Let us say that you are a warrior fighting in a war. There is an important mission and the Captain lol asks for volunteers. Volunteers. There are four soldiers who volunteer and pick straws out of a hat. You get the short ended straw but that is okay because you volunteered. You were not so-to-speak chosen without your consent.
Now, you were chosen but at the same it was your decision. Someone can be “chosen” for something which was their idea in the first place.
Show me where it says that Christ had no say in it.
[b]For those who have eyes to see (i.e., those who understand the history of the Kings of Israel), the baptism of Jesus is not a washing away of sin (the ordinary reason for people coming to be baptized by John the Baptist) but the moment when he is anointed as The Christ, the King. John plays the role of Samuel, who anointed (christened!) Saul and David as King of Israel. He is also cast in the role of Elijah, the prophet who was commonly expected to come back down from Heaven to anoint (christen!) the next “son of David” to fulfill the promises made in God’s covenant with David (cf. Ps 89:1-38).
Unlike Samuel, John the Baptist did not use oil to anoint (christen!) Jesus as The Christ, the King. The Father Himself anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit, the reality symbolized by the prophet’s oil of anointing. The Scriptures about Jesus’ Baptism are ambiguous about who saw the Spirit and who heard the voice from Heaven.[/b] moleski.net/cac/The_Baptism_of_Jesus
Mt 3:13
Mk 1:9
Lk 3:21
Strangely enough, I cannot pinpoint any Gospel of John which refers to it.
You win?
In John 10:17-18 we read that Christ said He chose to die for our sins. Yes, the Father sent Him, but He also voluntarily wanted to die to save us. He was God the Son who wanted to die for us.
For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father. John 10:17-18 (NASB)
Therefore, the answer to your question is that Christ obeyed the Father because He loved us and wanted to rescue us from the consequences of sin or disobedience. That is the act of a loving God.[/b]
Anyway, Yahweh started no war. We all brought it upon ourselves. Cause and effect. The world, the flesh and the devil. lol
Do you actually hate the God that people believe in?
Who is the innocent? Who is the guilty?
Do you actually really believe, see, that Christ was a scapegoat for his father or are you simply trying to point out to people how muddied their thinking is?
Mind you, I am agnostic. lol
You must think Jesus would want to do what his own Jewish law says not to do and actually cannot be done.
You must think he went against his own teachings.
You must see Jesus as quite the hypocrite then.
Christians will not and cannot argue for substitutional punishment. They always run away. I have the following to draw them into discussions.
Let’s look at the moral aspects and see where we end.
On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.
It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.
Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.
It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, — so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, — is immoral.
To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.
Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.
Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.