Jesus - Empathic link 'twixt God and Man.

[Tab]

Hi Again - I’m multiple topicking today…

Anyway - As far as I’m able to understand from Christian thought, God compressed a small amount of himself, or perhaps all, into physical human form, the better to understand us.

After all, I don’t talk to the bacterial colonies in my bowel movements. They can’t communicate on my level, lack my sensual capabilities, or any commonalities of universal perspective. We have shit in common. We’d bore eachother at parties.

So. Jesus popped into existance. Emapthic link. God as man.

But here’s the rub. God doesn’t do things by halves. Not one to dip his toe in the sea and run away back to his wind-break shivering as far as I understand. Oh no - He’s the hirsute poseur who runs in up to his knees and belly-flops spectacularly into the surf in plain view of the bikini’d beach-belles, probably while wearing a purple lurex thong.

“If you’re gonna do something - Do it right.” Is God’s motto.

My conjecture…? Well - Jesus was a bit of a disaster as a human wasn’t he. A bit of a canoodle with Magdelene is implied, a bit of a tantrum in the temple market place.

If God was man - then he went the whole hog.

He loved - physically, romantically.
He had sex. He fathered a child.
He fought. He killed. He was jealous. He was angry. He hated as well as befriended. He envied, he sinned.

To do anything less, to experience anything less, would to be less than fully ‘human’.

And to be less than human would have negated the whole point of trying to forge an empathic link in the first place. To fail.

And God doesn’t fail. That’s in the job description.

[sangrain]

Tabula Rasa,

Is this an argument for something?

A mere presentation?

Or a realization?

… just curious.

[Dan1 (Dan~)]

Please make note of the fact that “to be human”, “being human”, etc., are self righteous fantasies meant entirely to please ego.

[thirst4metal]

@Tabula Rasa

Anyway - As far as I’m able to understand from Christian thought, God compressed a small amount of himself, or perhaps all, into physical human form, the better to understand us.

Theologically speaking, it’s so that we could understand god better and not the other way around.

@Tabula Rasa

My conjecture…? Well - Jesus was a bit of a disaster as a human wasn’t he. A bit of a canoodle with Magdelene is implied, a bit of a tantrum in the temple market place.

A disaster by whose standards?

@Tabula Rasa

If God was man - then he went the whole hog.

He loved - physically, romantically.
He had sex. He fathered a child.
He fought. He killed. He was jealous. He was angry. He hated as well as befriended. He envied, he sinned.

To do anything less, to experience anything less, would to be less than fully ‘human’.

And to be less than human would have negated the whole point of trying to forge an empathic link in the first place. To fail.

And God doesn’t fail. That’s in the job description.

The “empathic” link is to help us forge a link with his divinity (our divinity) and not our humanity (his humanity).

Theologically, god wants people to be like him: godly.
Made in his image and all that…

-Thirst

[Tab]

So God incarnated as man as some kind of advertising scheme…?

The depths some deities will sink to, tch.

Now Zeus - There was a God who wasn’t afraid to get down and dirty with the rest of us - Slip on the swan costume and knock up some bint in a toga. Whoo-whoo go-Zeus.

Hey Sangrain, thanks for the congrats on Tabbette btw - I did see them on another thread long ago… And the point of this thread…?

I think I’ve misplaced it. A realization is closest perhaps.

[thirst4metal]

@Tabula Rasa

So God incarnated as man as some kind of advertising scheme…?

The depths some deities will sink to, tch.

Over 2 billion people served…
That’s almost McDonald’s like success.

-Thirst

[vm1]

@Tabula Rasa

If God was man - then he went the whole hog.

He loved - physically, romantically.
He had sex. He fathered a child.
He fought. He killed. He was jealous. He was angry. He hated as well as befriended. He envied, he sinned.

To do anything less, to experience anything less, would to be less than fully ‘human’…

Please don’t throw out statements such as these as truths which have absolutly no evidence to support that they are truth. Don’t give me a source of Dan Brown either, can then i’ll think you even more ridiculous. And if you throw out Leonardo, well, at MOST you could say he maybe thought Jesus had a relationship with Mary…which again proves nothing of the actual validity of it. To say he was jealous, angry, and befriended, are not attributes which are uncommon to God. Those are not just human characteristics. To say he envied and sinned, well, again…way to throw out statements with no proof. Am i supposed to take you word for it that God sinned? And there are many humans who do less then what you have said are the attributes of being human…killing, anger, sex etc. Christ is shown as God taking on the form of man…that doesn’t mean he gave up being God.WEll, at least that what the bible teaches.

[Tab]

Got a live one here folks.

So vm1, would you accept that God, as man, made a lousy, half-assed job of it…?

[Jakob]

“God is an asshole!” - Ruth Fisher

I don’t see any flaws in your argument, Tabula. Except, maybe God did such a sloppy job because he figured that would make a convincing human. Or maybe he thought if he became fully human in the way you describe, he wouldn’t stand out, and noone would belive he was God. I assume this recognition is what he went for.

In reality I think God is autistic, and tried to be one of us, but failed, and got bullied and killed by the cool people.

[vm1]

No, why the would I accept that? Your asking me to accept something which you yourself have given no evidence to, or at least valid evidence. So please, give me strong, valid, evidence to support you claims that Christ had sex, had a child, murdered, and sinned. It’s not my job here to back myself up, you started the topic, im just asking you not to sound like you’ve watched a few to many movies.

[sangrain]

Tabula,

Oh yes, the little Tabbette. Congratulations indeed. I almost became an illiterate catastrophe when mine eyes happened upon her cute little mug. Had I not remembered the very possibility of faust’s ever keen eye peering/peeking over my very shoulder … I don’t know Tabula, I just don’t know. I guess you owe faust great deal of gratitude because he possibly saved you from a disastrous plethora of ‘oooogybooogybooo, who’s the cute wittle bwaby’ rantings and ravings (regarding the baby, not you). Seriously, Tabula, you do good work. All hope’s not lost for the gene pool … thanks for the save (and thank your matrimonial partner for participating in this, the bravest of experiments).

As far as my engagement on this particular thread goes; I am basically examining biblical writ vs. religious interpretation and its resultant indoctrinations as evidenced by dogmatic assimilations in vocabulary and linguistic employment (the western cannon is riddled with the stuff – I am mostly focusing on America, working my way through Platonic ideals, categorical imperatives, the Puritans, and who knows what). It’s not as involved as it seems … ok, maybe a little … another passing fascination, really.

[Tab]

Hey Sangrain, I shall whisper in the baby’s ear that she has a fan. And your ‘passing fascinations’ would seem, in depth, to surpass the very obsessions of those with intellects less bright.

So please, give me strong, valid, evidence to support you claims that Christ had sex, had a child, murdered, and sinned.

How you flounder, how you flop dear vm1, give me hard evidence that Christ dandled babies on his lap, cured the lame and almost put the grape-growers out of business…

If you wish, and have a great attention span - I could write down a ‘Gospel of Tab’ bind it in the hardiest of rhinohide and let it sit for you to discover for 2000 years, gathering the most authentic types of dust.

Would you believe me then perhaps…?

you’ve watched a few to many movies

But you are right - I have watched far too many movies - Not that I believed them of course. Perhaps it is there that we differ.

I ask you to think of all the twisted, but entirely human, thoughts that from time to time scar their way across your psyche, would you expect God as mundane man to be above such things…? The human brain is not a pristine fountain bubbling forth only the palest of ambrosias - Sometimes it’s a real cess-pool.

And I ask you to suspend disbelief and consider that perhaps, one scorching day, sweating and thirsty amid a heaving mass of the unwashed and desperate, suffering maybe from a real killer headache right between the eyes - God as man did perhaps raise voice or fist in anger and stick someone’s palm-frond where the sun, in all its heavenly intensity, could not shine…

Can’t be all human without being just a little of the beast as well, no…?.

[vm1]

Well I want to say a lot more but I’m just gonna say this cause you whole argument is absolutly ridiculous and this is why.

You’re saying the bible is false, and that you could write down something, let it collect dust for 2000 years, and then i might believe it, just like you think i blindly believe the bible now. You essectially just ruined your whole argument, and this is where most people arguing you position go wrong, because if you don’t believe in the bible and think its false, you can by no way claim that God became a sinful human being. In fact, the only evidence you have that makes you believe Christ sinned is from the bible, which you apparently don’t believe in at all. Everything you argue (Christ being a pretty medicore human being) relies completely on a source you will have no part in, cause apparently its just a book which collected dust over 2000 years, which people are now blindly believing. So what am i saying is, don’t tell me what Christ was and did, when you don’t even believe in him. Or if you believe maybe some guy just lived named Christ 2000 years ago and its a coincidence then just say that, Christ isnt God. Then you could make a reasonable claim that Christ must have acted like a bad human being, cause we all commit evil, and not base you arguments on that damn false source, right?

Leave theology up to those who actually know something about it. Your claims don’t even represent what most of the Christian community believe in regards to Christ and him taking form as a man. It would be stupid of someone, to say hypothetically, to go read one page out of the declaration of the rights of man and citizen and then claim to know everything which happened in the French Revolution.

[kingdaddy]

@Tabula Rasa

I ask you to think of all the twisted, but entirely human, thoughts that from time to time scar their way across your psyche, would you expect God as mundane man to be above such things…? The human brain is not a pristine fountain bubbling forth only the palest of ambrosias - Sometimes it’s a real cess-pool.

And I ask you to suspend disbelief and consider that perhaps, one scorching day, sweating and thirsty amid a heaving mass of the unwashed and desperate, suffering maybe from a real killer headache right between the eyes - God as man did perhaps raise voice or fist in anger and stick someone’s palm-frond where the sun, in all its heavenly intensity, could not shine…

Can’t be all human without being just a little of the beast as well, no…?.

I think you misunderstand the laws and purpose of Choice set into motion by God for this existence. It is possible to choose correctly every time, its just our lazy desires to serve our self that makes it all but impossible to choose correctly every time. I’ll deal with the Purpose later if you want to know what I think about it.

First lets consider that Jesus was Gods personality, or Soul incarnate into the flesh, that would give him a bit more knowledge of cause and affect, he would know the laws of nature and see the consequences without having to make a mistake to see them. Add to that the fact that he had a specific mission and it did not require procreation like it does for us, there is no shortage of life here.

I believe that he was put on this earth in this flesh for a reference, a perfect reference as to how we could be if we choose selflessness over self with every choice we made. This would be logical in my mind as we would need some form of reference other then the words we hear in our hearts, we are after all quite weak in our struggle to choose to serve self over others. God never gave us a bible so we needed something else, an account of an extraordinary human that chose Love over self in every case and changed the world with his words with actions that backed them up. This historical account, even a flawed one is the only writings that God intended for us to have IMO, and it is not a bible.

This does not mean that Jesus was never tempted or tormented in his flesh and mind to choose self, I’m sure he was, but he did not, and for good reason. He knew better, no need to experiment; he created the laws of cause and affect. He had a task to perform and if he couldn’t do it perfectly then he would not be God incarnate and all humans would be doomed and God would be a liar and his whole system of choice would be flawed, but its not, it works. This should tell you something about choice, it should illustrate that the right choice can be made regardless of the circumstances; proof is in the pudding as we can make the right choice and many have done so under the most difficult circumstances.

Pain is evident in the flesh no matter what choice you make, so what’s the difference knowing that?

I’m continually amazes at how little everyone I discuss with knows about Gods nature and personality, it’s not like its hidden and since we are quickened with the Spirit of God we have constant direct contact to his knowledge through this Spirit, so there is no excuse for this misunderstanding. The only thing that keeps us from this truth taught in each heart is the fact that we are so selfish and lazy we make up our own truth to suite our desires, this lie keeps the Truth out and keeps us ignorant.

[Tab]

Leave theology up to those who actually know something about it.

Ooh - touchy vm1, touchy. And after only a few scathing remarks from a faceless nothing on a monitor screen. Let us hope Jesus had a little more reserve. A little more sang-froid.

It would be stupid of someone, to say hypothetically, to go read one page out of the declaration of the rights of man and citizen and then claim to know everything which happened in the French Revolution.

But surely the nebulous form of a loving God both surrounds and permeates us… No…? Suffuses us with love. In that case every Jack the lad off the street who can’t even read a newspaper, let alone something with as few car-chases as the bible… Intuitively knows God. An awareness of the almighty that, under the spotlight of our little monkey-intellect, might possibly allow just a tad of speculation…? By the armchair-theologians of our time…?