Well the most basic difference, as I’m sure you are aware, is there need only be one person present for an act of masturbation to take place (though I do wonder if someone isolated would ever develop sexual desires, having never seen an object for such desires) whereas pedophilia needs at least 2. Ethically this need not be an issue but legally it makes all the difference, again, as I’m sure you are aware.
Likewise a homosexual act requires at least 2 people…
no, he’d be learning which place is the right one…
-Imp
this is like asking if rape is immoral.
the world is fucked up enough.
if people dont stop fucking it up it will just become more fucked up.
what sort of society do people want to live in? one person’s action triggers a whole chain of new ones. if everyone just goes around molesting and smacking and killing and stealing…people should get a grip and start realising that their actions will boomerang on them on the long term. I am fucking sick of sick people.
I predict that pedophilia will be the next sexual social trend that comes to life over the course of maybe twenty years. By the time it hits few will be able to explain what is wrong with it, much like the current situation with homosexuality. This will be due to the erosion of previous notions about what right and wrong is, what the nature of consent is, and what a child’s ability to choose is.
This subject has had a voice since “intellectuals†like Allen Ginsberg sang the praises of pedophilic relations in a variety of media. It was suggested that he had many ties to NAMBLA, the secret organization dedicated to sex offenses. One can only imagine what kind and what amount of “professionals†and “artists†they have seeded throughout various important industry.
The Future Starts Today
I think that certain preliminary attitudes are gaining ground that will set the tone for the future. In a previous post I mentioned that a homosexual pedophile got off a corruption of minors, and conspiracy to murder charge, because the boy that he was having sex with told the court that he was in love with the man. The assumption here was that he was indeed in love with the man and not merely brain washed. In a recent case involving a female teacher and a student, there was much discussion about whether or not a male student could be molested at all. The overall view was that males wanted it anyway and so they could not be abused. That clashes with doing what is good for you versus what you want. It also is a direct assault on the concept of being a role model for people that are in an inferior position, and younger, than you. Of course the importance of this topic was fairly annihilated during the Clinton scandal.
I have already discussed how sentencing for children that commit crimes in the US has dramatically been attacked over the last ten or twenty years. I believe that introduced the idea into the public consciousness that children are not as innocent as they seem. That notion is strengthened through the cliché that “kids are growing up fast†in this culture and that they know more than adults. I’m sure that kids living in 1700s Paris probably knew more about the realities of life than any kid growing up today, but that is rarely considered. Anyway, the “growing up fast†notion does suggest that one might want to help them along a bit and “get them on the right track†so to speak with sex and whatever else springs to mind.
Here’s what will happen:
Consent: The age of consent will be attacked and further eroded based on what I just wrote above. The argument techniques used will be an appeal to emotion and love. This will work because we already see it working on the brainless (sorry) crowd here at ILP. This is nothing uncommon as I have hear it everywhere I go. Consent will go from informed, meaning that a person can understand the scope of a relationship, to mere consent that requires a smile and a report that they enjoyed the experience.
One of the supportive arguments that will go along with the appeal to emotion will be an attack on the notion of understanding a relationship. People will say that not even some adults understand relationships and who always needs relationships anyway! Lots of people have flings or just like dating for sexual reasons and they aren’t thinking about the future, and so forth. Sex with a kid will be ok because most people aren’t really that informed about their relationships to begin with and do tend to enjoy casual dating, so why can’t a kid. That will be the argument.
Those arguments will be strengthened by another erosion that we see right now. Many people here and in casual society view sex as a recreational activity that is fun and or romantic, and that’s it. Tickling a kid’s belly is fun. You have the attack, the pleasurable giggling, and then ultimately they can’t take it anymore and then you stop. The kid and you then have a nice memory of a tickle fight. I know from working with sex offenders that if they see, or make, a kid have an erection then they believe that that is a form of consent and that the kid is enjoying themselves. So, what is the big difference between a tickle fight and a bought of sexual contact?
That is the logic that will be used, as in much of the public consciousness all meaning has been taken out of the bonding and ultimate point of that bonding from sexual intercourse.
Groundwork:
narth.com/docs/pedophNEW.html
If any of my predictions are true and you want to fight these trends then I suggest that you familiarize yourself with how to think like an ethical person and to develop a view of just how people should be treating each other and more importantly WHY they should. If you are religious then think through, rather than just accept, the principles that you have been taught. Most importantly, think about what may be behind politically correct bamboozlement before you buy the program.
Sort of
By what standard?
There is the possibility of the maintenance of the present level of fucked up ness
You might as well ask everyone to write a poem…
Ergo you are a sick person and are therefore sick of yourself. Your sort of ‘philosophy’ only perpetuates cycles of pain and anger…
Maybe phedophilia will not be as ‘controversial’ and ‘scandalous’ as Suburban Mother Adlerian here puts it =- because it will have ‘grown up’ considerably.
Yes - pedophilia - will no longer be a Social Sin
Colinsign,
You need to increase the brain power before shooting any insults my way.
Also, thanks for validating my post.
So, what type of business will you go into when you grow up?
Two quick notes:
The NARTH article in question also refers to Dr. Laura Schlesinger at the very beginning; right, there’s someone whose authority we really want to follow… 
For the record, the article’s claim that the APA’s definition could exclude pedophiles who don’t feel bad about their actions is disingenouous. Here is what the DSM-IV says:
The person has acted on these sexual urges or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.
Moreover, in its description of pedophilia, the DSM-IV-TR uses the term “use excuses” and “rationalization” to describe some of the common excuses pedophiles make for their behaviour. We know what these terms mean–especially the latter one regarding psychological functioning, so we can see what the APA is saying about such excuses.
Now re-read the quote above many times to understand why we have to be careful about blindly following hysteria-induced agendas. That is, if the wording were any closer to what NARTH wants, then if you have ever had a brief fantasy about someone under the age of legal consent, you would have a mental disorder. Again, think about that very slowly and carefully. Now breathe. Now come back to reality. It’s okay. It will all be okay. Good. Breathe. Yes…yes…yes…You’ll be fine now…
As Public Enemy would proclaim: “Don’t Believe the Hype!”
What did they write? Here:
So when psychiatry decided to redefine homosexuality as normal, it moved the condition from one category labeled “undesirable” to another category labeled “desirable.” (4) It did so based on a study showing that a selected group of homosexual individuals evidenced no obvious psychological abnormality (5), and also as a result of listening to personal testimony from a number of gay people who were happy with their homosexuality.
So maybe now the natterting ninnies out there put certain things in perspective…thirst, are you reading this? (I really don’t care about other ninnies…)
‘insults’ = I never insulted dear Adlerian!
I just find your homebaking philosophy too sweet.
Why waste brain power on scandal, which is all I think you philosophical thinking is!
Colinsign,
“I just find your homebaking philosophy too sweet.”
If suggesting that having sex with children is wrong and “too sweet” for you, then I can only imagine your current diet and taste.
Back to the topic
Sex offenders:
I have done indepth analysis of a huge volume of these people. Mostly, they were black and white males, and almost none of them have been able to articulate any significant distress over the issue. Perhaps they can give the socially acceptable explanations, but I have never heard complex understanding.
If people like that can get the population to share their frivolus views, then they have won.
share their frivolus views? - what views exactly? that the child ‘wanted to have sex or intercourse’
Do you really think the world population with all molest their children in the name of freedom and liberation? Do you really think their is some kind of Global-Pervert-Agenda?
Do you always patronise children to the point of gross intellectual abuse?
I am imitating Adlerian:
Once upon a time all our children were taught in electrified schools with electrified fences, educated in solitary rooms, via computers and computer screens. The children will be kept in the dark regarding any dangerous of life and any ‘social complexities’ or ‘grey areas’ that may result from experiential learning or actually coming into contact with another human being.
The children will grow restless and wild. They will learn the horros of reality via computerised understanding. They will learn everything wihtout any human contact.And, then, filled with the pressure of centuries of repressed energy the children shall break out of the schools and shall molest and abuse their parents, shall slaughter them, shall bugger and rape and demeen the tiny, immature, infantile ADULTS, who hid from the reality of reality and swaddled a Nation in Absolute Sanity - were nothing could be touched, or hurt, or broken and everything was electrified.
I don’t condone pedophilia one bit. But nor do I condone salacious scandal!
If your child cuts its knee - deal with it! Don’t cauterise it bloody soul with parental selfpity, don’t swaddle it in its own victimhood. Give it some bloody spine!! Be honest with them. Compare your wounds!!
colinsign,
That was brilliant.
You should consider emailing your ideas directly to NAMBLA headquarters, perhaps they will let you open a European chapter.
My take is that when I was a kid, I wanted to be a victim of pedophila (I was attracted to women over 18, duh) and I was myself a pedophile in that as a 12 year old, I was deeply and authentically attracted to 12 year old girls, the way they looked, acted, everything. Now as a man am I just supposed to shut that attraction off? It doesn’t naturally go away. What happens is you realize as a sensitive person that it probably isn’t a good idea. But I don’t think it’s so fucked up they made it taboo. I think BECAUSE it’s so taboo, it adds a trauma that wouldn’t have been there, were the taboo not there. Why is the taboo there: because perhaps in a majority of cases children, being smaller and less experienced, were raped or tricked or manipulated in some way. So, as is the case with so much in life, the majority cases impose a tyranny on the minority – those cases where, for instance, a kid like me would have been JUST FINE with my art teacher doing me, not just at 12, but as early as 8, I would have been fine – I knew PRECISELY what sex was then, it hasn’t changed for me. I get it. I’m not afraid it. Now let’s get it on and then pronate with a pizza afterwards. I think a lot of kids get it. But the privilege of sex is denied because the majority of cases, the door was opened to adults that would abuse power. So the lesser of two evils was to err on the side of safety, and I think that’s the right decision. And I also think those adults that would manipulate or force a child OR adult into sex should face legal consequences. But of course sex manipulation occurs every day among adults and no one cares.
But this idea of morality is a sticking point. no such thing as morals. It’s illegal to rape kids. It’s hypocritical to hurt others, since you too are an other, and doing so doesn’t serve our empathetic tendencies as humans. If you have no empathy – stay away from me and my kids.
Sexual thoughts of minors, children, Tinkerbell, a grapefruit, your mom, it’s all the same and I think it’s important to say that nobody should be ashamed of their thoughts. As long as they don’t lead to harmful actions, have a field day.
Addendum: Sadly I have to point out a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia involving prepubescents. Both practices are utterly removed from the pull toward reproduction. Certainly some heterosexual attraction after puberty also contains a big element that has nothing to do with reproduction, but the ATTRACTION as probably hardwired and directed by the fact of reproduction. Homosexuality and pedophilia is not. Therefore, if someone has a propensity for sexuality removed from reproduction, it means they can be aroused by things that can’t have babies, and this opens the door to the possibility of being attracted to children.
Adlerian: You should consider emailing your ideas directly to NAMBLA headquarters, perhaps they will let you open a European chapter.
You should consider baking cakes - enough of half baked ideas/paranoia.
As for sex offeneders, sure, they should face legal consequences. Like I said: I don’t condone or support pedophilia.
I also agree with Gamer - that being a taboo is itself part of the trauma!! I think this taboo has forced many adults to remain as children and many children to jump into adulthood. Both becoming - opened ended ‘vitctims’ and ‘disaster survivors’.
‘Above all refuse to be a victim’ - Margaret Atwood
Adlerian - what exactly do you believe? That there is some world agenda to molest children? what age do you define as a child? I mean, the age of consent varies place to place as it is…
Gamer,
The thing that’s wrong about relationships with children or even a mentally retarded person with a child-like mentality is that in no way will the relationship be about two equal people.
Humans seem to enjoy friendships that involve doing things together, talking, exploring, and enjoying mutual activities. Friendship tends to involve some level of equality and I suggest that this is why people of the same age tend to be friends. One can encounter a person vastly older or more experienced than themselves and become friends, but really such a relationship is like teacher and student more frequently than not.
So, a child and an adult that engage in a sexual relationship are very unlikely to ever become friends, as they have almost nothing in common. A 40 year old man and an eight year old are not compatible for anything other than a father/son relationship.
Living in a world where children can count on adults to be instructional and helpful teaches them to model this behavior for younger people as they get older. We can see that children of divorce tend to suffer anger, depression, and cynicism about relationships via the poor example that their parents have set for them. So, I think that’s it’s natural that a child would suffer distress as a result of feeling used by a person that did not intent to, nor could have been, their friend and should have been their teacher.
Finally, I believe that “taboos†never come first, but rather they tend to be based on observations of what happens to people in a certain set of circumstances. They then take on the minimization oriented title of “taboo†after most people have forgot the set of circumstances that initiated the “taboo†to begin with. We are now living in an era when we are discovering a lot about that.
When is a change in what people consider right and wrong an “erosion”?
For example here are two beliefs.
1 was more common historically, while 2 is a more contemporary American belief.
Is belief 2 an erosion from belief 1?
As to the whole nambla thing - that was way back when homosexuality was seen as EVIL.
the use of ‘boy’ is open to scrunity! i don’t think it necessarily reffered to ‘little boys’.
for example, these days in scotland, 16 years of age is legal consent for homosexual sex.
back in Ginsberg days - having sex with a 16yearold or at that age - would have been seen as a grossly immoral act. worthy of castration perhaps.
O Addie - I suggest you lock your doors and pray to Allah, ‘for the world’s more full of weeping than you can understand.’
nonsense. can you even prove that? If anything it will be a break down by consent.
Next would be ebophilia then pedophilia. But really I don’t think any parent would be ok with their 8 or 9 year old kids having sex with old men.
And I think that will stand in this country for A LONG LONG time. As far as the age of consent lowering? not likely. Even the most fundamentalist liberals in the US wouldn’t want their 14 - 17 year old kids banging the 45 year old neighbor.
Ebophilia is already apparently legal in Canada, the age of consent is 14 (thanks dr. s)
This goes back to the differing of sexuality though. Not all pedophilias are strictly homo or hetero sexual, so tying the two together is pure specious BS.
Here’s another tidbit to chew on. Every change that society has gone through has been met with confrontation and resistance.
The examples Xanderman lists are good, there was also when people started marrying for love instead of connecting families. The conservatives thought it would be the end of the institution of marriage.
In some ways they were right. Marrying for love has completely changed and refaced the institution of marriage.
absolutely. I just put an order in for her book “the ten commandments.” vital stuff for living in the twenty first century.
xanderman,
I believe that we live in a very media driven culture and that it can have great affect on people and their life style.
I point to the 90s trend of getting tattoos and piercings. Previous to that time tatoos were seen at best as odd and at worst as a form of self-mutilation. Then, they became the big trend on TV and music representing self-expression and counter culture acumen. So, self-mutilation became cool, for a time. Now, more than a decade later, one of the “hotest†trends in dermatology is laser tattoo removal! So, it can be concluded that a lot of people were “sold†self-mutilation like they were sold an expensive pair of sneakers that they later found out didn’t fit too well. All at pain and expense I might add.
Recently, right here, we found out that the removal of homosexuality from the category of mental illness was a plot by homosexuals (you can follow the link at the end of my post to find out more) to subvert the system. Now due to that move about 99% of the country thinks that it is either normal behavior or an inborn trait. This propaganda has done harm because pathways to homosexuality that involve abuse are now being completely ignored.
Advertising works!
“can you even prove that?”
I said that I predict it.
Watch closely as I prove that I predict it!
oooooo!
woow wooow!
Ahhhhh!
I predict it!
I am predicting a trend that I think that I see will come true!
I am imagining how different elements will fall into place and I must say that it will be well-meaning people like you defending the Romanesque freak trend that has been gaining ground.