Is Nihilism Growing?

Is there an increasing amount of nihilism that the human population experiences?

Not many of the people experiencing nihilism may even know what nihilism is. They might identify it as depression, sadness, anxiety, or other things.
But for this discussion, assume a vague definition of nihilism: feeling like there is a lack of any (greater) meaning/purpose to life. For the sake of an efficient discussion, the definition of nihilism might even stray as vague as “a general discontent with life”.

Humanity has experienced nihilism since ancient times, but is nihilism becoming increasingly prevalent as humanity becomes more technologically advanced? We don’t have to work nearly as hard for the things we desire. Survival is definitely not too large of a problem - we can get food, water, and all of our basic needs with relative ease.

Life isn’t as satisfying. As technology lowers the amount of effort required to obtain our wants/needs, those wants/needs become less pleasurable. However, perhaps “the net amount of pleasure in life” works differently from how we perceive it to.

Here are some possibilities:
A) Nihilism is increasing
- at a linear rate
- at an exponential rate
B) The amount of nihilism in a population remains constant - i.e., X% of a population is always going to be nihilistic in nature.
C) The amount of nihilism may increase for a period of time, but will:
- plateau eventually
- peak, then gradually decline
- peak, then rapidly decline
D) The rate of nihilism will spike whenever a population is exposed to a source of nihilism, but then the population will gradually return to baseline.

The answer could also be something abstract, like:

  • The level of nihilism can never be predicted/determined mathematically, since nihilism is a result of an individual’s choice to have such a perspective; an individual chooses nihilism by there own free will.
  • Nihilism doesn’t exist, and is just an idea invented to disguise or justify something else like apathy, anger, pride, sadness, malice, etc

It might be a good idea to incorporate some other sciences into your answer, such as sociology (does nihilism disperse through the population via the collective unconsciousness), evolutionary psychology (psychological predispositions are a hereditary trait, and the human mind evolves over generations to accommodate for nihilism), etc.

What are all of your proposed answers?

Nobody can help you. Help you to achieve what? That is the question. As long as your goal is there, certain persons, their promises and their techniques will look very, very attractive to you. They go together. There is not anything you must do. Anyway, you are already doing many things. Can you be without doing anything? You can’t be without doing anything. Unfortunately you are doing something, and that doing has got to come to an end. In order to bring that doing to an end, you are doing something else. That is really the crux of the problem. That’s the situation in which you find yourself. That’s all that I can say. I point out the absurdity of what you are doing.

There is nothing to get. Nothing to give and nothing to get. That is the situation. In the material world, yes. We have a lot of things. There is always somebody who can help you with the knowledge, with the money, with so many things in the world. But here in this field there is nothing to give and nothing to get. As long as you want, you can be certain you ain’t got a chance. Wanting implies that you are going to set your thinking in motion to achieve your goal. It is not a question of achieving your goal, but it is a question of this movement coming to an end internally. The only thing that you can do is to set in motion this movement of thought in the direction of achieving that. How are you going to achieve this impossible task?

Wanting and thinking – they always go together. I am not for a moment suggesting that you should suppress all your wants, or free yourself from all your wants, and control all your wants. Not at all. That’s the spiritual ascetic game. If you want anything, the one thing that you will do is to set in motion the movement of thought to achieve your goal.
Material goals, yes, but even there it’s not so easy. It is such a competitive world. Not much is left for us to share. Not enough to go around.

The talk of sharing with somebody is nonsense to me. There is nothing internal to be shared if it is not a thought induced experience. That’s not an experience. Even assuming for a moment that this is an experience, even then it is so difficult to share with somebody else unless the other individual has some reference point within the framework of his experiencing structure. So, then you see the whole business becomes a sort of meaningless ritual – sitting and discussing these matters. That’s all. It’s not so easy for you to give up. Not at all.

Meaning derives from suffering, pain, hardship, struggle, exhaustion, as does happiness - from working through these states. We cannot be happy or have meaning in our lives without this expense of energy, without giving ourselves and strugging and suffering for something, for an achievment. Part of this is also knowing the difference between types of sufferings, between how and why they exist. We suffer for all the wrong reasons. Learning how to suffer “in the right way” is essential - what it means to work, struggle, suffer, sacrifice, achieve, overcome, create, grow. To become, to be.

Happiness is what can happen when we have a brief absence from these mental states, when we experience fulfillment of our efforts and strivings. Meaning is what happens when we associate things and people with these states of happiness or completeness. And meaning and happiness feed into and off of each other, one leading to the other when we are immersed within the moment, when we let go and just live carefree and spontaneously, letting go of the need for control and the anxiety of separation. We are not separate, separation exists only in our minds.

Kids are not nihilists, because they live in the moment, completely connected to reality in innumerable deep and intimate ways. We need to re-learn what this is like. As adults we forget what it means to be alive.

If we talk about nihilism as a dissatisfaction with life, in an emotional as well as cognitive sense, it stems from the lack of meaning and happiness, which, in turn, these lacks stem from the lack of struggle and suffering in our lives. Life is too easy, too simple, too repetitive, too unchallenging.

I would call the state of happiness and meaning “being whole”, just being in the moment, satisfied, connected to yourself and the world around you, at peace and stability.

Novelty is another important factor to happiness and meaning, to being whole. We need new experiences because having the same experiences over and over again deadens the receptors in the mind and body, the experience cannot generate the same responses within us. No one can remain vigilant forever. At some point laziness and apathy and unfocus set in, we drift our attention, we disconnecte from the repetitive experience because it is not stimulating enough. We know it, so the mind moves on. In general modern life is very repetitive. So this leads to a state of disconnection from that life.

When we are a kid we experience immediate ecstatic happiness from the simplest experiences - standing outside underneath a tree, running in a field, playing with a new toy, building a tower of blocks, a bowl of ice-cream, a baseball game, getting up early to watch saturday morning cartoons. These things can cause so much simple and overwhelming happiness in a kid because they are new experiences; they are fresh, unknown, exciting, unexpected, riveting, infinite and expansive (they are infinite, from the perspective of the kid). As adults we lose the sense of infinite expanse in reality, we measure and define everything. Labels and concepts close off reality from us, our words take the place of immediate conscious experience of being immersed in the present moment. Happiness and meaning can have as little to do with this sense of being in the moment, of being infinite, of being expansive, of being spontaneous and undefined, of being liberated and free.

And along with this comes striving, working, putting in effort - this is what is meant by suffering. Suffering is not about being in pain, it is about working and striving for something, something hard, something that takes input of energy. As organisms we are constructed to create, interact, experience. When we are in a pure state of being immersed within an environment, new and exciting and unknown, and then in this environment when we are engaged in tasks which require the expense of energy, of our time and focus, and we can observe the results of this input, we feel natural, complete. Kids live their lives like this completely, but somewhere in growing up we lose this feeling. We dont want to put in effort, we want to be in control of everything and thus we kill the unknown and spontaneous in our lives. The need for control defines the neurotic, precisely because he has this need while at the same time feeling out of control. We are all of us neurotics - in a way, growing up is a growing-neurotic.

Most of us push this away, repress it inside. Drown in work or leisure such as philosophy. Escapism becomes one of the central tenants of our lives. But what are we escaping from? The world? Our lives? Yet we are the ones who create our world, in a personal way - we are the ones who give rise to our lives. If we are seeking escape from the world, from life, then it is only ourselves that we desire escape from.

Nihilism is a symptom of neurosis more so than psychosis, but it can be symptomatic of both - the neurotic has far more need for nihilism than the psychotic. Psychosis is the state of over-stimulation, over-immergence within the environment and within one’s own mind and body, a state of over-connectivity; neurosis, on the other hand, is a state of under-connectivity. In many ways these mirror each other, but they are fundamentally different. Yet both are negative states, they are harmful and wasteful of our potential, they represent loss of self and of ‘being whole’. Nihilism is one way that the cognitive thinking mind copes with and generates solutions for this pervasive state of neurosis - either state of loss will need to be dealt with by the organism (you) and thus your mind tries to think up solutions. . . yet these take the form of controls, of definitions, of theories, not of practical solutions or deep connected syntheses with your inner nature and true problems. Thinking is used here as an escapism, as a drug to patch the problem temporarily - and when the patch fails, more thinking is employed to make a new patch.

The same problems that lead us away from happiness and meaning in our lives (disconnection, neurosis or psychosis, or both, as the case may be) are the same things which lead our thinking mind to slip away from actually addressing the problems themselves - our cognition and consciousness do not want to fix the problem, because that would mean identifying it, and that is too hard, would be a contradiction of the very conditions which give rise to the problems themselves. Nihilism is one of these thinking-escapes, a conceptual patch. It doesnt work very well, because it causes its own problems. Nihilism only reinforces neurosis and psychosis because it defines them and gives justification to them, legitimizes them in the mind. Of course we know intuitively that they are still problems, that they still represent pathologies, but we train ourselves to be in constant denial. Nothing gets fixes, nothing gets solved and we are left floating in a disconnected world of loneliness and misery.

Nihilism will only make it worse. Nihilism is only a reaction of the thinking mind trying to cope with the underlying problems of neurosis and psychosis. Mental anguish, cognitive dissonance, emotional instability, denial and repression, self-doubt and confusion, these plague the mind and body, sap its energies, turn consciousness and being alive into a prison and a Hell. If nihilism helps alieviate this temporarily, as it will do, then that can be a good thing in terms of escaping from suffering - but it is precisely the need to escape suffering that causes these problems in the first place.

Life is a place of uncertainty, struggle, chaos, infinite distances, unending possibilities - when we shut these away we are only creating a false reality within our minds, at the expense of contact with genuine reality itself. Our neurotic need for control does not generate a new reality, it does not change the nature of life and reality itself, it only separates us from these.

Getting back to a child-like state of wonder, being immersed within reality, sensing the infinite expanse and unending possibilities, being spontaneous, being free, being in the moment, suffering in the moment, finding solutions, expanding ourselves into our activities and becoming one with the world and things and people around us, are the answers to nihilism, depression, disconnection, neurosis, psychosis. The answers are to return consciousness to its rightful place, to its natural state, and this requires working to remove the artificial barriers that we put up within our minds and lives.

We need to learn to let go - to be kids again. To experience the wonder and awe of being in the moment, of having new and exciting experiences of an unknown and uncertain nature - of sensing the infinity of the world around us. Free yourself from definitions, from closed boxes of concepts, from the chains of paradigms and beliefs. . . these are merely your thinking mind constantly trying to control everything. Let go of your need for control. Identity can be one of these manifestations of this need - if your identity is the product of your need for control, let it go. Be something else, be nothing, be in the moment, be alive without names or words or beliefs. Just BE.

Remember the feeling of being a child. We each have those memories, the pure bright wonder of being alive, pure genuine happiness and perfection with the world. Recall that state, re-create it in your mind. Seek the conditions of that state within your consciousness, bring it forth.

Be simple and carefree and light. For myself this feeling of pure happiness, pure being-alive is captured by a memory of me and my friend Trevor running through knee-high grass just after dark, the large moon hanging over our heads, the grass wet with dew, running through the field behind my house through a small park and to a playground with swings and slides. Having come from my house, where my parents were throwing a party, I had the music and feeling of connection and mirth welling up within me - I was so in the moment, carefree and joyous, the night was a mysterious place around me, the sensations and cool air energizing. Running full speed, music and joy in my mind, I felt alive, pure happiness of being in the moment, joy of being alive. This sort of feeling can be recaptured if we re-learn what it means to be conscious, to be alive in the first place. Find your own such memory, and go there. Be quiet, be simple, be sincere. Just close your eyes and go there.

Sometimes healing can be about nothing more simple than just being. Stop doing, stop thinking, and just be.

Conditioning is tradition, impressions stored in the mind that form the basis of our beliefs, attitudes and nature. Tradition is what you are – what you call you, mostly created by your society to maintain the status quo… No matter how you may modify it, it continues. In life everything is temporary, and the attempt to give continuity to conditioning – which is based upon thought – is pathological in nature. We treat the psychological and the pathological as if they were two different things. Actually there is only the pathological there. Your conditioning that makes you feel separate from yourself and the world, is pathological.

Where is this conditioning you talk of? Where are the thoughts located? They are not in the brain. Thoughts are not manufactured by the brain. It is, rather, that the brain is like an antenna, picking up thoughts on a common wavelength, a common thought-sphere.

All your actions, whether thinking of God or beating a child, spring from the same source – thinking. The thoughts themselves cannot do any harm. It is when you attempt to use, censor, and control those thoughts to get something that your problems begin. You have no recourse but to use thought to get what you want in this world. But when you seek to get what does not exist – bliss, love, etc. – through thought, you only succeed in pitting one thought against another, creating misery for yourself and the world.

When the thought structure, pressed into the service of fear and hope, cannot achieve what it wants, or cannot be certain, it introduces what you call “faith”. Where is the need for belief, or its alter-ego faith? When your beliefs have gotten you nowhere, you are told you must cultivate faith. In other words, you must have hope. Whether you are seeking bliss, peace of mind, or, more tangibly, happiness, you end up relying on hope, belief, and faith. These dependencies are the tokens of your failure to get the results you desire.

Yet, nihilism and pessimism are the only things that are justifiable.
Everything dies, everything fades, all happiness and comfort is temporary, and the only thing that is guaranteed is suffering.
It’s existence is logical, or at least more logical than its opposition.

My original post was written with a sort of assumption that nihilism is true, but it has long-been our goal to distract ourselves from nihilism.
Once there is nothing left and nihilism becomes undeniable, humanity’s torment will be tremendous.

The original post was asking “at what rate is humanity approaching ‘undeniable nihilism’ ?”

In that case, I would say not at all. There are more meanings and distractions out there today than probably any time in history - there are more ways to drown out reality and create our own meanings than ever. Nihilism is as far away as it has ever been, probably farther away than its ever been considering the types of stimulating, creative and distracting societies we live in now (at least within the first world).

Is all introspection coated in turgidity necessarily philosophy? :frowning:

The more disconnected and dissatisfied people become and the more they spend their time reading and thinking the more likely are they to become nihilistic. They are not immersed in the social activities of life and being separate they start gaining knowledge that can be antithetical to life and they have no surrounding network to keep them in the social world of appearances that conceals the fundamental nature of existence.

Disconnection for social animals leads to all manner of mental problems. The nihilist seems mentally ill from a societal perspective, but,in this case, his individualization has led to the discovery of some truths which reveal the fundamental errors or fantasies upholding social existence. No doubt, these realizations and potential further isolation could lead to mental illness, but being nihilistic is not insanity in itself. It is disturbing and crushes social morality, though.

One would think that nihilism is growing with the destruction of traditional religions, but at the same time we see a rise in new age movements and political movements which give purposes to lives,give entries for immersion. Fiction is the necessary condition for human reality. Without fiction the mass nihilisation of humanity would lead to the death of humanity.

This doesn’t seem like a nihilistic statement to me, though.

Maybe I’m not sure exactly what you mean by nihilism, though. There’s philosophical nihilism, moral nihilism, etc., and the term isn’t really clear even with those specifics.

I wouldn’t bunch up the word with "depression, or a general feeling of lacking feeling that the majority of deem “Good”. I think “Nihilism”–to have any communicable meaning at all–ought to be restricted to a “philosophical” (verbally declarative) outlook (/statement).

What’s nihilism, exactly?

I know you attempted to make a pretty clear definition in the OP, but it (and “Nihilism” in general) has just seemed fuzzy to me.

Por ejemplo

What do you mean by greater? Do you mean something like a meaning/purpose that
A) was and/or is set/intended (consciously) by a being that isn’t a (mind resulting from the activity of/in a) “Homo Sapien”, and
B) humans have to obtain (and/or obtain to a lesser degree by successfully/"righteously’ pursuing) in order to avoid and/or minimize suffering?

Or do you just mean something “better” than (a) certain meaning(s)/purpose(s) that have–at least in the current moment–left one unsatisfied?
Before dismissing this, an important explanation:
In the all-encompassing sense, this would be like a “secular” equivalent to the A and B above–an absolute tailored to a knowledge of the hard and soft sciences (IE a pragmatic morality).

The meanings/beliefs one has been working with have been deemed unsuitable, correct? But there’s a reason they are so often unquestioned (or repeatedly returned to after condemnation): it still has some connection with positive rewards. This isn’t being questioned, of course–it’s diminished value is not a doubt of its ability to reap rewards; rather, the focus (of this meaning/purpose–what overwhelming correlation which now defines it–) is one’s current suffering/need. Rather than the (defining and judging of general) “meaning”/“purpose” of (in light of a focus of) what one does not haverather than the pursue of (some) purpose, one instead wants to avoid and prevent one’s current experience (of desperately trying to figure out the right meaning/purpose).

Basically, “greater” in this sense is defined as that which, surpassing the limitations of all other (previous applied) meaning/purpose, will permanently lead the seeker out of Hell (rather than merely providing vacation breaks).

Well… okay, don’t a part of this as me being an asshole (the other part can be taken as a compliment), but this statement, overall (in its full context) is ironically both embarrassingly distorted with oversimplification and a (as vague as it is) spot-on shadow of Nihilism–an inseparable half of the Nihilist, unseen and ever-lurking in his blind spot. “A lack some (greater) meaning/purpose”…maybe to some extent… but yet, as “a general discontent with life”, one is still negatively judging “life” (an objective world) as if its at odds with some “good” (from which one would be content).

You see, it’s not “general discontent with one’s experience”, which, unlike “with life”, can suggest the only meaning (deeming of/thinking) of “life”/“the world”/etc. is “in the eyes of the beholder” (a reflection of an “existential” mindset)–and, from that, one can continue making meanings/purposes for the more concrete goal of avoiding “bad” (as one defines it). Nihilism, as I take your descriptions of it (and most people’s), is still based on, and values–still worships as an absolute/objective good–the quest to understand and live by the ultimate/absolute meaning and purpose to existence.

The Nihilist, like everyone else in Plato’s cave, is on a fruitless quest for that perfect sun. He finds it and stares as it, telling himself it isn’t a sun. It blinds him and only prolongs his misery, but his chest isn’t freezing, so it’s the best meaning he has–he’s stagnant in limbo, denying the existence of his shadowed believer.

It’s a spot on description of Nihilism because that’s pretty much what the philosophy tends to come down to. One is discontent, but one lacks faith in a purpose to alleviate it, so one eventually settled into a general “it doesn’t matter anyway”–it dulls the aches one could not relieve.

You might want to try writing poetry. I mean, as I see it, most of your OPs regarding Nihilism and other “pessimistic” things pretty much are poetry. Though your “revelations” tell of a world of insignificance and hopelessness, the message is quite opposed to their emotional impact, no? How to make sense of the elated intuition of epiphanic meaningless? It cannot truly be sensibly described with words… though you try, you will never adequately philosophically logicize daemon’s “argument”. You are emotionally driven to make sense of his communication, hoping that successfully doing so will produce a map by which you can return to that wonderland. You do very much enjoy writing out your posts, right? The poetry, and your life in general, will be much richer when you realize that daemon is your shadow (the enthusiastic deity of hidden meaning), and the electricity of its handshake was not a lightning bolt of objective wisdom, but your being reborn in the face of the unknowable.

we see a lot of latent nihilism, in that ruling class must actively implement measures suppress to nihilistic tendencies. most any medication is easily attainable, the invention of texting, american idol…criminality of weed is a formality… nihilsm results from an inabiltiy to influence your life in a way that is meaningful and fullfiling , if aforementioned tactics are absent. that guy probably doesnt fly a plane into the irs building if he would have had some zoloft