I mean people who are deprived and who need to learn to love again and to live.
I was having a discussion with a man on the rant house where my last discussion was banished to (well I like that place it is not a banishment to Siberia) but he did not understand anything about love except if he could bow and if everything had been lost, destroyed ruined and lost again, then alone could he love again and learn God.
I believe him
But is this not intensely sick to teach children? It is like giving a child a machine-gun because you would only use it if you had lost so much… and say “here is the answer to the word this is what you must love or you will be nothing”. Okay bad analogy, the machine-gun.
But to give a religion to a child is sick. It must be if religion comes from being deprived which the religious guy said to me. I said that children are the ones who should be teaching their deprived parents, these parents should not teach their children… to also be deprived… but that is how the religious world works.
I do think religion is for sick people. That’s why I’m a Buddhist, for instance. If I didn’t have any problems, why would I bother to cultivate compassion and wisdom?
But what makes you have such a high opinion of children? Do you think if you dropped a bunch of children on a desert island they would have no problems, essentially living a heavenly existence?
Religion is typically understood to be an anesthetic taken by people who believe that things are meaningless and best enjoyed in as enjoyable a manner as possible, which means believing in simple senseless things instead of observing the big (depressing) picture. Most “non-religious” people even say that if there is any purpose or meaning, which there probably isn’t, there will never be a way for people to find out. I think that this is because religions try to confuse people’s understanding of scientific practice and scientific outlook. There are lots of meaningful questions that simply can’t be determined through experimental means, but that doesn’t mean that the concepts are scientifically unsound. Religion as it is commonly practiced is obviously meant for people who have lost all hope, but there’s no reason why honest people shouldn’t try to find reason in the nature of things too.
“Hell is other people.”-- Sartre. In other words, there will always be someone who considers you sick for not being them. Geeze, I’m sick not trying to be them. But–only in recognition of sickness is there any prospect of healing.
Anon’s “Lord of the Flies” reference is accurate. What we see in children is honesty. They have to learn to lie. Honesty can include good and evil. Children are innocent,whether we see wat they do as good or bad. Religion, if it’s worth its salt, includes that understanding as does not impose dogma on those who simply need love and acceptance.
“The child is father to the man” is Wordsworth’s mythology. It is romanticism in extravagance. It is no proof of morality or immortality.
It is or isn’t depending on how you look at it. For the sake of this thread I’m saying it IS a religion. I’m saying I’m sick and in need of medicine; therefore, I’m a buddhist.
I think Buddhism may be looked at as both a religion and a philosophy at the same time…though I’m not so sure that Confucius himself would have named it a religion. For myself, it is a philosophy and a practical way to look at life and to attain wisdom and truth. It has a strong spiritual dimension to it which doesn’t necessarily speak to religion. I would prefer to keep it out of the realm of the religious. It’s a beautiful way of experiencing life though one certainly does not need to see a god within it.
And one does not necessarily have to ‘be sick’ to practice a religion. One may be very self-aware, devout to a god and to other human beings through their religion. The sick aspect only enters into it if the individual ‘uses’ god as a crutch or as a drug or even a placebo - in place of seeing a god who is fully present in the moment and their self as a reflection of that. Well, that’s one aspect of it - perhaps the only one that counts.
“Sick” is a strong word. I was just running with it. Also, I kind of like the term “religio-philosophy”. I do think Buddhism is kind of a hybrid in that sense, especially as non-essential concepts (delusions, even) are typically incorporated as “skillful means”. There is not truth on the one side and delusion on the other, because there is no access to truth without delusion.
I would also suppose that in not labeling, we may come to know the truth sooner…or at least glimpse it.
But wouldn’t other religions be a hybrid of Buddhism?
I’m not sure it’s that simple. Labeling is a discipline that encourages seeing, in order to properly label. Of course at some point that discipline can become a hindrance, rather than a help - i.e. when the point becomes labeling, and not seeing.
Yeah fair enough. But Buddhism places at least the virtues here and now, and not in heaven and out of reach for normal people.
If there is one thing children are good at it is being in awe and overwhelmed and feeling like the world is one big mystery and this is the only use for religion in my eyes this is the humility, the only humility worth anything, pure spontaneous awe instead of religion from a book which is the total opposite. But for hunting they would need adults or at least be like 14 or 16… so to be alone on an island as only toddlers no, no heaven. Just death.
I only say that religion is for the weak and sick and it is unfair to force it on a child and condition him by this horse medicin. The only good thing for children about religion is maybe Christmas but that is a pagan ritual anyway to welcome the Sun who comes back. The Sun is real, God not.
And what makes you believe the Sun is “real”, faith-hating atheist scientologist who believes Science is God?
Define God, faith-hating atheist scientologist.
If you cannot Define Him, then it’s all very simple. You’re not in a position to say He is real or unreal.
Without a definition, all you expose is your own jealousy and lack of power, concerning religion. You envy that control over millions of people, want it for yourself, but can’t admit this to yourself? You want power, but don’t want to sacrifice for it, barbarian?
Power entails much sacrifice. And you sound too selfish to ever understand anything close to religious principles.
This is pretty complicated what you are saying or at least unclear. I like the last sentence. There is a reason in the nature of things and it is not God but it is the nature of the things themselves. As the Greatest philosopher I ever knew said: all things are rooted in themselves. I became enlightened when I looked at the world like that and especially at people. They are rooted in themselves nothing else is necessary to understand them.
I think many parents are in awe of their child. More in awe of it than of God. And right they are a child exists, God not.
Bowing to the ground to give away your responsibility for your life because it is too hard for you. Crybabies. Folding hands at the altar.
I am not against crying babies of course! It is an expression. Crying is great. Also if you are not a baby I mean “It is not my fault God did it!! He made me the way I am I am forgiven!!!” No. You’re not forgiven your not even blamed except by yourself. (not you, the religious person who bows)
Yeah maybe Ghandi but he was killed by religious people so… anyway ‘devout’ what does that mean… just live man, devout… as if you can be detached from life and still life… maybe it is preventing people from committing suicide and being un-devout to themselves. But then don’t teach your children the thing that is keeping you from suicide. It’s sick sick sick, worse than 666.
Well I like to see it the other way around if I am fully present I see my self seeing the word and the world seeing me. There is no room for God the world is already full to the brim with me in it. I think no one invents or believes in God because of presence, just in the real universe because it is great.
God is great they say well I say great is great, god is god.
Well maybe I believe that the sun is real because it shines in my face when I wake up and it hurts when I look into it? Yeah… real scientific of me. (For people who now think I am in scientology I am not I assure you though I like Tom Cruise movies they are usually strong pieces of work.)
God = invention of sick people to feel like they are powerful because they are sick.
I sacrifice your God. Not because I want more power but because I have compassion for the children who will live after I am dead. It is not about me I am free of God or the need of him so… wrong priestman. You can never understand unless you free yourself what compassion means to me or what other humans make me think about.
Yeah that’s right. I am too honest about being selfish to be like you and hide it behind my superior father who tortures his son and forces him to call that holy.
Shit yeah now I see the link… every christian is bound to torture his son and force him to torture his own son!! Heavy duty badness. A whole memetic cyclus designed to break down the work of nature going on for ages… Arrg man will be lower than ape someday if religion wins… Jesus… God! Yo, thanks for stepping in and showing what religion is because people were thinking it is relatively innocent and just a medicin.
So you can’t actually blame religious people for being converted by their parents it is maybe even in their genes. But it perpetuates the sickness I swear it is a serious issue. Why do you need to lose everything? The world is full of wonders herself I know, and I am not religious, I seek and go where my heart takes me and it always shows me new light.
Why God the invisible Ghost? Ask yourself why would this be good? Good for what? In one thing we can be sure it is not good for the visible world. Because it takes away the attention of it and makes it into something bad.
I would say Buddhism is an antireligion it tells you to look into the world of matter. At least one time I did a Buddhist meditation course and I was told to sit up straight with open eyes and let my thoughts exist if they wished but not pursue them.
But God is found when you pursue a thought and dont look. Like: “yeah so this is here now, but I dont understand? Ummm… welll it must be because it is caused by something that I dont understand but which is ununderstandable so that it is not my fault that I dont understand. Yes the world is meant to be dark and incomprehensible and cruel and senseless.” This is what the religious mind thinks but the world is not meant to be this way, if it is meant it is meant by itself which means that it is good, to itself and all that exists because of it and which wants to exist.