Is the Universe God?

Is the Universe God?

When you cannot perceive God in His original form and you can perceive God only through some medium of creation like space or energy or awareness, why not perceive God through the medium of matter also? Now if God exists in space, it means that God is exists in this universe. If God is present in the universe, the universe cannot be a separate object of entertainment to God. The Veda says that this universe is created for His entertainment (Ekaki Na …). If you are present in the cinema and become the cinema by pervading all over the cinema, the cinema is not a separate object for you and therefore it cannot give entertainment to you. If you are the spectator of the cinema, you should be separate from the cinema. You are the subject and the cinema is object, which is separate from you. If the subject and object are one and the same, there is no existence of the object at all. It means God did not create this universe. If the creation is absent, there is no entertainment to God. This leads to the inability of God in creating any object that is separate from Himself for His entertainment. Such inability makes God impotent and then God cannot be Omnipotent. Therefore, the separate existence of the universe in which God is not present, must be accepted to avoid all these contradictions.

Now the Veda says that God entered this universe (Tadevanu Pravisat…). But the Veda does not say that God entered the entire universe. God entered the Universe only through some limited form. Therefore, the entrance of God in to the universe is accepted. At the same time since God did not enter the entire universe, the universe exists as a separate object for His entertainment.

You may argue that God entered the entire universe as per a Vedic statement (Eesha vasyam idam…). But if you carefully analyze that statement, it also means that God enters this big universe only through a small form. The translation of that Vedic statement reveals the correct meaning like this: “In this large world, any small world can be pervaded over by the Lord entirely”. This is the true translation. The small world means the human body and the big world means this entire universe. This means that the Lord enters this big world through a small world, which is the human form. The human form alone can be called as a mini-world.

The large world contains nine items, which are the inert five elements (earth, water, energy, air and space) and the four living items called as Antah karanams (mind, intelligence, self-awareness or egoism and the awareness which stores all the information). All these nine items are common between this large world and the small human being. Therefore, the conclusion of the Veda is that God enters this large world through a small human form. This can be explained by common experience also. A spectator, who is seeing the cinema, wishes to take up a role in the cinema. Thus, he enters the cinema through a role and the cinema still entertains him. Therefore, the Gita also says that God enters this world only through a human form.

The the Gita also says that God becomes a Jeeva or human form by entering such a human form (Jeeva Bhutah…). You have entered the role or the dress of a king in the drama, which means that you have become the king in the drama. For all the practical purposes you are the king in the drama. But you retain your identity as the actor in the role and therefore you have not become the king in the true sense.

The audience can treat you as the king but at the same time they are aware that you are not the real king. Similarly the devotees treat the human incarnation as God for all practical purposes. But whenever egoism and jealousy enter their minds, they can analyze and know that God is in the human form and therefore the human form is not really God. Neither has God become the human form nor has the human form become God. Such clarification will reduce their egoism and jealousy and their devotion can become again alive.

Therefore, God cannot enter the (entire) space because if God enters this space, He becomes one with the Universe and His entertainment is lost. Therefore the power of God is material cause of this world. The power is modified into this world as the mud is modified into the pot. Therefore, the formless God, you think, is only the power of God and not the original God. Space is only the modification of the power of God, which is like the mud. God is like the pot-maker who is not modified into the pot. In this example let us assume that the pot-maker created the mud and then made the pot from the mud.

While creating the mud, the Lord is the creator or designer as well as the material. But while creating the pot from the mud, God is only the pot-maker or designer. The pot-maker, while creating the mud, is not modified because only the power of the pot-maker is modified into mud. Therefore, the material cause for the mud is the power of the pot-maker and not the pot-maker directly. This is the concept of Dvaita (duality) of Madhva.

In the concept of Ramanuja, which is called as ‘Visishta Advaita’ (qualified monism), the pot is considered as an associated body of the pot-maker. Instead of the pot, you can take the example of the cloth. The cotton thread is the material cause of the cloth. The weaver is the creator of the cloth. The weaver has created the thread and the power of the weaver is modified into thread as explained above. The weaver is wearing the cloth made by him and this point alone (association of the creator with the creation) is the extra concept in this theory. The weaver treats the cloth wrapped on his body as another external body of his.

The the Gita also says that your external gross body is like a shirt. Therefore, Ramanuja assumes this world as the body of God.
The Advaita scholars mocked at this concept due to their ignorance. They said that if God were associated with the world, the changes in the world would mean the changes in the body of God, which means that God is changed. This is absolute foolishness. When the body is compared to an associated shirt, the changes in the shirt cannot be equated to the changes in the person who is wearing it. If you take the body of a realized soul like Ramana Maharshi, He treated his body as his shirt. He separated himself from the body and limited himself to the soul. He observed the surgery of his body like a person, who is the spectator of his shirt being stitched by somebody.

Thus if you take God as a realized soul, the changes in this universe cannot touch God, in spite of His association with the universe. To reject the mocking of the Advaita Scholars, Madhva avoided the example of the weaver in which the wrapped cloth is treated as another external body. He took the example of a pot so that the pot cannot cover the body of its creator like the cloth. Therefore, the pot cannot be treated as an external body of its creator like the cloth.

Shankara compared the world to an imagination or a daydream of a person. The person is not modified into the imagination. Only his mind or his mental energy (awareness) is modified into the imaginary world. This awareness (Chit or Para shakti or Mula Maya) is just like the cotton thread of a weaver or the mud of the pot maker. God created this awareness in the beginning and here also the power of God created the awareness, which is modified into the world. Thus just like the mud or the thread, the awareness is the material cause of the world. The power of God is the material cause of the awareness. Now the most important point comes. What is the difference between God and His power? Both God and His power are inexplicable and exist in the same state.

Therefore, if the power is modified, we can say that God is also modified. In that case instead of the power of God, God directly becomes the material cause of awareness. The real point is that since God and His power are both inexplicable, the process of modification of the power of God into awareness also becomes inexplicable. In such a case you cannot use even the word ‘modification’ when you say that the power of God created the awareness.

Shankara called awareness itself as God and for Him God is the awareness-incarnation (Awareness in which God has entered). This awareness-incarnation alone is taken as the original God by all the Acharyaas and also the Brahma Sutras. If you go beyond awareness you cannot understand God and cannot preach to anybody about God. For such original God, no words can be used to describe.

When you utter a word some thought comes to your mind, as the meaning of that word. The original God is beyond thought and therefore, any word fails to indicate Him. If such a God is preached, nobody will believe in the existence of such a God. People will say that such a God does not exist. That is why the Buddhists became atheists. Therefore, any preacher should say that the absolute God is the awareness-incarnation. It means that awareness is God.

God is the name of the universe.

Panentheism is the most accurate presentation of God that I’ve read.

God created this entire universe for His entertainment.Hence the universe is only a created item. If the created item is also God then God cannot get entertainment, because for entertaiment the creation should be a sepearte entitity from the Lord.

More over, the absolute God is beyond imagination and comprehension. Any item in the creation can be imagined. Anything which can be imagined is a created item. But Lord cannot be imagined. He enters into this universe through a human body known as Human Incarnation to get full entertainment.

So, God is beyond the creation.

You might want to reconsider your conclusion here.

That entertainment value you speak of appears built upon a premise that matches your posting behavior.

It is thus likely a projection.

God is much more than your attribute projection upon God.

The universe is, by common knowledge, everything.

It is thus endemically infinite in space and eternal in time.

Because of its infinite and eternal properties, there is no such thing as “nothing” – there is no space and time where nothing exists.

The implication with creating something, in the “God created the universe” sense as religious texts may present it, is that that something was created from nothing.

Such is “spiritual” support for the big bang theory.

But, of course, nothing does not exist, as there is no “edge” in space and time to the universe on the other “side” of which is “nothing” – nothing is merely a fantasy of the mind, a fantasy, that by common understanding of the term, doesn’t match the reality of the universe.

And since God is omni-everything, including omni-present, there is no space and time where God does not exist … and thus there is no such real thing as “nothing”.

Nothing, you see, is the absence of God.

Since God is also both infinite and eternal and since there is no place where God does not exist, it is logical to conclude that the universe (by possessing those same properties as it does) and God are one, or, more accurately, that “God” is simply the name of the universe.

It is also logical to conclude, relative to all this, that the big bang theory is false, and that steady state presents the cosmology of the universe more accurately.

You might want to discard such projections, DS, especially those based upon your wish of “should be”.

And you are certain this unimaginable, uncomprehendable God created the universe for his “entertainment”?

Did he tell you that?

:unamused:

Fantasy.

Pure death-fearing fantasy.

Not really.

Because God is the name of the universe and the universe is everything, all that is created is created out of God material. :astonished:

That makes God far from beyond the creation, but it makes we human beings part of God, just like a newly created blood cell in your body is a part of you.

Such mesocosmic reality is not beyond the relative macro and quantum micro cosmicality of the universe, but a dynamic central part of it.

That God is both infinite and eternal is a huge difference between God and us. God was not created – he simply is steady state always … just like the universe. We human beings are created and thus we are not always – we will someday, after living our present existence, die … and death is forever.

One way you can tell the difference between those who will die and those who won’t is that those who will die are composed of material “outside” of their body.

We human beings fashion our blood cells from some components, such as food, that originate outside our body. We are thus mortal creations.

Since there is nothing “outside” God’s body (the universe), God is forever.

God being the generator of space, is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined

The unimaginable God is beyond the four-dimensional model of space and time. You can imagine the dissolution of matter converting into energy filling the space. Subsequently you can imagine the disappearance of energy in the space and the result is final vacuum. But, even if you try for your lifetime, you can never imagine the disappearance of vacuum.

God being the generator of space is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined. If you have to imagine God, the pre-requisite is the imagination of disappearance of space or vacuum. Of course space is a form of very fine energy and in this context the word energy used by Me can be taken as crude form of energy. The only knowledge about God is that He is beyond the knowledge (Yasyaamatam… Veda).

Sabrina;

This world is essentially a homogeneous phase of inert energy, which is space as the finest form of energy. The creation comes from space or finest energy. The space has come from God. This is explained by Veda (Atmana Akasah). The space or the finest energy is called as Mahat, which is infinite. From the space all the world gradually comes out by the will of God. Even the space came out from God by His will only. If you do not recognize God, the energy being inert cannot plan the creation.

The link between God and this space (Mahat) is unimaginable and is stated as Avyaktam. Veda mentions this unimaginability (Avyaktam) as the intermediate item between God and Mahat (Mahatah Paramavyaktam…). You should not fix this Avyaktam to a particular item only. It is simply a word which means unimaginable and can be used in any context to mean any item by anybody.

Suppose a student is unable to understand the higher concept. For him such concept is unimaginable. Therefore the word unimaginable (Avyaktam) has a general sense and can be used in any context. This word is also used to the subtle and invisible state of the world in the energy as a micro impression also after the final dissolution of the world. Similarly the word Brahman can be used to any greatest item depending on the context. It can indicate anybody starting from God to the head of a village.

Veda says that God is beyond this link (Avyaktat Purushah Parah). Space is imaginable but God is unimaginable. Therefore the link between unimaginable God and imaginable Mahat also becomes unimaginable. Only the link between two imaginable items is imaginable and can be understood. The unimaginability is experienced and the unimaginable God identified with the perceivable human incarnation is experienced.

Therefore the concept of unimaginability is proved by the basic validity of authority through experience and perception. Veda says that you can see God (Pratyagatmanamaikshat). If Lord Krishna or Jesus is not seen and if they do not establish the concept of unimaginability through their actions, the existence of unimaginable God can be ruled out.

Dear Sabrina;

The first form of creation is energy. All the other items are the modifications of that energy only. All the modifications may perish but energy remains eternal due to the will of God. It is like the reel of the film containing the whole picture after the dissolution of the world. No fool will destroy the reel at the end of the show. Therefore the reel is eternal. But its eternality is based on the will of God. If God wishes, even the energy disappears.

The reel is not destroyed but can be destroyed. Such eternal finest form of energy is called as Mahat by Veda and is called as Mahat-Brahma by Gita (Mamayonih Mahat-Brahma). The Shastras say that Mahat itself means Brahman (Mahat Brahma iti proktam). When the will of God is withdrawn, this entire world along with the souls and their corresponding attributes become a static impression on the inert energy and is retained in the state of Avyaktam.

In this state both good and bad attributes or feelings are static and inert and therefore become equal. A good deed painted as a picture on a paper is equal to a bad deed painted on a paper. There is no difference between good and bad in this state. This is the equilibrium state of the good (Sattvam) and bad (Rajas and Tamas) qualities before and after the creation. This is the meaning of the equilibrium state of the three qualities as mentioned in the Sankhya philosophy.

If the qualities are associated with awareness, certainly a bad feeling or a bad action cannot be equal to a good feeling or a good action. The equilibrium state certainly means the state of the good and bad qualities as inert impressions in the basic phase of inert energy. Such a state results in the deep sleep. This finest primary energy is called as Mula Maya or Mahat-Brahma or Karya-Brahma or Hiranya-Garbha.

Since it is the first greatest item of creation and since it is infinite, it is called as Mahat-Brahma. Since it is the generated product or effect, it is called as Karya-Brahma. Since God is hidden as root cause in this energy, it is called as Hiranya-Garbha. The word Hiranya indicates the most precious God and the word Garbha indicates the unimaginability of God. It is called as Mula Maya because it is the root cause of this universe up to which only one can analyze. God is called as Mula Mulam which means the root of the root.

The word Maya means the wonderful capability or potentiality of this energy by the will of God. This energy again stands as the medium for the will of God. The wonderful design of the world created by this energy indicates the wonderful will of God. No soul can cross this Mula Maya because the soul can be transformed into this basic inert energy at the maximum.

The universe is not God. God created the universe. But you aren’t wrong.