It's happened. It's finally happened.

George Orwell, in his book Nineteen Eighty Four, talking of a few concepts I did not understand. First, was “duckspeak,” noted as being a compliment to your friends and an insult to your enemies - relentless quacking of propaganda.

Another was reality-control - deliberate, voluntary stupidity.

Today, I saw both in action.

I am trying, on another forum, to have a debate about mass surveillance in the UK, as well as the threat of totalitarianism. Do you know what I got?

Post after post of, “if you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to fear,” and spurious insults at me, saying I was “delusional,” that I was a “self-absorbed dreamer,” that I “must have something to hide” to question the government line on terrorism, or the threat of serious crime (I argued that what is in the media is not strictly true).

I saw it - duckspeak. The same propaganda lines which allow people to sink into placid ignorance and allow anything to be justified in the name of “security.”
They would not even abide my comments that freedoms and privacy are rights, not privilages, and that law-abiding people deserve these freedoms more than anyone. Nope - I was either mad or a criminal. :unamused:

Another said I obviously had too much time on my hands to think about all this - implying that “normal” people don’t think about it - and certainly never question it. There - voluntary stupidity.

I had a moment of pure existential angst. I can’t win - I can’t beat propaganda rot of the mind, or voluntary, blissful stupidity, or paranoid ignorance. And this is all without even mentioning the actual surveillance state that is the UK.

Orwellian totalitarianism might just have arrived, and I am totally depressed. Someone please confirm that I am not Winston Smith - that I have some kind of “Brotherhood?” :cry:

I’m sure more people oppose it than you think, a basic human heuristic/bias is thinking that you’re a lot more unique than you really are. :slight_smile:

The forum may have just been an unlucky bunch of idiots. I’d be more worried about multiculturalism degrading common law, though.

People would rather walk in the dark with their eyes closed. They would rather have a leash than lead. Its how we stay together as a society. The vast majority of humans must be followers. Sad but true. You are right to be concerned. It is shameful and painful to see. The US is not far behind the UK in this. Buck up ; move to a free country while you are still allowed to.

welcome to the world… it’s double plus good…

but don’t worry, the revolution will be soon…

-Imp

Benjamin Franklin:

“Those that would sacrifice Freedom for Security deserve neither.”

Find a better forum.

There are a lot of stupid people with access to the internet. Try not to get pissed off with them.

See, it’s all of that that is making me think whether or not to run for the hills. Should we be getting the hell out of here?

Luckily people seem to be wising up a lot so hopefully we will get together and fix things.

Just remember that no matter where you go, 9 out of 10 are already dead. They just refuse to lay down and quit breathing your air…

Mr. Empty,
There is always tons of nonsense on the internet. Many people use the internet to escape and express themselves in manners which they normally do not get to do in their “real” life.

The baiting that you experienced sounds very juvenile but be careful. You may have been “debating” with a bunch of kids but you may also have been debating with actual agent provocateurs. It is a frightful thought but it has happened elsewhere in the world. Take a look at this:
CHRC: “Nothing Untoward, Nothing Wrong” with Hacking Citizen’s Internet

Just be careful, few people are stupid, just they under-use or misuse their intelligence.

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t mean inherently stupid, just habitually so.

Empty this is part of what we get to deal with over here
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080620/ap_on_go_co/terrorist_surveillance

Sheesh - but, without getting into a US vs UK debate, I have to say that the UK is worse because it’s smaller, and thus disproportionately overpopulated (in my view), and society is different.

People are getting obsessed with the idea of overpopulation. Britain isn’t anything close to being overpopulated. It just consumes far too much per person.

Siatd,

Now you’ve done it. You can’t claim consuming to much without starting a contest, and Americans win that one hands down. We are the kings and queens of consumerism. Brits are ultra conservative and frugal compared to Joe Sixpak and his brood. :stuck_out_tongue:

ive been stockpiling wet-stones.

I come from Iran. The government there literally controls every aspect of your life, from what you drink, what you eat, how you dress, how you interact, etc. Maybe that’s why I don’t understand the fuss over all the cameras. Given the rate of crime in London, I don’t know, maybe someone should explain how one entity (the government?) is monitoring all the tapes and how I’m being controlled so I can run for the metaphorical hills. If muslims were to become the majority in London or England, as seems probable in the long run, then I would be very very worried. Hopefully that can be avoided, and I’ll be free to drink my beer in a backalley without worrying about cameras.

:laughing: have you not noticed one odd thing. What ever England does, for some odd reason the US has to try and copy, and visa versa. Its like there is this wierd umbilical cord between us.

This is sarcasm right? The UK’s pupulation density is higher than Pakistan’s, about equal to Vietnam and the Philippines, and not that far behind India and Japan.

There are no large wild land mammals left in Britain, all are extinct; re. ancient woodlands, “a mere 14 are larger than 3 square kilometres”.

I understand Iran has a highly pervasive, cultural totalitarianism rooted in a radical and literal interpretation of Islam - and thus, you cannot compare the totalitarianism of Iran with that in the UK. In both cases, the totalitarianism is social and cultural, yet in the UK, it is less visible.
The government are not controlling us - more, society is becoming an exclusive, suspicious club lynching non-conformists.