IQ Is not complete crap. It’s not perfect, but it is not illusory.
I don’t know why you would say something like that.
If the reading was naturally and truly good for the mind, in and of itself, then it would always produce wisdom.
You describe reading as only good when done in a certain way, by a certain type of person.
That is why I equate the philosopher’s quality to genes in many ways. Not in all ways, but in many ways.
It requires development and effort, but some people will never be a good musician, for example,
whereas some people are born to be a great musician. That is how art works. You need to develop it,
but it can only develop in certain types of people, due to their situation and how they are.
This principal of art, is also a principal of “being” and personality.
Rainman has no downsides? He can’t function outside of his home without having someone with him, he has no social skills, he basically needs to be told how to interact with people well. Let’s not take an analogy beyond the point of reason. Everything has a downside. Aside from Chuck Norris, but then Chuck is Chuck.
IQ is a joke, it has improved year on year since the it was first used. Unless you really think people are more intelligent than 10,20,30 etc years ago you’re going to be disappointed. The people who made the test said it was not meant to test intelligence but to highlight performance in education in the West, and more importantly show those who may be bad at it, why some people still believe it does is kinda weird. It tests your ability in academia as it was meant as it does. IF you really truly believe there is any correlation with IQ and intelligence that closely correlates with it, well then deduct 10 points from any test that might have a hope in hell of testing your intelligence.
It’s not like I don’t have a high IQ by the way, I do, very high, but I would noy wipe my ass on an IQ test, it is nothing to do with intelligence. Genius, how can you measure creativity, a boy who has perfect pitch at the age of 4, writes music at the age of five and would score badly on any IQ test. It’s a joke test, a means to inflate the egos of those who think a number defines them.
IQ tests elitist nonsense meant to overinflate the worth of the truly stupid because they believe that in a very small area of intelligence measuring high makes anyone care. Creativity, is king, the IQ test has no more ability to test creativity than the driving test, tests your ability to be a world champion in either the Nascar races or Formula 1, the most important facet of intelligence, the ability to solve problems without having to rely on education per se, the ability to think for yourself and beyond yourself? I wouldn’t trust a man or woman who thought the test meant anything, any more than I would trust an idiot. Any more than I would look at a SAT test and think just because you passed it with a high score it meant you meant anything to the world beyond university. If you are smart at all, you do not need a test to tell you you are. If you do perhaps you know you really aren’t, and are trying too hard to appear smart.
Elitism in action, you think a number defines a man, I think it defines a bad thinker and a bad mathematician. And what’s more I think it robs you every day until you die.
Good luck with that.
My IQ is higher than most, perhaps higher than more than 1 in a million, my intelligence though is merely adequate at the best of times. I lack those skills that I wish I had, musical talent, the ablity to write books, an ability to talk without being hated because I don’t have that emotional quotient. All the things that actually matter.
Live your life, and let it be full but if you really believe an IQ test means anything it will be disappointing. Of course we disagree once again I failed to convince someone that there is more to life than a scoreboard, and your egotistical need to be better than everyone else. I seem really bad at explaining just how wrong it is judge by numbers, and particularly numbers that mean nothing.
You think I’m an elitist? That only made me laugh.
Let me tell you something, a truly elite being will never cause harm towards the majority of beings, and will be much less harmful to nature than a common or even a relatively good person. Also it can be that a large quantity of medium or low quality individuals have more power and goodness than a single powerful individual. In collectivism, we judge and focus on the whole, and seek to improve the whole. Collectivism … And when I mention it, people either think of the borg or juche socialism. Considering anything as inferior is too petty an idea for an elevated mind. An elevated mind would hold like infinite value for everyone and everything, but not going soft either. I don’t think a number defines a man, and I have admitted that IQ tests are imperfect, but an IQ test is an attempt at measuring our mind. A mind is hard to properly judge or understand, but I try to appreciate an effort towards this, even if it is not a perfected effort. At least they tried. They had good intentions, and they learned some things.
?Yeah I do if you believe the IQ test measures something like intellect you are not just an elitist you are clearly not on the same planet as everyone else in the field of psychology, Like I say good luck with that. It will serve you well to be ignorant I expect.
An IQ test is an attempt to measure how well you will do in Western education, the inventors say this everyone in the field says this. If you would call Mozart an idiot because at school he was a dunce, I would call you an idiot.
Children, it’s all numbers these days how how did you score, how high? Who the fuck cares.
They learnt nothing, because the people who designed the test told them what it was for and they ignored them and just ploughed on regardless. Don’t laud retards who believe intelligence is measured by IQ, they just didn’t listen. That is the definition of an idiot. No one at any time tried to say the IQ test measure intelligence and yet retards believe it does. It’s disheartening to see the myth promulgated by yet another generation of idiots.
Even though you seem to think IQ tests are crap, you do seem to believe that things such as creativity exist sometimes in a large degree in some types of people, whereas some people are only slightly creative. Creativity is a wonderful thing. But the mind has all sorts of aspects to it. Every now and then the soul modifies genes or cells, and there is a sort of spiritual intelligence, which can have so many different and unusual qualities. Then there is the size of each region of the brain, as the brain has many parts and each part is assigned to a certain purpose. Then there is the issue of which parts of the brain are used and which parts are not. Then there is the genes, which for example, can greatly effect intelligence, as seen in someone born mentally handicapped. IQ does not measure all of this, but I wasn’t saying it did. All I am saying is that the word “IQ” has meaning, to me. And I try to use it to communicate. If you can’t see passed the words to the meanings, then we are not having a successful conversation. And right now it doesn’t look successful to me. Especially after I tried to clearly describe why I’m not an elitist.
You talk about elevated minds? Elevated to what? Philosophy is often self-referential, so it would be essentially the same thing (the same game) but on a different level. Otherwise you may get to a point where you’d have to redefine philosophy to fit the minds of your super savants, but I can’t even imagine how that may go about.
Dan~, While genetics play a large part in mental acuity, there’s more to intelligence than that. Just as there’s more to philosophy than pure thought. So my first question is what, in your mind, comprises an elite philosopher?
I know I’m not one–by some standards, I don’t even count as a philosopher at all. I don’t always know the categories or nomenclature and I often struggle with the science of modern philosophy–maths, clinical psychology, genetics, biology, neuroscience, et al. In short, I don’t know how to “do” philosophy. Does that mean I’m part of the “human existential crisis of foolishness?” I don’t think so–I don’t read books from the NYT best seller lists and I descend from some pretty intelligent ancestry.
I also sometimes wonder if any ‘modern’ philosophers, have had any totally original thoughts.
That is a good question.
An elite philosopher understands and upholds the finest philosophies. He finds much value and meaning in everything. Good philosophy is all about meanings and values. Without insight, a thing will have much less meaning to it. The more you understand something, the more meaning you will see in it. Also value is similar to meaning, but it has to do with worth. An elite philosopher will bless many things with great worth, and be very motivated and motivational due to this characteristic. An elite philosopher lives in clarity. He also will be good and fast-learning with the other arts, of and in life.
You don’t seem foolish to me. Maybe you have some sort of power which is hard to notice. Maybe you do not even notice it. Most people have at least a few gifts though.
Hardly anything is totally original. I happen to believe that some of the oldest cultures on earth happened to receive their beliefs from some sort of benevolent alien visitors which came to earth for a short time. Things like the soul and magic, I don’t think people learned it by accident or on their own.
LOL! Thanks, Dan~. Just don’t encourage me, hee hee.
I think I have some gifts. I’m empathic, intuitive, and (despite any rumors–not that I know of any) I’m intelligent and have a sense of humor. Do I find value in things? I hope so. Sometimes I struggle with what I think of as moral issues. Right now, I’m trying to think of a way to write to a friend who’s chosen to forgo any more cancer treatment. Think about it. I honor her choice. She’d rather live in pain for however long she has left than face possible months of painful struggle fighting for something she’ll never have again. I admire her strength and her realistic approach.
It does make it damned hard to write to her, though.
Sometimes you can’t always live your philosophy to the letter–banal as that sounds–ergo, I’m not a philosopher nor do I “do” philosophy if, to “do” philosophy means to live it.
Say no more then we agree, the IQ test does not measure the most important faculty of either intelligence or genius. End of story.
You are not your SAT test or your IQ test or your COG test, you are a human being. What you can memorise and hence learn to do, has a bearing on intelligence but even an idiot can spend 365 days a year memorising facts practising at spacial awareness, and sequential maths problems, and linguistic skills, but if he cannot use information creatively it doesn’t matter if he or she has a perfect score on any current test that broadly tries to measure “intelligence” they are still a moron.
Everyone can be creative if they try hard enough, the brain is a muscle not a block of stone. Although I would argue that is not always the case. Everyone cannot be amazing at maths necessarily. Everyone cannot have an IQ of over 140. Hell Feynman is widely noted as having an IQ of 121, and yet being one of the greatest minds of the 20th century in physics. How the hell does a person who is merely highly intelligent blow away the geniuses of physics in his time by being so mediocre in an IQ test. It’s not hard to imagine why. In fact his biography will tell you why, he was told by his father that you can do anything with the most important tool you have if you choose to use it well. he became a maths genius, a physics genius and an artist. And also despite having a real low skill in linguistics on his IQ test, he became one of the most adept minds at conveying physics to the people in a way they could easily understand. What he had was an insatiable drive to learn and to better himself, not an insatiable drive to limit people by placing them in boxes.
Ok no question is ever going to be perfect to test creativity but you can test lateral thinking skills over logical skills:
There are six eggs in the basket. Six people each take one of the eggs. How can it be that one egg is left in the basket?
The famous ‘Penny Black’, the world’s first postage stamp, was introduced in England in 1840. The idea of postage stamps was a great success and was taken up worldwide. Yet the ‘Penny Black’ was in use for only one year before it was replaced by the ‘Penny Red’. Why?
These at least require you don’t regurgitate from memory what you learnt in school. They do not test creativity, but they are 1 million times better than the questions on a standardised IQ test. Until we have an ability to test what is pivotal to intelligence all we have is reputation, some people are just fucking amazing, we call them geniuses because they can know what we know, and solve problems we wouldn’t have a hope in hell of ever attempting, hence science and thought and reason marches on, not to the tune of the rote memoriser but, the man or woman who can change a paradigm no one else could. not to the base sounding tune of a child’s scoreboard but an adults ability to judge worth without mad skills.
