Is the universe intrinsicly unethical? source of moral is?

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

Who here would agree that reality is intrinsicly unethical?

Everything, our lives are dependent on and controlled by stronger preceeding forces [to name a few, sunlight and gravity].

Smaller unethicalness is preceeded by a greater unethicalness,
Temporary unkindness preceeded by an eternal unkindness.

Deception can feel pretty good, and it’s a fundamental part of human nature, which can overpower and replace the disempowering truths which stand in the way of its values.

the whole “Free-Will” thing makes people “accountable” for their own actions, long-story-short, the people who determined culture and human belief, in general, “needed” to be able to punish people for misbehavior. Such justice-ideals, based on the fantasy-lies of free-will, debt and punishment, are also the center of all things ethical or fair, and without this system of belief, one cannot see the universe as unethical or unkind.

The projection of universal wrongness is based on and comes from a wrongness itself. It’s like I’m loaded with horeshit. - Every time I see something as unreasonable or as non-sense, it’s actually my own stupidity and mental incapacity, unable to understand or handle what I witness, and thus I dub it as unreasonable.

I’m probably metaphysical…
I don’t even want things to be ‘real’, I want them to be ‘better’ instead.

I want to help and protect one of my best friends and I can’t.
The logic shit, I shit that out after my initial failure.
First I failed at this desire to help him with his troubles in his life,
Then I started to say and think these complex moral ethical universal things.

Displacement, that’s what I’m doing.
That’s quite philosophical.
Re-routing Will into language, usually Will that has not gotten to where it wanted to be, and instead made due with an expression instead of an actuality.

Maybe if I fail enough, I’ll sit on a stump in the woods, with a beard, and some fig-leaves on my head. The classical securty of self-suppression into a stereotype. The decandance of stupid images and idols. Label myself and prophecy.

I can’t do it. I tried and I can’t. I can’t help him. I don’t want to fail. I want to do something else instead, to compensate. When the philosophers of idealism came around, they preached in times of great abuse and failure. They preached about what they wanted, not what they had. Their motivation was an unmet desire. They were incomplete old men, with nothing left but their mind. They did not even have their own world.

The conscious defeated by the unconscious.
Makes me scared and then I fabricate hope.
Weak and small so I look for big truths and right ideas.

2

It strikes me as an extreme dualism to presuppose that our own human concerns (i.e. ethics) are separate from ‘reality’. I think this is a separate issue from questions of special personal knowlege of ‘truth’ and control over others using supposedly ethical validation.

3

This despirate ape will use anything at his disposal, truth or lies, so long as it can serve his strongest desires.

What kind of control do you want? What kind of influence?
Do you want it to have a reason, to be thought of or considered?
Or to just be automatic and do whatever, no matter what others want?
I think shit like when asteroids hit earth in the passed, they weren’t ethical, so that’s pretty-much how separate the cosmic and universal is from the ethical. Not really a separation, but instead a matter of general non-existence in over 99% of all space…

4

Huh? :blush:

5

If you people seriously think the Universe is somehow divided on itself (separate forces) then obviously everything is subjective and therefore the Universe is not divided on itself, because it’s subjective.

Basically, if you say everything is subjective, then I can say that it’s objectively objective and that any subjectivity is a load of bull and you can’t prove me wrong.

So basically, what this thread all boils down to is what is real and what is not. Since most of you are actually mentally incapable of comprehending the ‘oneness’ of the universe (hence the name universe and existence), you’re by default wrong about anything moral. Moral doesn’t “come” from anywhere just like the universe doesn’t “come” from anywhere. Obviously “morality” it’s another term for consciousness level. It’s just that morality is an emotional verb attributed to “noble”, while the word consciousness is a plain fact.

Morals are reflected by the actions you make according to your consciousness level.

6

What is this ‘oneness’ you speak of?

7

The universe.

8

The universe. Something you can comprehend, eh?

But you say…

Implying that there are different levels of consciousness, and thus different levels of moral understanding. Will you posit that only the ‘highest level’ of consciousness possesses moral understanding? All the other levels are wrong by default? Have you reached this highest level? If so, through which process? I think I really need to get my hands on this understanding of the universe…

9

No,there are no ‘different levels’ of consciousness. It’s going to change no matter what you do. “Level” is just a general term. There is no separation involved anywhere, anytime, anyhow.

Don’t jump the gun so quick to label me some kind of bigot. I know that’s where you’re going with this. I never said you had to know everything to be moral. I said you don’t know what the word moral means.

As much as I’ve been accused of being a bigot online because I have a German screen name that comes from a song the famous German band Rammstein wrote, I am never ceased to be amazed at how many of my accusers hypocritically fall into the mindset of ‘separatism’. Thinking you are separate means thinking you are separate, so don’t even try to justify your way of thinking. It’s separatism no matter how you want to put it.

10

How one views the universe: is how one is, end of…

11

That could be true, but that doesn’t mean who you are is what you are.

You can’t be separate from anything. The very act of separating things means you are trying to separate from the whole. So obviously, there is no such thing as separation.

12

Once again…

This is strongly implying that you comprehend the ‘oneness’ of the universe, whereas most don’t (and are unable to understand anything moral). This would be putting yourself on a different moral level, or level of consciousness. A seperation between those who understand what moral is, and those who don’t.

I’m not doing anything of the sort.

Sounds a little subjective, coupled with…

I’m German, for the record. It sounds like you are being the separatist.

13

What if the ‘whole’ sucks, and to be part of it means misery? I prefer to think that I skirt around the edges of the whole, and so maintain some sort of independence from it.

14

The more enlightened/ethical amongst us: will have no choice but to become separated from the whole: as the whole cannot fathom such a way of being :imp: it’s life…

15

Assuming the world is facade where games are played on many levels, you either play the game well, play it badly, or opt out of the game. No matter which one these is superior, everybody feels justified.

I dont know you, but I assume you play the game well. Fine. Good. Great. Grand. Wonderful. But you’re not independent of the misery, if by keeping the game going you contribute to the misery.

Like I said, I dont know you, just an impression. I’ve opted out of the game. Not many people can do that. Most dont want to.

16

I, personally, haven’t opted out of life, but I don’t get involved with life’s bull-shit and mundane-ness: thus, I avoid the little people, and the hassles that they bring!

17

I can picture a giant red high heel crushing the little people.

18

…I wouldn’t waste my time with that - I just avoid mediocrity, and mundane-ness :sunglasses:

19

There is no A
Being A is C.
There is no A.

Not valid, but even if…

If you are separate from anything, then you have to separate from the whole.
It is impossible to be separate from the whole.
It is impossible to be separate from anything.

The universe is nothing. It is a label for all things. I don’t think that things can exist outside of this label, but it is not something I am attached to. I simply exist. Even if we define the universe as being everything, it is still just a label for all things. What is ‘the whole’ outside of this?

I don’t know. I just can’t buy it. Maybe my ego is too big, but I think that I have individual mental powers. A mind that is separate. Still within the label. But separate. I think most monists would even disagree (maybe not Spinoza).

20

Nope, I’m not putting myself anywhere. Everything is still one. You just fail to see that all of language is event based generalizations which is completely necessary for communication. Real knowing comes from you, not repetition. So when I say “most of you” I mean most of you on this forum and when I say “you can’t comprehend” I mean you can’t comprehend. It’s like saying the sun isn’t as big as a bigger star. But again, they are relative terms. There are NO set ‘levels’ of anything as everything changes, constantly.

You’re the one calling me a separatist.

Again, generalizations are necessary for proper communication.