I’d like to see U.S.A’in views on this. The United States did train this folk( just watch Rambo III to view the mass media portrayal of these folk back then) to fight the evil communists in Afgahnistan. Then shit happened and it turned on them. Are neutral people supposed to just sit back and laugh?
I don’t understand the question. 
my bad i ramble too much 
i meant is a citizen of a neutral country morally obliged to feel sympathy for the evil terrorist attacks of 9/11 when it is clear that it is a result of a long-term “cockup” by the USA and its imperialist allies
You’re not morally obliged to feel sympathy for anyone, just as I’m not morally obliged to feel embarrassed for my country’s actions
That being said, I feel pretty embarrassed for my country’s actions
I don’t believe in moral ‘obligation’, but I do believe that it makes sense to feel sympathy for everyone involved in the entire chain of events.
Thats as ignorant as it is absurd. Terrorism isn’t the response of USA imperialism (though that can’t help) most religious violence is against other religious sects, most islamic violence is against other islamics and also jewish communities, but the main source of violence in a lot of islamic countrries is over a different ideas of their divine hiearchy, between sunni’s and shiites.
US imperialism doesn’t cause islamics to blow out entire stories in england or wherever to kill an author of a book (or to hunt down people envolvd in the publication/translation and brutally slaughter them)(, it doesn’t force them to gun down seculars in the street critisizing islam, it doesn’t cause them to reject polio vaccinations or engage in the type of common violence that they’ve engaged in against each other long beffore imperialism.
No its the religion and social climate (which the religion helped produce) that creates these problems, not USA imperialism. Seriously islamics and islam are both FUCKED, extremism is the norm, and we definatly don’t see non-extreme muslims calling out islamic ridiculous violence, almost ever, and definatly not in any kind of large group.
Seriously look into that, we didn’t create islam like frankenstein, they created themselves, the very religion they follow is twisted to the core much more then christianity or judiasm (which are both twisted as fuck to begin with).
A lot of religions have the potential to transform people like this indoctrtination is a huge part, but to actually think they do terrorism out of hatredd towards us, and not hatred towards us because of religious ideals that they had for a long long long time, thats madness.
Likewise it’s madness to think that extremist responses to extremism don’t exacerbate extremism. By the way that statement is not a political one concerning use of military force versus complete pacifism.
Like 50% of people who follow Islam in THIS country say they support violence against people who speak out against islam, thats in largely secular democratic communities. They are violent not because of us, but because human nature is a twisted thing easily turned towards vicious and even arbitrary goals. Talk to some of the people escaping islamic insanity, see what they tell you. We didn’t force them to accept that the penalty for conversion is death.
no the quran states respect for muslims to jews and christians because they are “booked” people 
Al Qaeda, or the united front against zionists and crusaders, was created by the U.S.A and trained and funded to fight the “communists”. then things got fucked up. therefore the US is doctor frankenstein and the frankenstein child is Al Qaeda, and a consuequence of its own imperialism
haha hitchens off-handedly states he knows more then the 9/11 comission assembled to find that out, ahaha. ah thats awesome. (because as a prominent journalist interviewing wanted criminals over the globe, he probably does)
Was that a response to my post? I can’t tell.
It can provoke people into acts surely, but just by itself it can get to that level. A lot of people think the death toll in iraq has to to with the invasion, when in truth its mainly a civil war envolving islamics vs islamics, the culture was on a down-ward spiral before the ivnasion and was heading in that direction one way or another.
A lot of the time extreme reactions by other countries is warrented if it can hope to succeed, i don’t think this could have, but left to their own devic ecs there would be more bloodshed.
For the most part, yes, but there are still these gems:
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[5.64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.
[5.73] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.
Sept/11 was not premised on retaliation for past imperialist domination. American instrusion in the Arab world pales in conparison to that in other parts of the globe. Islamic extremism is based on humiliation on seeing one’s own culture flounder while a civilization of sin-loving heathens lavish in the opulence bred of everything they touch further prosperity. Osama bin Laden is not concerned with a fairer distribution of the world’s wealth. He’s fabulously wealthy and has no involvement in charitable pursuits.
wow really, i though osama bin laden was like che guevara or something but i guess i was wrong 
islamic extremism is a backlash against the cultural economic and military imperialism of the West, the USA props up some regimes such as Saudi Arabia, which makes good old Iran look like Sweden in comparison, the U.S.A is directly responsible for this as well as the Taliban regimes.
Islamic extremism is not that and anyone who thinks so has a sad idea of the situation envolved, political and religious. No one is forcing islamics to de-cry polio and re-create it in certain parts of the globe, no one is forcing them to kill people who speak out against their religion, theres thousands of examples of islamic violence that can be drawn more accurately to religious belief and not imperialism.
Besidees, its a society of polygamy with an emphasis on religiously oriented sacrafice, males with no females at a certain age (no potential mates) are the most likely to commit violence or one of the msot likely groups to commit violence, the fact that theres an super high amount of single low status males without access to females on top of a violently savage religion, spells out madness from the get go.
Iraq tearing itself to the ground in a brutal civil war is n ot the result of ‘imperialism’ its the result of a population having such ingrained and powerful religious ideas that they’re willing to blow up massive numbers of each other, ancient artifacts/temples/statues and etc, all over the idea of a divine hiearchy dispute between sunni’s and shiites.
If you want to explain islamic nuttery as imperialism responses, you have to explain why most of the violence is directed against each other for religious reasons, with religious justification.
because imperialists fund internal faction warring
Yes they do, but so do sidees of the religious opposition envolved and without the funding we’ve seen historically as much violence and nuttery. You don’t neeed a whole lot of funding to throw around roadside bombs.
You’re just being specifically ignorant and I can’t stand that when it comes to religion. Spokes-people of islam and of iran, publically ordered and offered to pay for the death of citizens in forign countries, many that have no tie to imperialism towards them. They sent death-squads to countries that hand no such hand in this, for critisizing their religion. Sorry, but when they’re historically violent their religion is crazy, they justify their acts by religion and not social policy.
Whether people were funding groups in iraq or not, the civil war would STILL be at large, they would STILL be killing each other over various sunni/shiite interpretations of a divine hiearchy.
Umm, where is the OK to do violence on those that do not attack them? Its pretty clear with those quotes if you leave them alone they will leave you alone or they are supposed to. No where does it condone a Jihad of mass proportions.