http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_on_re_eu/ireland_eu_referendum
Gives me hope that common humans can make decisions that affect change. Good for Ireland! I raise a beer in salute to the people that made their voices heard loud and clear. The treaty sounds like it would have cut Irelands common person off at the knees independence wise. Is the EU treaty worth ratifying even though it would have to be done illegally now?
It didn’t stop the previous four or five treaties from being ratified. They really couldn’t give a toss what we think - if they can’t get this one through, they’ll just invent another that does the same thing.
Don’t you wish you could get a job that pays so well. You get to screw people all day and they pay you for it. You keep a facade of dignity you have some power over the people. The average person pays you while you trample all over them. No labor no thinking and the money rolls in… Why does prostitution and politician have the same job descriptions? 
From current maneuverings it looks like you’re dead right.
However both left and right campaigns against this treaty did tap into something. That something is an absolute alienation/disconnect from “the establishment” both in Europe and in Dublin.
This is an EU wide phenomenon- as poll after poll indicates and the Irish are just reflecting it in being the only country that had a popular referendum on the matter.
Even more interestingly this seems to be the one thing that the eurocrats don’t want to deal with on any level. Already they are intimating that a completely unchanged treaty is going to be re-pitched for another referendum!
This Mugabe style democrcay is likely to get them an even higher no vote!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe
As to the treaty itself I heard some one on the Yes side admit that the reason they couldn’t explain it is that it is fundamentally inexplicable. Its basically hundreds of amendments to exiting treaties right back to the treaty of Rome in the 1950s.
Actually any of you post structuralists might get a kick out of analysising it as a text!
It is (deliberately I reckon) designed to be utterly incomprehensible.
No one actually understands what the legal and democratic implications are!
And for the terminally curious here it is!
libertas.org/downloads/Conso … iendly.pdf
(thats the so called reader friendly version - enjoyable read eh!?)
kpx
So what do the Eurocrats get out of this whole treaty mess?
Well in theory - Faster integration - especially how fast money moves - tighter border controls for everything that isn’t money (they don’t don’t want too much people movement especially coming in from Africa) - greater centralisation - and (some) more military integration.
Ultimately a sort of Uniited States of Europe I reckon.
This is the theory - its what they tried to achieve by drawing up a European constitution - but that was kicked back by France and Holand.
In Practice - the Lisbon teaty retreats a bit from the constitution - (no flag or anthem - so sad!) - and like I said its actually so complex and contradictory - that if implemented - it might not even get them what they want!
One of the ways its been sold is to make Europe a strong bloc to stand up to your great country kriswest!
kp
Well I kind of figured it had something to do with US and or China. And it makes perfect sense to do so. Both China and US are not exactly mentally stable.
Now the people movement cracks me up. What tactics do they wish to implement? North korea style, US style or something more hideous or in between?
Dunno - the ways capitalism/state capitalism is developing there may soon be very little difference - personally I think the whole idea of individual freedom should be the property of the left! - anyhow thats an argument that could on and on…
Here’s what Sinn Fein (one component of that group) were proposing - most of it seems fairly reasonable - very few references to North Korea i can see. In fact you might find it closer to the libertarian right politics beloved of many on this board 
[i]Our position is that Lisbon is dead; the ratification process should stop; there can be no re-run of the referendum here; we need a new treaty; any new treaty must be ratified by all member states; and we are encouraging all groups and individuals to participate in the debate about the contents of that treaty. Todays submission is our initial contribution to that debate.
Today Sinn Fein submitted to the Irish government a detailed position paper outlining proposed changes to the Lisbon Treaty. Among these changes we are arguing for:
The retention of a permanent Commissioner for all member states
The retention of the Nice Treaty formulae for qualified majority voting
The removal of all 8 self-amending articles including the simplified revision procedure in Article 48
The removal of Article 46a giving the EU a single legal personality
A strengthened protocol on the role of member state parliaments
A significantly expanded protocol on the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality including the aims and values of the EU
Substantial amendments to aspects of the Common Foreign and Security Policy
Substantial amendments to the section of Common Defence and Security Policy
A new protocol on neutrality
A strengthened social clause
A substantially revised protocol on vital public services
Amendments to articles dealing with public services and state aid
The inclusion of the European Trade Union Confederation Social Progress Clause to protect workers rights
A protocol on Irish tax sovereignty
Substantial amendments on Article 188 dealing with international trade agreements including a cast iron veto on mixed World Trade Organisation agreements
A new protocol ending Irelands participation in the European Atomic Energy Community
A series of amendments to Articles 10 and 188 promoting the needs of the developing world in the context of international trade
Sinn Fein’s agenda for the future of the EU is much broader and deeper than this list of demands. These are, in our opinion, modest and achievable. They represent both the detail of the better deal we argued for during the referendum campaign and what we believe to be the minimum changes required for any new treaty to be acceptable to the electorate.
Of course the government will say that this list is too ambitious, too detailed and undeliverable. However already we are hearing from a range of voices across the EU, in governments, opposition parties and social movements, supporting some or all of the above. Smaller member states are interested in our proposals on the Commission and Council. Trade unions and social movements are supportive of our position on workers rights and public services. And peace organisations and anti-war movements are ready to mobilise on those issues that resonate with them.
[/i]
What a time to be living in, this is too cool in many ways. We get to see a vital part of human history forming. Bad or good this treaty will create world change. make note of this also; If/when the treaty passes there will be future ammendments to it. For some reason the original is never good enough. The US politicians brutalize our constitution on a yearly basis and have done so since its birth. I have no doubt the treaty will get the same loving political treatment. 
Well actually the latest news is that they are going to feed it back to us next Spring in the exact same form!
Let me quote you the nice tongue in cheek headline from one of the more decent mainstream Sunday rags rags (seems to pretty much sum it up)
Of course you poke a formally colonized nation with this sorta rhetoric you’ll only get one answer (the one that isn’t yes!)
kp
Too true. And it has nothing to do with the Irish being born to have wee li’l fights now and then,eh? I mean such a proposal wouldn’t be waving a red flag deliberately now would it?
i dunno I think we got a bit complacent during the celtic tiger - maybe its time to get the dukes up again
Just make sure you all don’t spill the brews while you are duking it out. That would be just criminal. You probably ought to drink them first.
LOL so go the prospective new powers of the europarliament.
There’s quite an interesting talk on the Lisbon Treaty and the Irish ‘No’ vote by Richard Boyd Barrett over here.
In short, it’s a neoliberal treaty paving the way for further privatisation of healthcare, education and other public services, greater militarization for Europe, and of course increasing the democractic deficit by granting even more powers to the European Commission, the only body which can propose legislation and which is wholly unelected. Nice work Ireland!
Regards,
Tommy