Is science in chaos?

Science in chaos………

I have just finished reading a book called The Complete World of Human Evolution, by Chris Stringer and Peter Andrews. It is a Thames and Hudson publication, and therefore intended for the popular, but educated, market. Stringer is Head of Human Origins at the Natural History Museum, London, and Andrews formerly held the same position. Both have been active in the field of palaeoanthropology for several decades…….impeccable credentials, then.

My overall impression? CHAOS. They write with such authoritative confidence, putting in just enough phrases like, “there remains some controversy over this”, and “there is some uncertainty”, and “some researchers doubt” etc to give the impression that the authors are carefully making it clear just where there is and is not doubt, controversy or uncertainty. And that then leads one to conclude that, on the whole, much has been discovered about human origins, that great progress is being made, that the science is in a healthy condition and that, in a nutshell, we can be confident that the scientists have got everything under control …………. nothing could be further form the truth.

If you can see past the tone of confident authority, and if you can avoid being bamboozled or mesmerised by the ‘naming of parts’ and the minutiae of classification etc, then you realise that palaeoanthropology is in complete chaos, and they know nothing, or nothing SIGNIGICANT, more now than they did 50 years ago when just a few souls, like the Leakey’s, were scouring the wildernesses of the world to find specks and scraps of old bones, teeth etc.

There are now countless bits of bone (though more often than not, a fossil is represented by just one tooth, or maybe a tooth and a couple of bone fragments), and there are a plethora of new techniques for dating them or extracting more information from them, such as the various radioactive measurement techniques, DNA studies, studies of the effects of various causes of wear and tear on teeth and bones, electron microscope examination, etc etc, and yet there is not one of these new techniques which is not doubtful, which does not have in-built suppositions or assumptions or unacceptably large sources of error, such that it can be used with any degree of certainty ---- and that includes genetic studies.

In fact, palaeoanthropology is a war zone with the battles lines laid down, alliances made, and forces drawn up to fight for one theory or another, one technique or another. And rather than one winner emerging, it seems that with every new find, and every new technique for analyses discovered the war zone fragments, more battle lines are drawn and more chaos is created…………… there is a familiarity about this……………

A couple of thousand years ago, philosophers thought to find answers to some of the Big Questions, and, remembering that philosophy back then included the beginnings of what we now call science, they thought that , either by pure reason, or by empirical investigation, they could come to know and understand the world, its origins, and the laws that, supposedly, govern its development. Later ‘natural philosophy’ broke off from the main body of philosophy, and with its own peculiar approach to acquiring knowledge distanced itself from philosophy and became science. From the dizzy heights of its apparent success it then looked back on its parent with scorn.

Philosophers soldiered on, but they eventually had to admit that, despite their best efforts, they could not answer any of the questions that they had set out to answer, could not, in fact, answer ANY questions. They dealt with this by retreating to the position that answers are not important and that it is actually the questions themselves that are interesting!!?? More recently, ably led by Wittgenstein, they have retreated still further: now it is neither answers nor questions that are important, but the thinking, the philosophising itself.

(I cannot forbear to point out that there is something of a conundrum here: philosophising cannot answer questions. It can, we are told, elucidate the situation and that is its importance. So, it can elucidate the situation, but not so as to enable questions to be answered? Question: does philosophy REALLY elucidate the situation, or does it actually confuse the issue? Does it tease out too many threads which actually do not need to be teased out and only end up creating a fankle?)

Anyway, to return to the main thread I am following: philosophers have created a chaos of ideas, concepts and theories and, in the face of never being able to come to any conclusions, have retreated to the position that, as I said, it is the philosophising itself that is important. Is science, then, I wonder, going the same way as its parent?

As far as I can see, the newer sciences particularly, are fragmenting in the same way as philosophy has done and are beginning to find it harder and harder to claim to be able to come to any definite conclusions. In this regard, I read a book on evolution recently, see my post XXXX, in which the authors stated that they were adopting the latest approach to teaching their subject, and that was to present all sides of the arguments. Ie the emphasis is on ARGUMENT, not on conclusions.

So, just as philosophy, in the face of being unable to come to any conclusions, retreated first to placing the emphasis on the questions, some of the sciences, faced with being unable to come to any conclusions, are retreating to placing the emphasis on the argument.

Trying to figure out what is going on here is not actually so straight forward. I have accused philosophers and scientists of retreating in response to perceived failure, but I do not think that is actually what is going on. It is not a matter of perceived failure, it is something else.

After all, this problem of there being multiple theories and nothing to choose between them has been around for a long time, and it has not always halted progress.

Consider one of the older sciences, eg physics. I am sure that most people who have an acquaintance with the subject are under the illusion that it is a lot more solid and certain than it actually is.

If we start with Newton: Newton postulated that all things remain at rest, or in a state of constant motion, unless acted on by a force. This was merely one of a whole raft of options set out by the ancient Greeks and others, and Newton, or one of his contemporaries, could have chosen any one of the others with equal justification. (The most obvious one is the opposite to Newton: that change is normal and that it is constant motion or staying at rest that has to be accounted for.) Why did Newton chose the option he did? I do not know, but I would guess that it was the maths, that it was mathematically the simplest option.

At any rate, the point is that there were, and potentially still could be, multiple theories to compete with Newtonian physics. However, physicists did not hang around. They went for Newton and to this day Newtonian physics is taught as though it was the only option. This story repeats and repeats throughout the history of physics. Even Einstein had competitors that have disappeared from sight. So, despite the existence of many options, physics did not fragment and become merely a battleground for competing theories. (That situation may be changing: there is certainly plenty of controversy concerning string theory and other aspects of the search for the fundamentals of the universe.)

In the past (to be found in some of my older posts) I have criticised scientists for backing theories when they have insufficient evidence (Quantum Theory, e.g., was adopted, on a vote, before there was ANY evidence to justify it.). I begin to think I over-simplified the situation.

Whereas it may be true that there are other approaches to gaining an understanding of the world, if you do choose to take the scientific approach then you had better choose the methodological options that work. Philosophy has shown the consequences of allowing one’s subject to fragment: it just reduces to a battleground where people slog it out and never actually ever come to any conclusions, never produce any result beyond more battle-fodder i.e. more schisms, more ‘angles’ and theories etc.

Whether good or bad, whether truth or myth, science has, thus far, produced results. I would suggest that that is down to the fact that, thus far, scientists have been able to make up their minds, have been willing to unite and stand their ground. The current trend, however, has science fragmenting in the same way as philosophy before it, and I would predict the same result: scientists will retreat from seeking results to someplace where they are satisfied with arguing and thinking that they are throwing more light on situations. Under those circumstances, science will stop producing results — no more ‘medical advances’, no more new technology, no T.O.E. etc etc.

I disagree …science is science…it is not in chaos…it will not go away…

Well I certainly agree that science won’t go away — it will persist in following us around like some horrible mangy mut that you kick and throw stones at but it just won’t go away.

I think at it heart science is misunderstood for a couple of reasons.
The basic reason is this idea of probabilities, chance and the role they
play in science. Evolution is as certain a theory as we have and yet
the idea of evolution is predicated on chance, probability. There is no scientific theory
that is 100% guaranteed to be right or accurate. We have yes/no, black/white, cat/dog people
in a world that is doesn’t break down that way. We have doubt, uncertainty in every single theory
of the universe we have. Nothing, but nothing is 100% certain. It is difficult to be sure when the
universe is probability and chance. You say we are sure everything dies, yet you have no evidence for that
statement because we cannot know for sure because we only have our little world for evidence. We have our
assumptions for the universe but they are just assumptions, which are really just guesses.
If science retreats it is because they became afraid of the abyss of uncertainty. How long can
we stand there and stare into the abyss of chance, probability and know they are the key factors in our lives?
People accept god and religion because they are afraid of the possibilities that exist within chance and probability.
Accept god and you aren’t staring into the abyss anymore. your needs are met and you don’t need to sweat about
the true state of the universe which is chance and probability. Those who weakly accept god and religion accept from
fear of the universe. They want the falsehood of certainty instead of the truth of the universe which is chance rules
the universe. Our true god is probability and chance and that leaves people uncomfortable and nervous.

Kropotkin

By defining inertia in that way, Newton gave a means by which one could identify when a force was applied and provide a means of measuring that force. In part, a force is measured by how much change in motion it introduces. Newton found a way to apply mathematics to forces and motion, simply or not. Newton also showed how one does not have to find absolute motion in order to use physics: he showed how we could consider the center of mass of a system and how if everything was moving parallel in a certain direction, it would not effect the calculations. He also showed that acceleration in parallel would not effect the calculations. And he even went so far as to show that even if all the accelerations were not exactly the same amount and direction, the effect could be very small and that we could still rely on approximations in our physics.

The test of Newton’s physics was whether or not applying these measurements produced robust results, results that were accurate (to an approximation) and that persisted or got better over time. Newton’s rules for fluids failed this miserably, but his mechanics soldiered on.

People played around with alternatives to Newton’s mechanics constantly. They just did not do as well as Newtonian mechanics. There is quite a rich history of these alternatives and the testing that went into them. In particular, many of these alternative laws of gravity were developed to explain the orbit of Mercury.

A guy named Harper recently published a book on Newton’s methods and testing. It seems a bit pricy, but it might be in your library. It has been said that it is somewhat anachronistic in its description of some of Newton, so you might want to take a look at the sources.

I am surprised I didn’t see this earlier, science is the study of chaos. Science is taking disorder and trying to put
it into order. For science to be in chaos is no problem, for science is also really, really young. think about it and
you understand that science is very young. The theory of science is not much older, for example Francis Bacon lived
from 1561 to 1626 and he is one of the leading founders of scientific theory. At most, science is 400 years old.
To understand where science is today, you have to understand where science has been, its history.

Kropotkin

The chaotic mind sees nothing but chaos.

The effort of (real) Science is to construct an ontology that can be relied upon via demonstration of its reliability. But if you ask monkeys to build a house, you might do well to expect that the frame will not be truly square for a very long time. And it might well completely fall down more than once.

Kropotkin is right.

What distinguishes real Science from the more ancient thoughts is the demand to repeatably demonstrate, “show us all that your conjecture can be depended upon. THEN we will accept it”.

You are spouting rubbish and scientific propaganda. Actually religious appraoches to understanding/knowing the universe are not founded on fear. They are founded on a profoundly different concept of reality and one which is much more sophisticated than that espoused by science. But your belittlement of religious ways of knowing are just the traditional ploys of scientists who have been squaring up to, and trying to obliterate, the competition = religion.

This is wrong. There is just so much wrong with it, so many underlying assumptions, that it would take too much effort to respond fully. I have tried to explain in other posts, but actually, explanation is premature for this reason: one’s understanding of the universe is intimately and necessarily bound up with the state of development of one’s mind. The mind that is exemplified by the scientist is too poor to understand the universe at a higher level — that is why science was invented: people’s minds degraded (power addiction) to the level where they required a simpler approach to understanding the universe, one which gives a false view of the universe but nevertheless satisfies people’s needs. The chaotic mind needs simplicity and rules; that’s what science gives you. The real universe it far, far more complicated and needs to be to satisfy a healthy, well-developed mind.

Really? I’ve looked at a lot of religions. Religious people get pretty sophisticated only when they try to weasel out of the problem of evil. They will work really, really hard to try to get you to avoid thinking about how shitty their supposed god behaves.

Science, on the other hand, gets incredibly sophisticated. One doesn’t have to look at modern physics, the work that went into establishing Newtonian mechanics required very careful measurements, comparisons, and careful thought about the relationships of the objects involved.

In what way is religion in competition with science? Religion offers slavery in return for demonstrably false platitudes (unless you are one of the few who gets to be the slave master). Science offers the promise that one can actually do something in the world, a promise backed up with a history of success.

Peter Kropotkin: I think at it heart science is misunderstood for a couple of reasons.
The basic reason is this idea of probabilities, chance and the role they
play in science. Evolution is as certain a theory as we have and yet
the idea of evolution is predicated on chance, probability. etc.

D: You are spouting rubbish and scientific propaganda. Actually religious appraoches to understanding/knowing the universe are not founded on fear. They are founded on a profoundly different concept of reality and one which is much more sophisticated than that espoused by science. But your belittlement of religious ways of knowing are just the traditional ploys of scientists who have been squaring up to, and trying to obliterate, the competition = religion.:

K: OK, I said not a word about religion, Reread what I wrote and you will see I only spoke about science. As for the “Rubbish and propaganda”
part, I would say those are your issues. I don’t believe that religion is “more sophisticate” in outlook then science. Religion is very bad way
to look at the universe because it is not based on reality, only on projections of one’s mind, as it is with yours. I see a rock and it is a rock,
you may see a rock and see god, theology, heaven and hell, sin… Personally I can without the metaphysics in life.

Kropotkin

Modern Science (unlike the real thing) is no more or less than just the new religion.

Children require religion, regardless of their age and even when they fear calling it “religion”. So they call it “Science, what big people believe in”.

Barring “unlike the real thing”, I would say I agree with you. I am curious to know what you consider to be the “real thing” and how it differs from modern science. But as to dismissing religion as something required by children: no, you have it the wrong way round — in fact, it’s not even the wrong way round: even healthy children would be too sophisticated to be fobbed off with science. Science is for minds that have suffered degradation. It is for those with learning difficulties and for those who are autistic.

Strange. A lot of people who studied science with me seemed to be really bright. Some of them could be considered brilliant.

There was quite a bit of social ineptness. LOL

is science in chaos…not if you understand science… and life in general…

You confuse virtuosity, or expertise, with intelligence. You confuse a sort of febrile brain activity with intelligence. You confuse knowledge with understanding. You take the perpetrators of these lies at their own estimation.

I rather imagine you are looking to scientists for an understanding of science. Bad move. You will find no understanding of science among scientists. They are far too narrow, far too expert. Understanding requires that you see science from the outside and in context in our culture, and you will not understand science unless you also understand art, history, shop keeping, religion and just about everything els as well.

you are imagining wrong…where are you coming from…

James is what people call a “crank” or “crackpot”. (See math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html ) Though he hasn’t actually learned physics, he has his own fantasy version of physics and he tries to peddle it to other people, I assume to bolster his self-esteem.

I agree that science can help these people.

Either you understood her post and you are being facetious or you didn’t understand.
Which is it? :-k