# Is 1 = 0.999... ? Really?
**URL:** https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360
**Category:** Science, Technology, and Math
**Created:** [June 18, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360 "2016-06-18T00:24:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 53
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1041 "2017-06-16T23:55:19Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > First, math is the abstraction of space and time.
>
> It is not.
>
> Mathematics can be used to model time and space.
Intetesting… what does mathematics model without time and space? Thoughts are discrete … what does math model without thought?
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1042 "2017-06-17T00:01:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Intetesting… what does mathematics model without time and space? Thoughts are discrete … what does math model without thought?
You’re confusing space and time and thoughts about space and time - reality and representations of reality.
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1043 "2017-06-17T00:15:06Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Intetesting… what does mathematics model without time and space? Thoughts are discrete … what does math model without thought?
>
> You’re confusing space and time and thoughts about space and time - reality and representations of reality.
So… you’re saying that math is just a representation of reality and not reality proper??
I have a question for this pocket of exploring these concepts…
What do you think moves faster … thought or light?
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1044 "2017-06-17T00:18:36Z")
Light moves in space. Does thought move in space? From where to where?
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1045 "2017-06-17T00:22:57Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> Light moves in space. Does thought move in space? From where to where?
Technically it’s a trick question… thought can make light move faster… thought can traverse all space and time much faster than light, practically speaking… you can talk to embodied beings in their state that was trillions upon trillions of light years ago
Or even what they are now… thought moves faster than anything in existence
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1046 "2017-06-17T00:28:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Technically it’s a trick question… thought can make light move faster… thought can traverse all space and time much faster than light, practically speaking… you can talk to embodied beings in their state that was trillions upon trillions of light years ago
> Or even what they are now… thought moves faster than anything in existence
Okey-dokey
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1047 "2017-06-17T00:32:22Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Technically it’s a trick question… thought can make light move faster… thought can traverse all space and time much faster than light, practically speaking… you can talk to embodied beings in their state that was trillions upon trillions of light years ago
> > Or even what they are now… thought moves faster than anything in existence
>
> Okey-dokey
🙂 _shrug_. Analogies and metaphors have their limits… experience reigns supreme still. So tell me, this infinity that you hang out at where all these series converge for you… is it fun? Oh, that’s right… it’s just a metaphor! Like I said, experience reigns supreme…
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1048 "2017-06-17T00:44:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> 🙂 _shrug_. Analogies and metaphors have their limits… experience reigns supreme still. So tell me, this infinity that you hang out at where all these series converge for you… is it fun? Oh, that’s right… it’s just a metaphor! Like I said, experience reigns supreme…
Yeah, unfortunately I have to work within my limits. I have never talked to God or spirits or demons, been to heaven or hell, touched infinity, had out of body experiences, been reincarnated, been one with the universal consciousness, made a perpetual motion machine, circumvented the laws of thermodynamics …
I’m making lemonade with the lemons that I have gathered over the years.
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1049 "2017-06-17T00:50:04Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > 🙂 _shrug_. Analogies and metaphors have their limits… experience reigns supreme still. So tell me, this infinity that you hang out at where all these series converge for you… is it fun? Oh, that’s right… it’s just a metaphor! Like I said, experience reigns supreme…
>
> Yeah, unfortunately I have to work within my limits. I have never talked to God or spirits or demons, been to heaven or hell, touched infinity, had out of body experiences, been reincarnated, been one with the universal consciousness, made a perpetual motion machine, circumvented the laws of thermodynamics …
>
> I’m making lemonade with the lemons that I have gathered over the years.
Well… sounds to me like you’re off to a good start.
When these things do occur, try not to go insane like I did!
I’ll tell you something very important to keep with you…
The question of whether there is a grand creator, is actually yours to decide. There isn’t a wrong answer.
That’s how big this cosmos actually is
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1050 "2017-06-17T01:07:09Z")
> [@Ecmandu](#):
>
> > [@phyllo](#):
> >
> > > [@](#):
> > >
> > > 🙂 _shrug_. Analogies and metaphors have their limits… experience reigns supreme still. So tell me, this infinity that you hang out at where all these series converge for you… is it fun? Oh, that’s right… it’s just a metaphor! Like I said, experience reigns supreme…
> >
> > Yeah, unfortunately I have to work within my limits. I have never talked to God or spirits or demons, been to heaven or hell, touched infinity, had out of body experiences, been reincarnated, been one with the universal consciousness, made a perpetual motion machine, circumvented the laws of thermodynamics …
> >
> > I’m making lemonade with the lemons that I have gathered over the years.
>
> Well… sounds to me like you’re off to a good start.
>
> When these things do occur, try not to go insane like I did!
>
> I’ll tell you something very important to keep with you…
>
> The question of whether there is a grand creator, is actually yours to decide. There isn’t a wrong answer.
> That’s how big this cosmos actually is
[viewtopic.php?p=2668152#p2668152](http://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?p=2668152#p2668152)
Sorry James, I felt obligated to add this to my prior comment, perhaps we can get back to the question phyllo avoided about whether math being a representation of reality is in fact not reality itself, as we ponder ideas of presumed convergences
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1051 "2017-06-17T01:12:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The question of whether there is a grand creator, is actually yours to decide. There isn’t a wrong answer.
I think a grand creator is outside of my head. What I decide about it, is inside my head and my decision may be wrong. But I understand that’s how knowledge works and I accept it.
Everything that I know and believe may be wrong.
---
### Author:  [@James\_S\_Saint](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/James_S_Saint)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1052 "2017-06-17T01:14:30Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> > [@James S Saint](#):
> >
> > > [@phyllo](#):
> > >
> > > Series which converge add ever smaller numbers to the total until ultimately they add nothing more. That’s the basic concept. It’s nothing mysterious or inaccessible. One can see it by preforming many calculations on a computer.
> >
> > That is the fallacy in your reasoning.
> >
> > There is no point where “ultimately they add nothing more”. That point, “at infinity”, is erroneous imagining.
>
> The results are confirmed by other methods. The 0.999… =1 result can be achieved by series expansions or with straight divisions, multiplications, additions and subtractions - probably a dozen have been shown in this thread. In order to accept “your logic”, we would have to throw out the work in many fields of mathematics.
>
> You can start another thread where you claim that series don’t converge. I’m sure that you can make it run for 50 pages or more.
You have no idea what you are talking about. There have never been any “results” or proofs that 1 = 0.999… And there never will be. And your fantasy about math having to be thrown out is just nonsense.
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> Everything that I know and believe may be wrong.
Yep.
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1053 "2017-06-17T01:17:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > phyllo wrote:
> > Everything that I know and believe may be wrong.
>
> Yep.
Do you have the balls to make the same statement?
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1054 "2017-06-17T01:19:50Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > The question of whether there is a grand creator, is actually yours to decide. There isn’t a wrong answer.
>
> I think a grand creator is outside of my head. What I decide about it, is inside my head and my decision may be wrong. But I understand that’s how knowledge works and I accept it.
>
> Everything that I know and believe may be wrong.
I can tell you this. There are lots of beings older, wiser, and more powerful than you.
I can also tell you this… a grand creator doesn’t care whether you believe in it, it can make a perfectly consistent atheistic universe for you, co-shared perfectly consistently with creationists …
Personally… I’m an all of the above guy
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1055 "2017-06-17T01:23:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I can also tell you this… a grand creator doesn’t care whether you believe in it, it can make a perfectly consistent atheistic universe for you, co-shared perfectly consistently with creationists …
What is an “atheistic universe”? Everyone there is an atheist?
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1056 "2017-06-17T01:37:49Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > I can also tell you this… a grand creator doesn’t care whether you believe in it, it can make a perfectly consistent atheistic universe for you, co-shared perfectly consistently with creationists …
>
> What is an “atheistic universe”? Everyone there is an atheist?
It’s actually much more elegant than that!!
You can co-exist in the same exact world system and the system is internally and externally consistent for atheists and creationists… this type of precision is mind blowing!!
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1057 "2017-06-17T01:42:26Z")
> [@](#):
>
> You can co-exist in the same exact world system and the system is internally and externally consistent for atheists and creationists… this type of precision is mind blowing!!
Bah, humbug.
Atheists think there is no creator and theists think there is a creator. The atheists are wrong if a creator made the universe. Nothing mind blowing.
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1058 "2017-06-17T01:42:48Z")
> [@Ecmandu](#):
>
> > [@phyllo](#):
> >
> > > [@](#):
> > >
> > > I can also tell you this… a grand creator doesn’t care whether you believe in it, it can make a perfectly consistent atheistic universe for you, co-shared perfectly consistently with creationists …
> >
> > What is an “atheistic universe”? Everyone there is an atheist?
>
> It’s actually much more elegant than that!!
>
> You can co-exist in the same exact world system and the system is internally and externally consistent for atheists and creationists… this type of precision is mind blowing!!
I’ll add to this (sorry James)
The options are:
1.) one grand creator
2.) more than one grand creator (cocreation) but not everyone
3.) everyone created this together
4.) nobody created this
You can pick any option or any multiple options you want. I pick all 4. There is no wrong answer. I can’t stress that enough
---
### Author:  [@Ecmandu](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Ecmandu)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1059 "2017-06-17T01:48:21Z")
> [@phyllo](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > You can co-exist in the same exact world system and the system is internally and externally consistent for atheists and creationists… this type of precision is mind blowing!!
>
> Bah, humbug.
>
> Atheists think there is no creator and theists think there is a creator. The atheists are wrong if a creator made the universe. Nothing mind blowing.
Not that simple. It’s not an excluded middle. You don’t think a creator could create a non created cosmos and a created cosmos at the same time?
I know it sounds absurd at first… one person who believes in a creator, will see all the signs of one eventually… those who don’t will always be able to prove the other ones wrong. It’s really hard to explain unless you’ve seen it… everything constructed by perspective in something so mindowingly elegant … it’s your choice!! You cannot make a wrong choice!
---
### Author:  [@phyllo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/phyllo)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360/1060 "2017-06-17T02:01:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> You cannot make a wrong choice!
Making a wrong choice is not the end of the world.
[Previous page](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360.md?page=52)
[Next page](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/is-1-0-999-really/42360.md?page=54)