James Kim found dead

Sadly, Kim was found dead by searchers today. For those following the news, he & his family took an unfamilar route and were trapped when their car got stuck in deep snows. The rest of the family was found after being stranded there in the cold for more than a week; the husband (foolishly) set out on foot to try to find help.

I basically knew he was dead yesterday- searchers found his pants. This told me it would be very unlikely that he’d be found alive. People in the end stages of hypothermia often begin to feel hot, and often strip off their clothes in an effort to cool off. Of course, since they’re basically freezing to death already this just hastens the process.

As I spent years in search and rescue and have
been a backpacker for years, I can state he did just about
everything wrong. They were woefully unprepared for the
conditions, mountains and snow. No matter what happens,
you stay put. The more you move around, the harder it becomes
to find a person. You start a fire and if need be, set the forest on fire.
You can dry out wood, even wet wood, to burn and (they didn’t have
enough matches) you can burn your vehicle up, throwing a match
into the gas tank and blowing up your car is an option if you are
desperate enough. Anything neccessary to be found is fair game.

Kropotkin

Judged solely on his intentions, he died a hero.

Truly he gave his life trying to save his family, a very heroic thing to do. The sad thing is that as PK said, it was unwise and unneccessary. The best course of action would have been to stay with his family. But you can understand his thought process- they’d been stranded nearly a week already when he set out. He probably thought no one would ever find them.

I don’t normally travel far from home by car in the winter, but I do keep a sleeping bag, cold weather clothes and usually lifeboat rations in my trunk. Along with highway flares & a space emergency blanket. And I try to make sure my cell is fully charged.

Obviously I didn’t know him, but it strikes me as a tragedy of sorts. Hopefully his needless death will at least serve as warning to others.

We have been following the story and as you said as soon as the pants were found we knew too. Our employers and there family are soon taking off for Colorado. They know nothing of mountains and driving under such conditions. We are from the west and have spent alot of time under the harsh winter conditions of mountain driving. We can only hope they follow our advice and prepare the vehicles with the emergency supplies we told them to take. I keep thinking we are forgetting something. I hope not. See if you guys think of anything we missed.

Tire chains
Shovel
road flares and flare gun
waterproof matches
blankets/ sleepingbags
3 day supply of food and some water
good maps of the area.

They are caravaning so we told them each vehicle should have the above do not put all emergancy supplies in one car each one should have its own.

Also,
extra socks, shoes and gloves kept within easy reach And stay on the frigging well traveled highways. Don’t wander off.

A cell phone and weather radio are good additions, too. A good flashlight or two (preferably with a spare set of batteries) is a must.

Yea, they all have cell phones and weather radios, plus each vehicle has a C.B. Flash lights and batteries! yep that is what we were forgetting. Thanks! Wheew that niggling thought is relieved, I hate when something gets stuck and refuses to come out.

Having lived in California for years, most of the time cell
phones don’t work in mountains. Even in higher hills, cell phones
may or may not work. A good rule of thumb is
DON’T DEPEND ON TECHNOLOGY TO SAVE YOUR ASS.
In a survival situation, low tech is far better then high tech due
to cold, (drains batteries) the single best thing to have on any
survival situation is …MATCHES. I carry waterproof matches
and I don’t even smoke, second is water,
third is shelter.

Kropotkin

Sooooooo Sad!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Crap, I was going to post this. Sad. Another tecchie(?) bites the dust. The memorial can be found here:

cnettv.com/9710-1_53-25121.html

Cells may not work well in the mountains, but keep in mind, Pete, that ultimately that’s how they were found (via “pings” from the cell).

Plenty people would have went out of the car long before they get stuck in there for a week, I am suppressed that a successful businessman had the risk averseness as suggested by his week long waiting. I believe that he wanted to get out after the storm diminished, but his wife convinced him otherwise. Perhaps he would have walked longer than two miles, had he got out earlier while his energy level was still near normal.

But this is a generalisation that must be varified by facts of the terrain, the whether and so on. It should not be reasonable if one is to lable the man as foolish, without professionally examining the case. It would take detective work, computer simulation, nothing less in order to make a plausible conclusion if the man was foolish. Even then, one must bear in mind that the lack of survival knowledge and the psychological distortion that might have pertained to the man, would have reduced his quality of reason. In any case, I doubt that one of the most successful businessman in America, can be considered as foolish in the first place.

My estimation of this case, a rough guess, is that Kim initially wanted to get out but his wife did not let him. After a week, his wife agreed, but Kim was not sure if he could manage then. His wife insisted. Kim went. I would like to interview his wife. If my guess was roughly the case, then I would say that his wife commited unintentional manslaughter. Women committing manslaughter, which is always a very probable possibility in all cases on all levels for all cultures due all respects. Thus the inspiration behind my guess. The rationale for my guess, is that it is very probable that there was debates or arguments that occurred between he and his wife while they were trapped. If you follow this line of thought, then assign positions to the debaters or arguers, you are likely to end up in symphasis with my guess.

Well who’s “ping” was it though? Was it his “ping”…cause if it was his “ping” then he saved them by going out perhaps to a location where the “ping” could be heard…

And this feels weird debating this…:frowning:

You’re a hoot, PG. :laughing: That’s a locator signal the network uses to try to locate a phone. Even where you don’t get reception, attempted calls will often still “ping” the network and can be roughly localized.

I’d agree that “foolish” may not be the word to describe him. The classic advice is to never leave your vehicle. However, I agree that after a week of sitting in your car you may well come to believe that no one realizes you’re missing and no one is going to come. And the desperation of having your 4 month old with you all that time may drive you to drastic action. The sad reality is that 1) he was lost- he didn’t know the area or have any way to navigate, 2) he wasn’t well dressed or equipped for a hike, 3) probably was in poor physical shape after more than a week without food and 4) had a very low probability of survival, save being rescued by blind luck

People seem to love irony; in this case Kim was fairly near to some type of hunting or fishing camp that had a several-months-worth stock of food. People say “if only he could have gotten a bit further…” but in reality it may as well have been on the moon since he didn’t know it was there.

When my dad was a small boy growing up in the rural midwest, his father actually strung a taut rope from the house to the out-buildings (barn, etc). It occasionally happened that in bad blizzards someone would head out to check the livestock in the barn and actually get lost on the way to the house. It wasn’t unheard of for a neighbor to die of exposure and hypothermia literally lost in his own “yard.”

Phaedrus,

“The sad reality is that 1) he was lost- he didn’t know the area or have any way to navigate, 2) he wasn’t well dressed or equipped for a hike, 3) probably was in poor physical shape after more than a week without food and 4) had a very low probability of survival, save being rescued by blind luck.”

These are the plausible reasons that would contribute towards the arguement against his decision of getting out. My query was that what compelled him towards his decision, and, what made him stay inside for as long as a week so as having to face this difficult decision.

My guess is that his course of action were shaped by some arguements with his wife. First, because I assume that a successful businessman is usually risk loving. Second, I assume Kim was a wife loving sort of nice guy. Third, I assume that their car was not visible from the road or even very much buried beneath the snow.

Last but not least, my parents have had such arguements in similar but less severe situations, my mother has always been the one who made the situation worse. I am no Schopenhaurian women averser, but I have reason to get the impression that women in general tend to make detrimental decisions in stressful situations.

Please notify us if an interview on his wife come out, Phaedrus, I would like to enhance my ego.

You may be right, Uniqor. Probably we’ll hear her story eventually. I’m not disputing anything you say, more just musing on the facts in evidence. I’m a survival buff of sorts, so events like this, even though sad, are opportunities for others to learn. The main rule of thumb is no matter how long you must wait, you’re almost always better off staying with your vehicle. Naturally, if your vehicle is a plane crashed high in the Peruvian Andes you may have to re-evaluate this, but in nearly all cases you will be found more quickly if you stay with the vehicle. And of course, it provides you shelter. You’ll be much warmer in a car, even with no heat. The enclosed space retains heat, plus you’re out of the wind and you’re dry. That will keep you alive longer. Lastly, there’s the psychological advantage of being “inside.” That gives you an edge.

Still, it is amazing that he stayed put as long as he did. I will admit even knowing what I know, it would be hard to sit in that car for a week.

Phaedrus,

“Still, it is amazing that he stayed put as long as he did. I will admit even knowing what I know, it would be hard to sit in that car for a week.”

This is my whole point, man, I am not disputing anything you said about about survival classics, much of which I agree anyway.

It is also problematic if she fails to tell the truth. Her kids are too young to correct her, hence perhaps, they should try to seperately interview them.

I am not trying to prove a point against the judgement of women in general, I just enjoy wild guessing work.