I request the following price from you though it’s unlikely you would pay:
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Please avoid dropping BIG BIG videos. Dissecting one takes at least 4x the video length. Give your opinion primarily. Your synopsis below the video doesn’t really touch the subject matter. Also it places Tom Holland alongside Fred and Syed Hossein Nasr. The latter are academics, Tom Holland has a degree but it’s irrelevant to his publications on Islam.
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Please study the Qur’an cover to cover using an accessible translation, not a poor one full of brackets. Try Marmaduke Pickthall or Arberry. I am fairly au fait with the Qur’an right now as l’ve been studying it for about 10 months as thanksgiving for a loved one recovering from a major illness. Therefore l’m studying thoroughly, earnestly. I commend you to do the same at least once. It should take about a year each time. Then you’ll watch such videos with a discerning eye.
TO CONTINUE:
INTRODUCTION OF “TIME-GAP” AS THE ROOT CAUSE:
Around 4mins 5s, with “but it’s based on these later sources … we just don’t know in what measure still this a reliable picture” we find the Vacuous Fallacy / Nirvana Fallacy: like Tom Holland, he bases pretty much everything on the fact that the earliest written accounts of the life of the Prophet were not written down until around 150 years after the death of the Prophet, and so we can pose the Primordial Nearly-Islam theory, which is always some variant of:
{ There must have been a Wild Partytime “Islam” With Hammams Featuring Carvings of Rude-Looking Women But Then The Muslims Later Became Strict Strict Strict Misogynist Christian & Jew Haters But There’s Still A Hint Of Oh-So-Tolerant Paganism If We Can Just Coax It Out They’ll Be Humans Like Us Again. }
This can no longer in my mind be a mere error in judgement, it seems a deliberate Argument from Ommission. The things being ommitted are:
1. There were actually a few accounts composed within a few years after the death of the Prophet
2. ALL biographies come from the Sunnah (Sunnah = body of ahadith, oral traditions attributed to the Prophet)
3. The Prophet commanded that the Sunnah must not be written, this was because there was a danger of lies being put in by faceless individuals, it had to be a living tradition with a golden narrative chain, like the blockchain of Bitcoin, being passed from sheikhs to chosen academic descendants. Here is one example of the injunction:
Abu Sa’id Khudri reported that Allah’s Messenger said:
Do not take down anything from me, and he who took down anything from me except the Qur’an, he should efface that and narrate from me, for there is no harm in it and he who attributed any falsehood to me-and Hammam said: I think he also said:" deliberately" -he should in fact find his abode in the Hell-Fire.
Reference : Sahih Muslim 3004
In-book reference : Book 55, Hadith 92
DISMISSING THE PROPHET TO BEGIN WITH:
5 mins 16s: A further fluorescent “skeptic” marker shows: He refuses to even call the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) “the Muslim Prophet Muhammad”. By contrast, if l were to talk of the Mormon church, l’d address their prophets at least as “Mormon Prophet”. I wouldn’t be so evasive. Admittedly, he does slip at 10mins 40s and say “the Prophet Muhammad”.
Then at 6mins 22s, he says Muhammad began “seeing and hearing things”.
10mins 4s: Fred talks of the Barzakh, the vertice between this world and the hereafter, i.e. the world of the Grave, as a clear outsider, making comical hand gestures when addressing it. I know that’s his prerogative but a recurring theme at the start of the lecture is his “cray-cray” hand gestures which belie his scorn for the faith.
30mins 56s: He describes his chronic cough as “Islamic” echoing an earlier remark that his cough dates from the early Islamic period.
VARIOUS LIES TOLD BY FRED JUST IN PREAMBLE:
7mins 12 - He says the Prophet Muhammad began to understand that there weren’t many gods, there was one God called Allah and Allah created the world, as Allah were new and this were a new idea. The pagan Arabs knew of Allah. The Qur’an treats of this several times e.g.:
Qur’an 31:25 If thou shouldst ask them: Who created the heavens and the earth? they would answer: Allah. Say: Praise be to Allah! But most of them know not.
In fact at 8mins 23s, Fred paradoxically acknowledges that “Shirk”, the greatest sin according to Islam, is in associating partners with God, which was the thrust of the message to the polytheists. Not that Allah was new, but that they were associating deities as partners with / intercessors for him.
10mins 24s: Fred clearly states that as an alternative to eternal paradise, others will be sent to hell for eternity. He omits that some people will be permitted to leave Hell and enter Paradise once purged with fire. He absolutely presents it as a pure dichotomy with no third alternative.
10mins 54s: Fred says Meccans engaged in ancestor worship - I’m not aware of this. The only example l’ve read about is Baal worship, which the Prophet explained began when a King died and his son grieved so badly that he set up worship of that deceased king. But from what l can tell, Baal was not worshipped in Makkah.
11mins 14s: This is very bad. Fred claims that the Prophet declared all deceased pagans to be burning in hell and sarcastically then states “anyway he became really unpopular at home” and they “were made to feel increasingly unwelcome, in Mecca” as if Muslims were being snotty with people and they justly got severely persecuted for it. I’ve never read any such thing. I would say this is a lie. We aren’t allowed to pray for the Prophet’s parents, but we probably all secretly do. This is purely because it is for God to judge them, we cannot say this person was pagan but l’m veeeeery certain he / she will be okay. No, it’s none of our business, only God can judge the final destination for anybody, be they Pagan or for that matter, even Muslim.
EVENTUALLY THE “WARLORD PROPHET” TROPE IS POSED, BECAUSE SHRUGS:
12mins 42s: Fred claims the Prophet “came in as the person who was going to run the town” of Madina when he fled Makkah (on the night he was set to be murdered by the way). Then at 13mins 13s Fred claims the Prophet “consolidated his control over the oasis itself, but also over tribal groups that lived in the countryside around” and then eventually “he was able to take over the city of Mecca where he came from” and “absorb Mecca into this new growing … polity that he was constructing in Western Arabia”. Thus he frames the Prophet as a mere warlord, a land grabber (like every other materialist ruler - but this was NOT at all the basis of the Prophet’s mission). He then continues along his set trajectory: Muslims expanded, imposing themselves onto others.
FINALLY WE REACH THE GAP-BEFORE-BIOGRAPHY TROPE, MAKING HIS SKEPTICISM A DEITY-OF-GAPS:
1. Then we get to the real nitty gritty, and it is pure garbage with zero basis. 15mins 40s he dismisses Muslim historians offhandedly, with a giggle. Then goes into his baseless theory, ignoring Muslim historians and historians that give a favourable opinion of the Islamification of the Near East.
He claims that there was a “Believers Movement” which was a primordial Islam.
It begins in earnest at 19mins 28s he claims that the Qur’an addressed Moomins (including saying “Oh you who Believe”) about 1,000 times, rather than Muslims and suggests that the people being addressed were a primordial community called Moomins i.e. Believers, and that is why Muslim Caliphs were called “Amir al Mu’mineen” (Commander of the Faithful, Captain of the Moomins).
HERE IS MY REBUTTAL:
i) The Qur’an is fine calling Muslims “Moomins”. We don’t make much distinction. Moomins = talking to our hearts. Belief is in the heart. Muslim is the grandest expression of our religion, and this term acknowledges the full religion, including the law.
The Moomin is the internalised faith = the Heart = the commonality of ALL good people
The Muslim = The Moomin + The New Outer Law
The Moomin can be:
Nominal sense: Jews, Christians and Sabians who share our Heart = Monotheism (Sufism is a common vehicle of this)
Nominal sense: The Heart of any given Muslim i.e. what the Muslim is, at heart (and Muslim in turn can refer to the Moomins that followed a religious law before Islam - see below).
Definite sense: The reality that a person believes in God - only God can judge this
The Muslim can be:
Nominal sense: Since the time of the Prophet Muhammad’s ministry: the person who has accepted the religion known explicitly as Islam e.g. Qur’an 39:12
Nominal sense: Before the time of the Prophet Muhammad: those who have accepted the religious law of a preceding Law-giving Prophet e.g. Moses (peace be upon him), e.g. Qur’an 4:11, Qur’an 22:78
Definite sense: The reality that a person has submitted to God - only God can judge this
ii) Throughout most of the Qur’an, the religion was not in its final phase, and thus the Law was not complete. Thus the term “Muslim” was probably not deemed the most suitable by God.
iii) When Muslims had taken over lands in which there were substantial Christian, Jewish and Sabaean populations (Jewish and Sabaean populations were scattered, but apparently they were moribund), they wanted to make it clear that they came as siblings in a family tree of Monotheism (this is a standard Qur’anic view too, it is nothing new), hence the umbrella term “Moomins” - to allay fears and also to reflect that the Caliph was ruler of all people and was happy to recognise all people. The ends vindicate the means: the region massively converted to Islam and as the Fred Donner even states at 33mins 42s: there’s no archaeological evidence of a “Destruction Layer” in Near Eastern towns (except maybe signs of a siege at Caesarea) to mark out Muslim conquest. It was a freeing of minds, an Empire of the Mind as one non-Muslim documentary put it.
iv) Caliphs are called Amir al Mu’mineen even now, e.g. in Afghanistan.
v) Fred even admits in the same breath at 20mins 14s that the Qur’an also addresses us as “Muslims”, albeit fewer times (“60 or 70” times he claims).
vi) To put paid to the “Montheist Revival Movement” / “Believers Movement” we need go no further than the Qur’an itself, even, thus we see that Muslims never had an any ambiguous primordial Believers Mashup Movement:
Qur’an 3:19 The true religion with God is Islam. Those who were given the Book were not at variance except after the knowledge came to them, being insolent one to another. And whoso disbelieves in God’s signs. God is swift at the reckoning.
Qur’an 018.004 And to warn those who say: Allah hath chosen a son,
018.005 (A thing) whereof they have no knowledge, nor (had) their fathers, Dreadful is the word that cometh out of their mouths. They speak naught but a lie.
Qur’an 021.017 [CONDEMNING THOSE WHO SAY GOD PLAYS AROUND, implicitly also those who say God took a mistress, and begat a son]
If We had wished to find a pastime, We could have found it in Our presence - if We ever did.
Qur’an 112.003 He begetteth not nor was begotten.
112.004 And there is none comparable unto Him.
2. At 23mins 34s Fred Donner makes a very misleading statement that according to Islam, “SOME of the Peoples (sic) of the Book were among the Believers, or were considered among the Believers, and would attain salvation on the Last Day” and then he says (24mins) this suggests that Islam began as a “Monotheistic Revival Movement that could INCLUDE Christians and Jews IF they were adequately pious”. This is a great lie.
ALL People of the Book were Moomins, and we have ZERO way to judge a person’s piety, we do NOT judge people’s piety, we look to our OWN selves and criticise our OWN selves, we are the best community that ever lived, we are not judgemental. As the Qur’an states:
003.110 Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers.
Incidentally, the above Qur’an verse states that some People of the Book are believers, but most are not. This is ONLY for God to judge. It is talking about the condition of the Heart. From any human’s point of view, ALL People of the Book are Moomins, i.e. Believers.
3. At 26mins 10s Fred explains that the Jewish tribes of Medina were considered part of the community according to what is purported to be the Charter of Madina. However, this isn’t some kind of primordial Monotheistic Revival Movement that would include Jews if they proved themselves pious enough, this is just natural practice for a Muslim ruler, to include all Moomins!
4. 27mins 34s: He really runs with it, saying that when Christians and Jews were confronted with Muslim preachers, they saw that “you could become a Believer - JOIN THE MOVEMENT”. As if this “Monotheistic Revival Movement” / “Believers Movement” is now established. What an absolute lie.
5. 29mins 57s: He cites a church in Palestine that has what might be the remains of a Mihrab (Muslim mosque pulpit) on one side, and he explains also that the Ummayad Mosque in Damascus was originally split between Muslims and Christians before all finally converted to Islam. Which instantly explains the first observation. Note by the way that there is no definitive mosque architecture, a mosque could be a square of consecrated ground bordered by stones, even. But this is just a minor detail.
6. 32mins 8s: He states “We don’t know how Muslim ritual evolved exactly … it may be that … that the way Muslim prayer evolved was heavily influenced by the way Christians and Jews prayed in the Late Antique world because certainly Christian prayer in the Late Antique period at least also involved prostrations and, and bowing and so on.”
I have visually seen a Jew praying as Muslims do, by bowing, l think l saw kneeling too, and this certainly is part of Jewish prayer during the High Holidays but the Islamic prayer has it’s own peculiarities, and it wouldn’t bother me if the Prophet Muhammad took inspiration from Jews. No need for a “Monotheistic Revival Movement” / “Believers Movement” though.
EPILOGUE: LYIN’ TO THE END!
41mins 30s: Fred states that Islamic doctrine is not set firmly. This is not true, differences in opinion are a blessing to us but in order to consolidate variations as huge numbers of people began entering the faith across a wide area, Islamic practice organised into around 4 “Mazhabs” or “Schools” / “Mannerisms” and these incorporate all matters in the living practice of the faith. It’s important to note that theologians of the different schools would pray according to the other’s school when they met a different theologian - at least that’s how they used to be (so as not to allow a sect to form).