Is it hip to be square?

After all the Huey Lewis talk, I was running today and got to thinking about that. In this world of crazy people how many people are actually square? Even priests can’t be trusted. Personally, I think the more open you are even with your children, you get more respect than if you “pretend” you didn 't have sex or smoke pot. I mean really - I graduated from high school during Woodstock and do you think I am gonna play the game of mummy the nun?

Sex. I think it it hip to be square on this one. You have to be out of your mind to have sex with a million people but if you do you better use a condom. I told my boys from the time they were in junior high if they were going to take it out they better wrap it up. It was a little over the top, but I made my point when I bought them a gross of them. Is there a double standard with my daughter? No. Not in my house. If she turns into a lapdancer I wouldn’t be thrilled but it is her life - not mine and at least she will be alive.

Health. I think it is hip to be healthy - quit smoking, exercise and keep your weight down… eat crap so you don’t deprive yourself, but be healthy. Is it hip to be healthy? yes. I wish LA would chime in on holistic health here (are you still talking to me?) because so much of our culture is about quick fixes with medicines when a decent diet can fix what ails you. I do wonder about the pesticides on the vegetables but you can’t seem to win. Don’t know much about organics but should look into it. So little time so much to read about. Speaking of which…

What ever happened to reading? Kids are watching more and more TV and sitting on their asses, playing x-box and getting fat. I like coming here to read which is why I stay writing in Mundane and Rant… I am addicted to soaking up the intellects of the likes of people like Satyr and Tabula who are some of the best writers I have ever read. I enjoy the humor, the philosophy, and expanding my mind. I am addicted to ILP to learn, which you can all laugh at me for saying but I think so many of you are smart and interesting and I don’t get that in the people I see day to day. I love getting your ideas on politics and religion - and have changed so much in my views since last year. If I am not playing or writing music, I am reading or running… is it hip to be here at ILP? Probably not, but I do it anyway because I am addicted to all of you - even those of you who don’t like me - I enjoy who you are and what you have to say. I especially enjoy the twenty-somethings who have turned a mirror on me making me realize that (yes) I was raised by June and Ward and they still linger in some of my attitudes. Shit.

Is it hip to be faithful? Yes, but affairs happen before you know it - so keep the homefires burning, folks or your wife will be out searching for love in all the wrong places. Not me, of course. :sunglasses:

Is it hip to be rich? God this is a tough one. Apparently it is. So much of our culture is built on it and kids today think of nothing else but. I think it is hip to give back when you are rich. You can only have so many pairs of shoes and then you start thinking about hungry people down the street from you and you feel downright dirty. Money is dirty, but God it sure is fun swimmin in it.

Then I ask myself… what is rich? Rich is being loved, but no one sees that today with wannabe Pottery Barn people walkin’ the streets. Rich is being fulfilled creatively… but keeping up with Mr and Mrs Jones gets in the way of seeing that.

Drugs and alcohol - everything in moderation… but marijuana should legalized and the drinking age should be up to the parents. My kids drank all through high school because I let them. Do they have drinking issues? No. Not one DUI, not one incident with the police. Respect your kids and teach them to drink the right way - that’s my motto.

Is it hip to be square? Usually.

Bessy jumps off her soapbox and goes and has lunch

It’s hip to decide these things for yourself.

That is, of course, the opposite usage of the word, most commonly. Usually, hipness is merely fashion-consciousness. But to be hip to something is to be aware of it - to be hip to life, live it as if it is your own.

'Cause it is.

Thats not square that is common sense, lie to your kid and you get kids with problems. Honesty has to be done in moderation also though. Too honest and well too honest can cause as many problems as lies. Social lies can be needed where honesty would cause direct problems. Try telling a friend or family member their kid should be out doing something besides games. I have yet to find a diplomatic way to do that. Tried once and got my foot jammed down my throat by my own self. Square is honest but, hip square is moderating that honesty. I think.

I just get tired of hypocitical-squareness. Many parents see me as ultra-liberal and yet - their kids are wild hellions running the neighborhood, binge drinking and completely irresponsible as they head into their adult years. I tire of born-again neighbors who never miss a Sunday service and yet won’t do you a favor, as they look down on your heathen ways and agnostic children. My husband is the most “Christian” man I know and he isn’t a Christian at all. My children are the same and (oh heavens) were never baptized.

I am a loose cannon of a mother who has raised good kids who drink early and have sex (sue me - so did I) but they are responsible to themselves and others with it. This is about honesty to me as much as it is about squareness.

You say this is common sense, Kris, and yet most parents love playing the “I was a nun” game and they can’t even have any level of honesty with their kids. We even watch Sex and the City together. Okay, the blowjobs are a little over the top, but we laugh… watch Pulp Fiction, use each other’s Ipods and generally go out of our way to “get” each other not put a wedge so huge that we can’t relate. I even leave their rooms alone - and don’t make them clean them up - their rooms — their problem. I am into honesty, whether it comes to sex, religion or rock and roll - honesty works for me.

Yes but, my guess is you are not tooo honest with your kids. you do let them learn on their own don’t you? And I am sure you don’t give them the entire details of your life. How many of your family and friends do you hinder by being too honest? None I would bet. Because you know when to let them learn for themselves. A too honest person would not do that. Too much honesty can weaken another person.

I am very honest. I don’t see that as a hinderence other than embarrassing them with my latest blowjob joke. I don’t divulge my sex life if that is what you mean… I do believe in total disclosure for my kids’ sake. I was the mother who brought them home from the bars. I was the mother they called when their car broke down in an area I told them not to go. I would be the one my daughter tells if she gets pregnant - god forbid. She needed birth control - she and I talked about it. They come to me with anything - bounced checks, dings on the car, bad grades… and that’s the way i like it.

Yes, Kris I let them fall down, but I will be there to pick them up, support them and not relish in critisizing them for it. We move on.

I have a good track record – I do have five kids.


LOL I was not refering to your sex life LOL that is always the first thought when too honest is mentioned. LOL No matter how “enlightened” :laughing: “too honest” brings visions of intimacy between two people.

Life has many more aspects then that. For instance:
You wouldn’t keep them from learning about lifes lessons through their own actions. You wouldn’t be honest to the point of taking all the bumps and bruises away that life can give. Too honest is control or sticking your nose in their life telling them what when and where because you know better. That is too honest to the point of control. That is part of what I meant.

This doesn’t just apply to kids, it applies to all that surround us.

no it isnt, wheres the correlation between honesty and controll ?

being honest and being a controll freak are totally different, you got it twisted :stuck_out_tongue:

Controlling and control freak are two different things.

You can control people by being too honest, which cripples.

A control freak is someone who has to be in charge.

Someone who is too honest believes they are only helping.

lady Bessy,

I don’t know if you’ll appreciate this or not, but screw it, it’s just a post.

Parents either grow with their children, or get left behind because they think they are above them.

My sons take it hard from me when they screw up. I have been honest with them, and they often come back to me with “when you were my age you did ____________, so why are you mad at me?” I retell them like I did the first time, “Just because I did __________ when I was your age, I was hoping you would do it differently”. Then we usually wrestle or toss cracks and insults at each other … unless we are really mad at each other … then we sit down and eat until we can’t sit up straight.

I was honest with them about sex, yeah … sex feels fantastic, it feels better if you are having it with someone who matters … and unprotected sex will feel like a bullet to the brain. You get someone pregnant … before you can afford it, and you will pay hell from me. (I’m far too young and sexy to be a “grandfather”).

One of my sons smoked dope … until his girlfriend became pregnant … and then he quit on his own, because of her and the baby … so at least he understood something I told him … he’s still a bonehead though.

I’ve been a parent long enough to realise that the hardest task it yet to come … with the daughter. I can’t stop her from having sex, no I can’t. But I can certainly hunt down and destroy anyone who makes the mistake of touching her, and wring every last ounce of blood from their lifeless body as recompense. Yes it’s a double standard, but I feel a fair one, especially considering the lack of character of males today, as concerns accepting responsibility for fatherhood.

At the end of it all, I hope when they are grown that I represent my children as much as they represent me, and more importantly, that we are friends for life.

We’re obviously different as parents, but yes, absolute honesty and F**k what other people think if your children grow to be thoughtful adults with a backbone.

That’s my lira’s worth.

Kris, I have to agree that there is a middle ground, and I think that Bessy recognizes that. Whether children or friends, it is important to let them be responsible for their own actions. We step in if they’re likely to kill themselves, but all other issues is experience and dealing with the consequences.

Bessy, the people who put up the facades just have some more to learn about themselves. They are hung up in their own insecurities and feel as if they have to “appear” to be something they’re not. Their pretense is just another way of saying they aren’t comfortable being as they really are. We let them go. We have enough trouble working through our own frailties. :stuck_out_tongue:

Um Tent., I was just explaining my meaning of too honest. We older hot women tend to jump into the fire with certain phrases. We have uh, earthy tendencies. Um, I just wanted to clarify my meaning. I know she knows but, she might not know I know she knows that I know,you know? :laughing:


Uhhh, I think I know when I don’t think I should know, and when I probably don’t want know. You know.? :blush:

Mas, When the young men come calling, tell them they can’t touch. Then tell them that you can do prison time again if you have to… :astonished: That ought to slow 'em down… :laughing:

Hi Mas,

That’s why a forum with words is so difficult. Of course I encouraged them to have meaningful sex with someone they love.Not to mention - THAT feels better, no? Hey, I am not into orgies (for me, but not them… LOL)

Anyhoo… what you wrote about is exactly how we parent - but I am just freer with talking about it than most. Surprised?

More later; I have company tonight. Chinese food and wine… lots of wine.

Kris - I want to address the honesty - probably at 2AM. See you all then.


But Bessy,

If you’re seeing them at 2AM, what about me? :cry:

Bessy my dear friend, if you see me at 2am tell me to shut up and get to bed I can’t do the 24 hr thing anymore and stay coherent. Or if you see me at 2am you are in my room which might make my husband tickled pink but, I sadly am a grouch and very unsocial if awakened at such an hour, which would probably explain why my husband would be tickled to see another female at that hour :laughing: .

Enjoy your company and food. I hope to enjoy family, lots o beer, a thick hearty bacon,swiss, mushroom burger with fries and a movie we can laugh at. and at 9 or 10 crash, 3am comes too early.

Tent, you know you are always with her, even when you are not. so cheer up.

So THAT’S why I’m so damned tired in the morning… :astonished:

Kris=ILP reader of tea leaves


Actually 4AM is devoted to you… :wink:


In this day and age you can’t be too overprotective or honest. I like giving them a choke collar just long enough that I am still in control but they get to see the error of their ways. Parenting isn’t a game of control and ego like the olden days. Today, the kids are so sophistcated and there are things going on in the 6th grade that would curl your hair.

Mas, did you know that blowjobs are the norm now in junior high? The norm. Make no mistake about it: if you don’t discuss this with your daughter, she has NO PERSPECTIVE other than what she is told on the bus. Young girl leaves school dance - is told that to be popular she had better try this - does it - feels shame - has nowhere emotionally to go with it. I may shock people with my openness about sex with my kids, but you had better wake up if you have a daughter, Mas. Don’t be like most fearful monkeys or your thirteen year old daughter will be spanking someone elses…