t mean literal ‘fruit’.
So, no, the affairs of the ‘mind’ (intellect, thoughts/ego) do not ‘control’ the affairs of the ‘heart’ (emotional, psychological, intuitional).
We do not, either, feel our emotions because of our ‘mind’ (‘thoughts’). We ‘feel’ (heart) and then we ‘think’ (mind) about it. Understand where i’m comming from?

Man is not a rational creature. Intellectual thoughts are a hobby at best. Very few of our ‘functions’ are intellectually operated. Most are autonomic and remote control functions of our psychological processes. ‘Thought’ (intellect) is only one feature of the brain.

Again, your use of the word “should” and “mere” denotes your lack of experience in the matter. Time will take care of that, broaden youPerspective some. There is no ‘should’, there is only is.

Whats with the statistical analysis of feelings? Why must there be “happiness in the overall sense”? Why not ‘sadness’ in the overall sense? It’s another valid feeling that humans have, like ‘happiness’. They all come and go. We are what we are at the moment. What’s with the fantasy to be happy all the time? Wouldn’t that be a rather stunted view of the totality of being human?
“Seeking happiness for its own sake is like seeking victory without war!”

Just like people are subject to temporary bouts of any other ‘feeling’.

Oh, so young… But that is not your ‘fault’ (or under your ‘control’). Time will make what I’m saying ‘clear’.

Nameless: “So, what would be the dividing line, do you think, between Heaven and Hell? Where would it be? Why? Why would it, why should it be that you can ‘control’ this and that but that you can’t ‘control’ that and the other? Is one thing made of different stuff than another? Like magnets; some stuff is attracted to your ‘willpower’ (you are getting sleeeeeepyyyyy) and other stuff (blonds and gold) are repelled or immune to your ‘willie-power’? Need a battery in the ol’ mojo? What is preventing you from controlling all of existence? Why?”

And best of luck with that, I’m sure that it will all work out.
See you around…
Peace

12

Nameless: “These are two different questions. No, the ‘mind’ does not control the ‘heart’. If you are being literal here and do not understand my implications, the metaphor, I despair any fruitfulness from continuing. And I don’t mean literal ‘fruit’.
So, no, the affairs of the ‘mind’ (intellect, thoughts/ego) do not ‘control’ the affairs of the ‘heart’ (emotional, psychological, intuitional).
We do not, either, feel our emotions because of our ‘mind’ (‘thoughts’). We ‘feel’ (heart) and then we ‘think’ (mind) about it. Understand where i’m comming from?”

Our emotions are a thought, anything that we feel is a thought! How can you say that we feel something independently of our mind being used? The mind must be used or we would be incapable of expressing our feelings, or understanding a feeling for what it is. I think that you may simply be trying to say that what we, “feel,” is based on sub-conscious thought while what we, “think,” is based on conscious thought, and I would agree with you on that point. However, the sub-conscious mind is not an idiot, it makes a decision independent of the conscious mind that an individual feel a certain way about something, it does not feel just for the sake of feeling.

Nameless: “Again, your use of the word “should” and “mere” denotes your lack of experience in the matter. Time will take care of that, broaden youPerspective some. There is no ‘should’, there is only is.”

Mere may have been a bad word, but it does seem a silly reason to let your entire life be affected, unless resurrection is invented and a person is upset because they can not afford to have a loved one resurrected.

My use of the word, “should,” on the other hand is just illustrative of open-mindedness, it is a word that I use to illustrate the fact that there are infinite other possibilities outside of what I am stating or what my viewpoint is.

Nameless: Whats with the statistical analysis of feelings? Why must there be “happiness in the overall sense”? Why not ‘sadness’ in the overall sense? It’s another valid feeling that humans have, like ‘happiness’. They all come and go. We are what we are at the moment. What’s with the fantasy to be happy all the time? Wouldn’t that be a rather stunted view of the totality of being human?
“Seeking happiness for its own sake is like seeking victory without war!”

Of course, there can be sadness in the overall sense. If an individual has periods of happiness (and other emotions) but are generally sad, then they are sad in the overall sense. If you have spent a simple majority of your time on Earth being sad, then you have been sad in the overall sense. If you spend a simple majority of your time on Earth being happy, then overall you have been happy. Everyone is a statistic, by the way, in one way or another everything we are and everything we do are statistics, just not necessarily recorded/documented ones.


Nameless: “Oh, so young… But that is not your ‘fault’ (or under your ‘control’). Time will make what I’m saying ‘clear’.”

That was rude, why be condescending about it?

13

Not so, unless you have a private definition of ‘thought’.
A ‘feeling’, which seems to be related somehow to ‘emotion’, is not a ‘thought’, it is a ‘sensed’ experience, a ‘direct perception of a state of being’ rather than a ‘thought’ about a ‘direct perception’.

You are using too many terms interchangeably that are not, for me, interchangeable. Is ‘mind’ = ‘thoughts’? Is ‘emotion’ = ‘feelings’? Is ‘mind’ = ‘feelings’? I do not find these words all interchangeable. There is too much Perspective involved.

[i]“The function of our mind is as a perceiver, but our thoughts find their origin in the memories of the mind’s perceptions.”

“The true nature of mind is to perceive in receptive awareness.”[/i]

That doesn’t sound like ‘thinking’ to me.

The mind must be used or we would be incapable of expressing our feelings, or understanding a feeling for what it is.
You can try to intellectualize all of life, but oftentimes, ‘reality’ happens.
How simply does an infant, incapable of ‘thought’, express his ‘feelings’, his ‘needs’, his ‘happiness’, his 'contentness, his ‘pain’, hmmmm? Pretty ‘autonomic’ stuff. Hardwiring. ‘Thoughts’ are a specific ‘tool’ for specific functions. Thats all, not the be all and end all of tools for the examination of the momentary state in which we find ourselves.

And fairy dust?

An arbitrary and spurious statement. Cannot be any evidence or experience of us knowing, consciously, of some ‘decision’ being made of which we cannot be ‘conscious’. Yours is an unsupportable assertion.

That is just so sad that I cant even respond. What/who must you be to see your brothers and sisters like that, your mother and father?
Every single ‘soul’ that perceives in existence is unique. Even you. Seeing people as ‘statistics’ is tantamount to racism, as far as I can see.

I was not being condescending to you. I was speaking compassionately to you as I would any of my sons. Sometimes, there are things/understandings that only years can open up some Perspective. That’s ‘my’ experience, anyway.!
I can understand you seeing it like that, but please be assured that was never my intent to cause you that ‘feeling’. *__-
Peace

14

[b]

Nameless: “An arbitrary and spurious statement. Cannot be any evidence or experience of us knowing, consciously, of some ‘decision’ being made of which we cannot be ‘conscious’. Yours is an unsupportable assertion.”[/b]

I consciously know that parts of my mind that I do not control function automatically to make my heart beat, however, I do not consciously make my heart beat.

Nameless: “That is just so sad that I cant even respond. What/who must you be to see your brothers and sisters like that, your mother and father?
Every single ‘soul’ that perceives in existence is unique. Even you. Seeing people as ‘statistics’ is tantamount to racism, as far as I can see.”

My Mother:

Age: 45
Caucasian Non-Hispanic
Smoker
Annual Individual Income: $29,000
Annual Household Income: $66,000
Married Twice
Divorced Once
Involved in two non-fatal car accidents
Had one miscarriage

I could go on.

All of these things are statistics, everything that we do/see/happens to us/ is a statistic. It is a simple fact, it in no way detracts from our quality of life.

Nameless: “I can understand you seeing it like that, but please be assured that was never my intent to cause you that ‘feeling’.”

(Smiles) I did not feel that you were being condescending, I thought you were being condescending.

EDIT: Regarding the previous portions of our conversation, I decided it best if we drop everything except for what is stated above. Our perspective of terms and definitions are entirely seperate from one another, we would have to have lengthly conversations just to come to terms on what we have been meaning when we use this word or that word.

15

Should’ve listened to your ‘feelings/gut’! Your thoughts misled you.*__-

Even though we are different Perspectives, my friend, ‘your’s’ is no ‘lesser’ than ‘this one’ in the grand scheme; both are equally necessary features of the complete tapestry of existence!
Later
Peace

16

Seems pretty childish to me. Pretty sentimental and optimistic. Making sugary comments like that won’t make a difference to your life of pain.

Behave yourself!