So, What I wanna know is this - is america a christian nation? Were the founding fathers all holy christians following the word of the Lord to found a new Jerusalem on the Hill?
The original Americans used to be the Red Indians (native indians) who worshipped the natural forces like the sun, fire, lightning, storms, etc., isn’t it? And the rest are all immigrants whether 1st generation, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Some of these immigrants brought the blacks as slaves from South America initially and so the founding fathers have to be a mixture of all the religions above. However, some Christians do not know how to mind their own business and like to spread Christianity even though we all have our own religions and as a matter of fact do not like impositions. They do not understand that if I want to know their religion, I will come to them, why would they come to me? Do I not have a religion already? Or do they believe that theirs is superior and somehow that belief gives them the right to come knocking on my door some weekends and to even bother me at the bus-stop. Because of earlier and these new impositions I think we see a lot of Christian Americans and because of the general tendency of more Christians to immigrate here in the beginning mostly from Europe also I believe. I know this is besides the point but if some Christians minded their own business then some Muslims would too because life is a balance I believe in the long run at least.
“Because the colonizers failed to recognize the complexity, diversity, and richness of native religions, they intruded upon Indian religious rights without feeling any guilt or self-doubt.”
“Christian Indian “praying” towns, established by John Eliot in 1646, segregated natives from both frontiersmen and non-Christian tribal members, forcing native residents to completely repudiate their culture and traditional ways of worship.”
“Nineteenth-century Americans expected the federal government to follow the colonial tradition of suppressing tribal religions, and thus to “civilize” native people.”
college.hmco.com/history/readers … ousrig.htm
(Hehehe! Just proved there is re-incarnation or re-birth although many of you won’t believe so. It’s a small example but whatever…)
The guys in the north were puritins, the bums in the south were pretty secular second sons of important people.
Most of the founding fathers would have probably self-identified as Christians, but so did anyone that felt like being alive in those days.
They certainly had an intereting hodge podge of ideas.
A lot of them were Deists actualy.
I’d say most who bother you at door and bustop simply believe that their religion is the Truth and that they have a duty to share that Truth with others. If I really follow the Christian maxim of loving my brother and I believe that he cannot reach heaven without excepting this Truth, I would probably be out proselyting too
Babymine, you forget something very important here. And that is that it is nobody’s duty nor right nor responsibility to ensure that if there is something called Heaven above which they believe in then, they must make people go to this heaven. Have you ever heard of the phrase, “MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS?” Besides, who writes and dictates that TRUTH is the ultimate that everyone should follow? Life does not say that. That’s not the way it goes. You live the way you like and I will live the way I like and NOTHING gives you the right or another that if someone believes in a certain path of truth that will lead to all happiness, that they enforce this view upon me. Infact, enforce it on yourself 'cause YOU perhaps need it. And when would you NOT need it? Is when YOU start to live your life RESPONSIBLY and so you do not forget the feelings and rights of another. So the basic essence of the Bible which these TRUTH loving people fail to understand is - live your life responsibly. In which case, you go and do what the hell you like but taking care that you don’t step upon another’s feelings or rights! 
Ah! Ha! When Christ said, “Love thy neighbour” He meant that ‘we should treat every other person as we would like to be treated.’ Or in other words he asked us all to follow the Golden Rule of today which is, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” But then He also added, “Love thy enemy.” Now this does not make sense at all because in essence in this He is asking us to love our enemy. How can I love my enemy? If he is my enemy then he clearly wronged me heavily and to suggest that I love him would be saying that I am a robot and so must not have any ill feelings towards my enemy because I’m a robot. But I’m not a robot, I have feelings. If I was a robot then I would be perhaps even more dangerous than my enemy. But luckily I’m not a robot and I have feelings which dictate to me that I simply CANNOT love my enemy and also, that it is not wrong to do so, it’s justified! Alright? Now you go and believe some weird Christian maxims that make no sense, I don’t have to. However, in suggesting that we, “love thy neighbour” Christ is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! But, Christ forgot something more important than, “loving thy neighbour.” He forgot to add that we should also love ourselves and respect ourselves just like we do others, in which case we be responsible and DO NOT force our beliefs on others. Got something to say, say it and leave it at that. Now if He had done that then He probably would not have been crucified to the cross. Whatever…
ummm…the quote attributed to Jesus is “Thou shall love your neighbor as yourself” To love your neighbor as yourself, you must first love yourself, else you are incapable of loving others.
Jesus’ words shouldn’t lead anyone to think they can force their beliefs on anyone. Proselyting is not forcing one’s beliefs on someone, it is, so to speak, sharing the good news. Listen, if you figure out say, the cure for cancer, don’t you have some moral duty to share that with the world? The Christian proselyte believes, in effect, that they have found the cure for death, the key to life everlasting. Thus, they believe it to be their moral duty to share that with the world. You don’t force anyone to accept it, but you make damn sure that you tell everyone you can.
This is kinda insulting. Jesus died because he challenged a status quo. I suppose he should had just said his peace and “[left] it at that”. But then again, if that maxim was to be followed then abolision, democracy, civil-rights movements, etc. would probably be nothing but the occasional mutterings of someone who had something to say and then quickly scuttle away before they imposed their ideas on someone
An Imaginary Man,
Just how imaginary are you? I need you to be real here 
I know when Christ said that ‘we love our neighbour like we love ourselves,’ and so loving oneself first is a pre-requisite. But then He also says that we love our enemy. That’s the context I talked about in and I meant that there is no way that I can love my enemy unless I’m some robot or irrational.
And if I figure out something, I’ll post it on the net, perhaps publish a book, etc. But Christ tried to enforce His views on the general public again and again in the sense that He believed Himself to be right and so He believed that all should follow what He dictates. Now that’s wrong. And that’s questionable too depending upon which perspective it’s from. For eg: regarding ‘turning the other cheek,’ He meant that if someone pays off my debt then I should also do the same. Now first this is an imposition and an expectation just because someone helped me and on top of that my paying off someone’s debt is not even an act of kindness like the one that was shown to me but is something that is expected of me now. Why would I agree with Christ on this? If this is not an imposition or force then what is? And this was just one example.
He also said things against the govt., and He was right, but the govt. didn’t like His enforcing His ideas and so He was crucified by the govt. You think that was wise of Him or the govt.? I say things against people and the govt. because we all have right of speech, but I don’t enforce anything anywhere. And that’s how it should be!
I believe George Washington was a Deist…or however you spell it.
I do not think that it is a “moral duty” to spread the word of Jesus. that is to say, if a christian fails to spread the word he has not done anything imoral. it’s like sharing food with third world country in a way, most people will say that we are not obliged to share what we have with the third world people who are/maybe starving, but of course it would be very nice and admirable/appreciable if we do.
Who are you calling third world? When you mention that, say technologically advanced third world or I can also prove to you how some European and the Western countries are emotionally and morally third world countries even more third world than the third world countries you mention.
US is in the first place a very, very ‘human’ nation
that’s interesting. Please elaborate. I’m always curious about European thoughts on America
You’re right, but it’s only “human” for itself. For all others it is just an opportunist. And being an opportunist is also alright because this is an adult environment and so we should all know how to be smart. But some MORONS can’t think rationally, like those terrorists back east or mid-east. Who is stopping them from being smart? Why are they violent? Violence is not the way to be smart or look smart.
Violence is violence, it hurts and is not justified. And these terrorists think they are humane AFTER all the violence they do and get away with it too. On top of that they are not even fair to their own which US inadvertently is. These mid-east terrorists use their own people and abuse their own just to further some crime or violence and they think it is justified. Is this what Muhammed advocated? Is this what Islam teaches?
Islam teaches peace not violence my dears. It teaches to use the “pen” and not the “sword.” And mind you that does not mean that you make some penned message so implicit or subtle DELIBERATELY perhaps because you don’t want it to be acted upon just because your plans for the Sept. 11th tragedy are already under way and you have every intention of hurting the US in a major way or why would you not hurt it in a small way first where no lives were involved at all to show to the US that you meant business? Isn’t it because you just wanted to make a show of the “pen” and not put it to effective use because you essentially believe in violence more?
And in attaining peace where force and violence must be exerted, that violence is only limited to ourself, that’s what Islam says, that we try and achieve control on our own inner self? Where did the others come in here? So when you mid-east or whatever terrorists go and do a tragedy like the Sept. 11th one, you are not acting on behalf of Islam. YOU are the infidels here, you are the kafirs, the non-believers. Why should you not be rooted out according to your own philosophy of not believing in God?
Besides, the Sept. 11th tragedy was just a physical terrorism, what about the mental terrorism that 300 Million American people are going through and have gone through in the past years? Should we just sit here and watch the show and perhaps more terrorism? That thing you have about having more than one wife started because some muslims fought so many wars there weren’t enough men around for the women and so one man could keep more than one woman. Isn’t it mainly because some muslims foght their own muslim brothers and they both annihilated the other? Do you need any more proof of how violent some of you are?
You want more proof? Here it is. Some staunch muslims believe in eating only Halaal meat. Halaal is when you slit the animal or it’s throat and let it bleed to death. They don’t kill it immediately and put an end to its misery because - when the animal is in pain and terrified for long then the blood rushes to it’s brain and the chemical affinity changes, thereby making the meat more tasty. So for taste some muslims would rather torture the animal and say, “Oh! My Islam says that. So how can you argue with that?” Arey! Don’t you have a heart in your body together with some brain?
You morons! When will you give up? Stop the bloody nonsense right now!
Chrisitanity was originally a primitive Communist movement against the Roman empire. It no longer exists in its true form, and what is called Christianity today is nothing more than the construct of the Council of Nicea.
However, when you look at the dogmatic Republicans, money, and the pledge, the US government seems to favor what is today’s notion of Christian.
If America is a Christan country what exactly does that mean? Does it mean that our values and laws should be determined or guided by Christian docterine, or does it simply mean that for the most part the people who live in the United States are of Christian faith. I’d accept the latter, being that for the most part I know (or perhaps I should say I believe…) that the majority of Americans are of Christian faith (of varying degrees). Although I hear the “American is a Christan nation” line most often appear during the dreaded gay marriage debates; most often followed by how our forfathers were christian, and they would have wanted it such-and-such a way. Although here, if America is to be guided by religious docterine, we, like Isreal, are going to run into the strange situation where we are going to have to decide if we are ultimately a democracy or a theocracy.
sntpqr,
I don’t think that America can be guided by a religious doctrine because I feel America of today is essentially multicultural. We see here people of different faiths, cultures, religions, Holy books, philosophies and ideologies. There is harmony here, we see all religions co-existing together.
When people from far back east, middle-east, europe, australia and elsewhere come here, they come for golden opportunities. Should we say they are not opportunists? Do we not accomodate them? Care about them? Provide them with golden opportunities and brilliant facilities. Do we resent them at all like the mid-east resents the American occupation in its lands? When these far east and mid-east countries consider themselves more “lovable” then are their people coming to the US for love and not for money? So, clearly are they not opportunists? They are!
But we look after them and care about them. We don’t demand that they get off the American soil nor say that they sully it. It’s because we don’t consider some land like Mecca, Medina or Jerusalem as holy but rather we consider the people themselves as HOLY and respect all humanity, I can’t say the same about some mid-east or other terrorists. In this sense our whole motherland or fatherland is holy. And so where some terrorists might justify their violence, it is not justified from any angle. Should we then insist that either they remove their peoples’ presence from our American soil or we will resort to violence too? No, we don’t do that because we respect all humanity in all its diversity anywhere and everywhere and provide them all amneties and comfort. Isn’t that the precise reason why people from the east and mid-east want to come to the US and not the other way round? So, we are opportunists but then you are too, so we are all opportunists to a degree and yet we don’t resort to violence unless you do and you do for no reason at all.
Islam does not say that for personal gratification or otherwise too that we resort to violence. Whatever…
I was just saying that America is not a Christian Nation, it is truly a multicultural country now where we embrace all religions and cultures in all their diversity.
You shouldn’t take the word love so literally in that context. The Dalai Lama has a similar teachings in which he says we should have compassion even for those we hate and are our enemies. I am pretty sure that is what is meant by love your enemy, not fall in love with your enemy or be his best friend. Just simply have no malice towards him out of compassion, as everyone suffers and is wrong from time to time.
Riiiiiiiiight… And the U.S. doesn’t unjustly terrorize and kill people in foreign lands?