James Frey and modern 'Truth'

Old school definition of truth: Something that is

Mathematical definition of truth: abs(Mental Model - World) < error_tolerance, or, deductively A==A
(BTW, this definition is time invariant, meaning that the modern meaning of truth should not be different from the definition of truth 10 billion years ago, or from now).

Modern definition of truth: An obstacle to what I want to pretend is real.

My point is that it’s sort of irrelevant nowadays…

In my world people wouldn’t get money from fraud… but we don’t live in my world. Or yours.

Hello F(r)iends,

Calling it “modern truth” is revisionist bullshit. Lies are lies.

We know a few facts:

  1. Clinton lied.
  2. Frey lied.

If we can deduce something about government lies, it’s that it was learned from the democRATSâ„¢.

-Thirst
[size=75]Note: democRATS is a registered trademark of Impenitent, Inc. {wink}[/size]

You omitted Bush just to piss me off.

It’s not revisionist bullshit… it’s unadulterated youthful thinking (no pun intended). If everyone is lying… then what is truth?

Bush rigged the election… and we actually debate over it. BUSH RIGGED THE ELECTION. Period.

Just like Frey lied.

But yet we devote a week to critically examining every aspect… but we continue to sweep the governmental bullshit under the rug.

(one more time) BUSH RIGGED THE ELECTION.

What everyone is lying about. What everyone is hoping they can evade.

Just for the record, I believe that Bush is also a liar, a fraud, a sociopath, of very low intelligence and easily the worst president in history.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with Frey, nor does it excuse Frey in the least.

You could say that Frey is Bush Lite.

True.

The problem is though, that people like Frey are getting caught… and the truth is revealed for this unimportant event, but not for the people that matter.

It’s like a war is going on and the enemy is sending out figurehead ‘spies’ for us to capture on purpose, to make it feel like we’re winning and gaining intel.

Enevitably the enemy advances.

Ok, man, look at it this way:

We can’t get Bush. Yet. But we got Bush Lite. And we got to see him pretty much ripped up on national TV. Isn’t that a good thing? At least for now? Man, I sure felt good watching Frey do a slow fry up there.

Hello F(r)iends,

Old_Gobbo wrote:

Actually Gobster, there are important differences:

  1. Clinton lied; was caught with undeniable evidence; he subsequently admitted to his lies.
  2. Frey lied; was caught with undeniable evidence; subsequently admitting his deception.
  3. Bush lied; not caught with undeniable evidence; has not admitted to anything incriminating. Thus, facts not in evidence. {see below}

Bush has not been caught with undeniable evidence and has not admitted to lying/deceit. You may argue undeniable evidence in the Bush issue, but simply there are not enough facts in evidence to support this contention. If there was, democRATSâ„¢ would have already moved for impeachment. Bush may have rigged the election (heck, I am not so sure he didn’t–though I operate as if he hadn’t) but there is a lack of evidence. Realistically, this (the above) is a very close approximation of the situation. By the by, I can be stubborn too: Bush DID NOT rig the election! However, it does not add or detract anything… Just because you or I jump up and down about Bush doesn’t make any of our allegations any more credible and does not add any support to that which we posit…

-Thirst

Dave,

No… you’re missing the point. It’d partly my fault… I’ve been sorta jumping around.

Ok… think this way. Frey may have been acting all in the hotseat… as I’m sure he was a little bit, but the guy is contracted… all this attention is just making him more money in the end. Now he’s truly famous. Once you get in… just being on tv is a good thing. He’s laughing inside.

Once you get above the media, truth doesn’t matter anymore. Or even if you can lie to get above it like Frey did. This is how the media and truth now exist. Bush RIGGED THE ELECTION and no one cares, because people are lazy. It’s not enough to simply get swept along anymore, not if you want to remain standing firm, at least close to the surface of truth.

This case is so indicative of the media strategy, parading some meaningless example of the daily workings of the world in our faces saying ‘Look… see, the world is fine… this guy lied and we caught him!’

Thirst,

Don’t give me the pro Bush shit ok… it’s so juvenile.

Is anyone else getting this?

Hello F(r)iends,

Gobbo, I revised my last post; but that aside:

  1. Frey may very likely be done as an author.
  2. Abramoff is more than likely done as a politician.

Being caught changes everything… There ARE consequences.

-Thirst

EDIT: Don’t give me the pro liberal revisionist bullshit. It’s so infantile.

Admitting guilt makes people forget faster.

Bush is just too much of a redneck fuck off to have chosen a lie that he couldn’t withdrawl from safely. Clinton fucked up sure but he used the scandal to detract attention from some of the evil shit he was doing overseas. He was already in office. You can’t exactly just say ‘ok… I was wrong’ when you rig a PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

Frey is under contract, so unless his publisher can find a way out of it he will remain an author. That said, even if they could, they would be stupid to do so. Think about it, in the arcane nature of the Oprah, she decided to have Frey back on the show in a couple years with his new book - total fiction. It’s a story of redemption or some shit… everyone wins, Oprah doesn’t look like she was so harsh.

The media isn’t as sluggish as some of the older misinformed companies, they have the research and they know how the human mind functions, and how to take advantage. People have the money… and in the end it’s the money that matters. People just want a face, they want someone famous… it doesn’t matter what they’re saying.

Don’t believe me?

MARTHA STEWART

OG,

How familiar are you with the amount and quality of his lies?

The guy said that he was put in jail for trying to kill a cop when in reality it was just driving without a license and he never went to prison! His new book is all about conversations with his cellmate! He never even had one! In another part of the book he reports flying to France and seeking solace at a church where some priest tries to grab his crotch. He reports that he beat the shit out of the guy and fled the scene. There’s no proof that this happened either.

At best, what I think he may have done was report what he felt like. For instance, about two hours ago I ate a bag of popcorn and drank a large bottle of diet Pepsi. Now I “feel like” I have something living in my stomach that trying to get out. Adler mentioned that some people (really everyone to a degree) lives in a world of their own making with some having more “as if” thoughts than others, but damn in his case.

It’s my guess that this guy is mentally deranged. I cannot imagine how he thought that he could get away with claiming he was in prison when it’s a matter of public record. Ok, if the first book was a lie then I can accept that he was just hoping to sell a book, got super lucky, and then got caught, but then to write a sequel about your cellmate is just weird.

I was shocked that he even went on Oprah!

Why do it!

While on the show he show he had that “What?” expression plastered on his face that I associate a certain type of nameless crazy person I’ve seen before.

If he’s not crazy then we should find him taking his money and moving to Brazil, because I bet Oprah is going to fuck him up.

My view of bush are well known and don’t need
to be rehashed. As far as frey goes, it is systemic of
our system that allows liars to be rewarded. What is the final
value of our system? Truth? Ah, no. Honesty? Again, a big no.
No, the value our vaunted system is money. If you have money,
you automatically have gained value. FDR a great president.
However his family gained their great wealth, selling opium in
china from about 1860 to 1900. Much of the great wealth in this
country was derived from criminal activity. One of those is
the Kennedy clan. Kennedy Sr. was one of the great crooks
of this country and got great wealth doing so,
stock manipulation among other things. So we reward lying,
cheating, and crime for the simple reason that we value money
and the pursuit of money higher then honesty, truth, and morals.

Kropotkin

moderen truth? Or it’s okey to lie as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. With that mentallity you can assume incest is okey as long as you don’t get pregnant. As I have herd liberalists claim

Is incest moral? #-o

Phil27of79:moderen truth? Or it’s okey to lie as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. With that mentallity you can assume incest is okey as long as you don’t get pregnant. As I have herd liberalists claim."

K: Who exactly said that? That is simply more liberal bashing.
Don’t you people have something better to do.

Kropotkin

Historically almost all unions have been incestuous to a degree. Usually, but not limited to, Uncle-Niece, or Cousin-Cousin. It isn’t nearly as bad as people think.

Plus, if we take a strict view of the Bible, which a great deal of right-wingers do, then all relationships are by definition incestuous, since we are all descended (rather directly) from Adam and Eve . . .

I thought I was on the same page as you wisened old monkey man, until someone pointed out that governmental defrauding of an entire nation has nothing to do with some moronic crackhead defrauding housewives watching Oprah.

Perhaps I was wrong.

To my understanding, deceit is no longer a moral issue, especially if there is money involved. The media should be the purveyor of truth, instead are purveyors of how to buy and sell something that could be truth if no one had a conscience.

Definition: “Modern truth” is a commodity or perishable. Not a moral or ethical value.

moderen truth? Or it’s okey to lie as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. With that mentallity you can assume incest is okey as long as you don’t get pregnant.

Or maybe there is something wrong with only being able to find love inside your family. When it happened in the bible, it was because of limited choices. Now your useing that as leverage in accepting incest in people that are prone to sleeping around?