Is the Clock Ticking for the USA as We've Known it?

Is the USA a ship that is sinking, or is the country just going through a very rough spot?

Signs of possible trouble:

  • The country was directly attacked and it’s attackers main goal is destruction of the national capital and the nations largest city

  • The civil liberties of it’s citizens show the signs of movement toward centralized power through items such as national ID cards, Patriot act, hostile judiciary, executive branch expansion, etc…

  • American workers in some industries must compete with a global peer who commands a thrid less and yet enjoys rising standard of living.

  • Over 11 million people exist in the country with no government classification other than the word ‘alien’.

  • The presidency is or is almost a timocracy. Estimates are that the winning candidate will have spent over 100 million to before spending the night on Penn Ave.

  • The income gap appears to be at it’s widest in many decades. Over 40 million people do not have health insurance, forcing the middle class to pick up the bill.

  • There has been talk of rising debt levels such that future generations of Americans will pay for todays citizenry.

With all that said, an American has to wonder if the glory days are over.

Amerika is fukt.

The Oracle speaks:

“Dynastic wealth, the enemy of a meritocracy, is on the rise. Equality of opportunity has been on the decline,” Buffett said. “A progressive and meaningful estate tax is needed to curb the movement of a democracy toward plutocracy”

Warren Buffett 11/14/2007

another revolution over taxes is what we need.

-Imp

Everything changes. If anyone believes this country cannot suffer growing pains or dying pains then they need to hike their butt back to school. We are going to hurt but, some will survive.

All great empires eventually must fall… but I don’t think our time is up just yet.

Maybe not, but it’s soon not gonna be the same as it was before.

Perhaps we are headed down the Roman path, the republic will die and Caesar will come.

Or it could be that Mexico City changes it’s name to South New York.

This will come as a shock to many, but people who live in countries other than the US - yes, second-rate countries - somehow manage to live satisfying lives.

Life in the US has always been changing. Maybe the Empire will fall. Learn Chinese, and make your garden grow. And quit worrying about it. There is no reason to think it will come any time soon.

One attack (two, if you count Pearl Harbor) in a couple of hundred years isn’t call for mass hysteria.

National ID cards? You’re really upset about national ID cards? What do you think a driver’s license is? I’m not sure of the state of information sharing among states, but the reason it’s maybe not so good is only that the states have been so lackadaisical about it. I have gotten away with a few things (years ago) because of it. Do you just want to get away with something? Pleeese. Don’t many countries already do this?

Hostile judiciary? That’s a judgement call. They aren’t hostile to me. My last charge was filed without a finding. Or pretrail probation, I guess. Worked for me.

Of course they enjoy a rising standard of living. Any job at all would be a rise in SOL. We’re not complaing about our standard of living, are we? That’s laughable.

Yeah, we got aliens. And an outmoded immigration policy. That’s not really barbarians at the gate - it’s just a stupid policy.

Future generations pay for today’s citizenry all the time. Debt has been too high before, and the chicken littles have cried about it before. The debt does need to come down, I agree.

“It’s worse than it ever was, and getting worse yet”. I’ve heard it all before.

It’s not perfect, but it never was. Things need to improve, but the end is not yet near. The US economy has been, for a hundred years, the most robust of any large economy in the world. Would you really like to trade places with China? You have to look past last week and next week to know this. And you have to just say “no” to CNN.

Oh - an addendum. Find a Japanese-American who was interred during WWII and ask him if he thinks the Patriot Act is draconian.

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Solving things without war is the only thing worth learning. Crying is a bit of an exaggeration for what you deem weak. Crush those weaklings with your big black boots of war.

You say things are done during war to win it. Ever consider that wars are waged for things to be done?

Lets not forget the past and think things are new, when there are traditions to be upheld.

Whatever is said about the Spying act, whether innocent people are affected, says nothing about the long range goals of such a program. Control by increments. The best slave is a slave that doesn’t know of his captivity.

Abyss - Well, to say that the US economy has been very good is not to say that it has been perfect. It goes up and down - like any other. A depression like that one would be unlikely - at least if the same factors were in play. Economists have learned much from studying that time, and institutions have been put in place that would respond to conditions like that (and have done so, to an extent) in such a way as to prevent a repeat - again, from the same causes. That doesn’t mean that we could not have another depression. But it is by no means certain that we are headed there right now.

I’m not rooting for another depression, but the current downturn in the housing market is not such a bad thing (especially if you’re buying), for instance - so I agree with you in principle, to an extent. We could surely debate the particulars.

The Patriot Act is not perfect - but it has already been modified, and there is nothing preventing a further modification. It hasn’t lived up to its billing as a new American Fascist Manifesto. It just hasn’t.

Well I did say it could be rough spot!

By judicary, I suppose what I really meant to say was hostile legislation and mainly for the middle class. Examples like the overseas tax, bankruptcy bill, tort, and some other that seemed 100% win for big business.

On future citizens- well if you graduate with fancy degree the odds are the company you work for will offer you nothing by the time you retire. No health, no pension, only your 401… If that continues(and maybe it will reverse, who knows) and this person also has to pay for todays social services, it’s hard to see how that will work. You can’t rob peter to pay paul if peter is broke.

I don’t agree that a depression will help the USA, the world is too dependant now. If we go down, the whole thing goes. But that interconnectedness also means the threshold to get a depression increases as we’ve took some good hits over the last three years that at other time would have shot the system down.

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I do not agree our technology has brought about means by which we cannot afford. The wealthy have never in history been as rich. While you and I go without a pension, your CEO may make in one year more than your salary combined for life. Wealth is out of balance, but it is nontheless there I believe.

Keep the faith, your beliefs alone gives us the agreement to trade green paper with. Yes, we do need a balance. Agree.