Jesus-Mohammed-Bhudha

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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Jesus-Mohammed-Bhudha.

When God enters the soul and body of His most beloved devotee (son of God), such devotee is called as the human incarnation. In the human incarnation, we find both God and Son of God mixed with each other in a perfect homogeneous state so that both are inseparable like the wire and the current in the live wire. The wire is the Son of God and current is God. The live wire is the human incarnation. The live wire must be treated as the current and there is no alternative way to experience the existence of current.

In this context, the misunderstanding arises. The live wire says that it is moving the fan. In fact, the current is speaking this through the wire. People misunderstand that the bloody wire is boasting about itself as itself moving the fan. The live wire looks like any other wire as far as the properties of the wire (metallic nature, leanness, etc.,) are concerned. This makes other wires to think that the live wire is also an ordinary wire without current, which is boasting about itself. This confusion lead to the crucifixion of Jesus by the public.

When Jesus claimed that He is the truth, the light and the Father of the heaven, this claim was not from the Son of God, but it was from God Himself. But, the observers have misunderstood this statement as that of Jesus. When the speaker is invisible, the mike looks as if it is speaking by itself. Here, at any time the speaker is not converted into mike or the current is not converted into wire. The two units exist separately even during the time of the human incarnation in which, both are homogeneously mixed to form a single phase. If this point is realized, Jesus might have escaped the crucifixion. It is this point, which is stressed by Mohammed. He said that God would never become human being or the vice-versa. This does not mean that the Son of God should not be treated as God in the human incarnation by the devotees.

If you deny this assumption of treating the Son of God as God, the devotees become dissatisfied because they prayed God for the experience of God and service to God. Then the very purpose of the human incarnation is lost. Mohammed clarified this concept to avoid the danger. But, His followers misunderstood that He denied the very concept of human incarnation. Thus Buddha and Mohammed should be taken as the preachers who warned about the reality of the concept to avoid the danger of loosing the highest fruit and punishing the human incarnation respectively. The followers have extrapolated the preaching and as a result, Buddhists thought that God does not exist and Muslims thought that the human incarnation does not exist.

The concept of human incarnation is introduced and explained well by Krishna in the Gita and Jesus in the Bible. Krishna says that God enters the human being and Jesus says that God is in flesh. This clearly means that God is neither the human being nor the flesh at any time. Buddha and Mohammed clarified the misunderstandings of the human beings about this concept. Buddha indicated God as unimaginable through silence and Mohammed indicated God as invisible. The desire to become God comes generally, when God is seen by eyes in human form. Generally, the concept of human incarnation is avoided only to avoid the birth of this desire to become God. When God is invisible, generally the human tendency is to get some benefit from the invisible God and not to become God. But, Alas! The Advaitin has not left even the invisible God! He wants to become even that invisible God! Why becoming God? He claims that he is already God. For this, he proposed that God is the invisible awareness (soul), which exists in his body mixed with qualities, which is called as the individual soul (jeeva). He proposed that simple filtration of qualities from the soul will yield the absolute God because according to him God is pure awareness without qualities. The Advaitin gave his own false concept of God and also his own false way to become God.

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It shouldn’t matter what religion you are. Christian, Hindu, Muslim…if you practice a religion in it’s highest form, then it should be very alike. Or, at least, it means the same no matter what denomination you are. Even an athiest, who (I don’t know, I’m not athiest) believes firmly in his own existence, if he developes that belief (as long as he isn’t conceited) then it would be the same as if a christian were praying to God.

In their highest form, Worship of Jesus=Adhering to Muhammud’s teachings=Following the 8-Fold Path.

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Only one God created this world

Hindus say that Brahman is the creator, Muslims say
That Allah is creator, Christians say that the creator is
Jehovah, all say that the creation is this entire world.
If Hindus say that Brahman created India, and if
Muslims say that Allah created Arabian countries and
If Christians say that Jehovah created the western countries,
The problem is solved, there can be three Gods together,
Who have created the three parts of the earth separately.
But this is not so, each religion says that their God only
Created the entire world, unfortunately there is one world!
One world only! Come on, all of you sit together here
And give me the final conclusion after debate, otherwise,
The scientists are laughing on all of you! Shame to all!

They criticize that these religions do not have even
The basic logic, which is the fundamental common sense.
Because of you, the greatest God is also mocked by them
They say that the religions are rigid conservatisms!
Even a small boy is putting this question to all of you.
Stop all your discourses and first answer this question.
If you want to say that God created the entire world,
You have to accept that there is one God only always
And that His names are all the above three names.

We see in the world a single person having three names.
If there is one God, He only created this entire world.
All the human beings are invariably His children only.
No Father is partial to a single child and therefore
He must have preached the same knowledge to all
In different languages and in different methodologies
To different levels, this is Universal Spirituality.

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Supposing the above is true, how about the world, then? How about the Creation? Is it separate from God? Is it not divine?

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Buddhists practice to realize the true nature of thought, what is thought isn’t relevent. “God does not exist” is a dualism, simply the other side of the coin to “God exists”. This dualistic view arises from a misunderstanding of what ‘self’ is.

This is a misrepresentation of the teachings, as I explained to you on another thread. The Buddha’s silence in that circumstance was not implying the existence of an ‘unimaginable God.’ Anyone may fill his silence with noise, but might want to note that it’s just noise.

Also, there are teachings elsewhere in the Buddhist suttas that refute the thing you’re describing as “God”. It’s a non-theistic doctrine.

It’s not possible to follow the Eightfold Path and worship Jesus. Although you can pick and choose pieces of both…but that makes it something different.

Perhaps you meant instead to equate the Eightfold path with the Ten Commandments. They both contain moral guidelines, so there are some similarities there…

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Dattaswami:

Your posts are every bit and disrespectful and rude as Spam.

When you come to a forum and make 20-30 new topics all about what you think, none of which really promotes conversation it is very disrespectful to the other forum members. Besides the obvious effect of obliterating the entire first page and moving all the decent posts out of sight, there is the issue that you cant possible tend to all of your topics and it seems that you don’t even intend to.

So since the moderation here is so poor here I think I’ll just say something.

Cut the shit out!

No need to start fifty fucking new topics all about your swami BS ideas.

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I only meant that they have equal weight with whatever power is out there.

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Dear Sauwelio;

This universe is not God and God is above this universe. The creator is above the creation. This entire creation is only the imagination of the absolute God.In such imagination i.e. the entire universe you are only a tiny soul. Thus if you compare the power of Lord to your power you are nothing infront of Him. Since the entire creation is His imagination or dream only; it is non-existant infront of Him and is nothing or nill or only God is existing. Thus truly only Lord is the existing one, and Hence He is the truth. Compared to His power this universe is nothing or only a dream.

Now such a God enters into this universe in Human form known as Human incarnation to give His presence.Thus Lord enters His dream. Then Human Incarnation is the correct place of Lord. Lord comes in human form so that interested devotees can approach Him without any tension and clarify their doubts through the divine knowledge emitted by Him.

Thus only through the human incarnation one can reach the absolute God who is beyond our imagination and comprehension.

So do not mistake this universe as God also Do not mistake Lord as formless, Lord is unimagniable and uncomprehendable, but He gives His presence through the human incarnation who comes in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls. He is there in this present generation also.

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Dear Ingenium;

Lord comes in human form in every humna generation to preach and uplif the human generation; Bhudha was one of the human incarnation.

When Human incarnation come He speaks according to the level of people and the receiver. When Lord came as Bhudha He mainly preached the concept of dharma to be maintained by obeying various rules of justice. He did not touch the topic Lord or pleasing the Lord etc. His main purpose was to preach the path of Justice.

He know if He introduce the concept of unimaginable GOD etc then such topics may not serve the purpose in that existing circumstances and the need of the hour was the preaching regarding the importance of Justice at that time. It does not mean that Bhudha were incapable of preaching in detail about service to Lord etc.

Thus you must analyse the preaching of Lord in human form in the context of the surroundings. When Lord came in Jesus form He preached Pravrutti ( Justice) as well as Nivrutti ( Pleasing Lord in human form through service).

He preached the common people about pravrutti, because their level was that much only and they were not even obeying the justice that time. SO He preached like, you must even love your enemies, help your neighbours etc etc. These are the preliminary levels in spirituality that majority can accept and follow.

He preached Nivrutti to His dearest disciples. In Nivrutti Lord in human form reveals about Him self. He tell I am the way nobody reaches the unimaginable Absolute God other than through Me. He reveals to St. Peter that He is the Lord in Human form and asked him to not to tell this to others, He very well know that once this new is propagated then all ordinary people will mock Jesus by seeing His ordinary exteranl human body and will tell Jesus is mad etc. Eventually this news only lead to crucification of Jesus.

In Nivrutti you have to even forgo the justice for Lord in Human form. Jesus told His dearest disciples that ‘Unless you hate your mother, fahter, son wife husband etc you cannot become My dearest disciple’. This means that if one want to please Lord one has to leave the justice and should vote for the Lord in Human form.

The ultimate aim of this human life is to please the Lord through loving service to Him without any expectation of reward.

His dsiciples followed that and got salvation. Lord died for His real devotees upon the cross and saved them from their sins.

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Why? Why cannot the universe be divine?

Is there a creator? How do you know?

You cannot even compare me to him, because I exist only in his imagination. “I” do not really exist. Only God exists. There is no creation outside of his mind.

But this dream is also divine, as it is part of him. If the tv is divine, the image on the screen must also be divine. So “I”, a little form on the screen for a short time, am also divine.

Devotees? But these figments of his imagination can never be devoted to him, as they do not really exist. They do not exist apart from him. But he may dream that he is only such a figment. So I might be the incarnation of God!

Er, yes, because those imagined men have no imagination, they are imagination. There is really only the God.

Yes, he is the imagining Being, who imagines himself as one person among many. But he really is the only Person - and not even that.

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The Buddha taught suffering and the end of suffering. That’s pretty well known, so no big revelation…but the point is that the root of suffering is treated differently in Buddhism and Judeo-Christian doctrines. As for this purpose that you assert the Lord had to make himself into Buddha, well, if you’re implying that a kammic-based doctrine treats ‘justice’ in the same way as a Judeo-Christian doctrine, then that’s not remotely accurate. If the concept of ‘justice’ is accepted at all in Buddhism, it’s more along the lines of the Mahayana ideal of the bodhisattva, a being who postpones nirvana until all beings are awakened. (I’ve heard some postulate that Jesus was a bodhisattva…but he wasn’t a buddha.) That ideal presupposes the right of all to be happy, or freed from suffering and can be extrapolated to the external, or to society. In that sense, Buddhists can engage in a form of activism based on the principals of wisdom and compassion, rather than ‘right-wrong’ or judge-judged or quid pro quo.

Your statements quoted above are pure invention, not supported by anything that the Buddha or the great scholars and teachers who succeeded him ever taught. You seem to have a complex, albeit not always comprehensible, but certainly determined and likely sincerely believed, religious philosophy. My perspective on your belief is that it’s an invention, a dream. With that said, it’s your dream and you’re entitled to have it. But it may not serve you well to make up stuff like the above, at least not if your intention is to convince others that you’ve found that which is IT. What you write sounds nonsensical to me at times. You have no knowledge of “Lord” taking on the role of “Buddha”, and there is no such evidence from the teachings of either. You (or someone you know) made it up. The fact that you’re spreading it pretty widely across this forum makes me think it’s important to you that others believe it, too. But if what you write is perceived as magical thinking, writing it over and over again won’t change that.

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The only issue I have with referencing God is that there’s really no hard proof (that I’ve seen). There’s peace and love and such, but that could have come about naturally, not a gift from God. I’m not saying the God isn’t All-powerful, just that all these things you attribute to him are beliefs, not proven facts.

I actually do believe in God, but I think that our world (the bad, and the good) are a result of human effort. God is involved only in that He is the Source from which we came.

But please don’t put the spiritual above the physical. They have equal importance. God is not the universe, but He isn’t above it either. God would be the spiritual plane, the universe is the physical. God (the closest idea of God I can come up with at least) would not want us to embrace Him at the cost of our bodies.

I guess I’ll end by saying this–while written holy texts and such are good blueprints to structure an argument on, they should not be taken 100% word for word. Holy texts were written by man, and even if God himself wrote them, the languages of man are insufficient to convey His message accurately. They’re open to interpretation. Holy texts are a good springboard to launch an argument from, but they shouldn’t pervade your arguments.

dattaswami, you’re a smart guy, but you’re uncompromising, and I’d say impersonal (no offense). It’s hard for me to debate with people like that because I’m not sure which points you concede.

BTW, Ingenium, the cause of suffering isn’t all that different. Well, the terminology is somewhat different, but the meaning is the same. Xtians believe that the root of all evil is greed. Buddhists believe that suffering comes from attachment. Evil is related to suffering, and greed is certainly a subset of attachment. So you see, there’s not that big of a difference.

Also, dattaswami has backed most of what he believes with holy text. Whether that’s a sufficient base is a matter of opinion.

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You receive everything accoring to your deeds you performed, for good deeds you get good results and for bad deeds you get bad result. Even an atheist can get peace, by detaching himself from all the family bonds and worldly bonds and having staying in the state of self.

Soul is like a stand still water, and various qualities of the soul is like waves in the water. If you filter these waves you can stay in the stand still water, by this you get tremendous peace. The disturbance are coming from your association with the worldly bonds.

Now Pleasing GOd is differnt from attaining peace for your self. God is the creator of this entire universe and we are part of His creation only. God is beyond this creation and anything happening in this world will not affect Him, because this entire creation is only an imagination of God and Hence not really existing infront of Him and He is the only truly existing one or the Truth. But for us this creation is real because compared to the power of this world our power is very very small. But Gods power is very very huge compared to this entire Universe and the universe is nothing infront of Him!

God created this entire universe for His entertainment, if He is modififed into the creation then His original aim will not get satisfied, becasue to get entertained He should be different from the creation.

You can perceive such God here itself in this world, by identifying the present Human Incarnation. By this you can see Him, talk to Him, co-live with Him, touch Him and clear all your doubts.

His one of the property is the true infinite divine knowledge which removes all our doubts without any trace.

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Lord is above creation, and He enters into this creation in the form of Human incarnation, and Human Incarnation and universe are different, because any item of the creation can be imagined and Hence it is not the God. Lord is unimaginable and incomprehendable and beyond Logic, such absolute God comes in to this world in human form and He gives His presence to us.

So, if you catch hold of the present human incarnation then you have seen the absolute God in human form. You can touch Him, see Him talk to Him and co-live with Him. His identity mark is the true infinite divine knoweldge which removes all our doubts.

He is available now in this world.

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This universe is modification of His power only and do not contain God.Thus universe is not divine, means do not contain God. But God enters this universe in Humna form to give His presence to us.

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I told you that only with respect to God this universe is unreal, but with respect to the soul this entire universe is existing and real to him. This is because the power of this universe is infinite compared to the power of individual soul. This universe is not a dream for the individual soul, it is real for him.

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Thank you the nice reply;but let us understand about meaning of the word Justice or Dharma;

The word Dharma means the characteristic property which stands for the identification of an item. The Dharma of fire is burning by which it is identified as fire. It is the expected natural behaviour of an item in the creation. If the fire is cool, such coolness is Adharma which means that it is not the expected property of the specific entity.

The human being in this creation is a specified entity and is expected to show certain characteristic properties (Dharmas) by which he or she is identified as the human being. If the human being shows the characteristic properties of other specified items, it loses its identification. When God created various items in this world, He has assigned certain characteristic properties to be associated with the corresponding items. Therefore the possession of Dharma is the will of God. The balance of the creation is maintained when specified items exhibit their specified properties assigned by God. All the inert items like fire, water etc. are strictly following the will of God. God created this universe for entertainment. The entertainment is disturbed if the natural balance is upset. God has given freedom to the human beings, which is the inherent desire of the souls.

God has full freedom to change any characteristic property of any specified item. When He wished, the fire could not burn, the air could not move and the water could not quench even a dry grass blade. Since He is omnipotent, He has unlimited freedom. But the souls have very little potentiality. Their freedom is naturally conditional and limited. The living being has little freedom within its specified boundary of its potentiality. If freedom is not given, it is not a living being. Among the living beings, the human being has full potentiality due to analytical faculty (Buddhi) and thus relatively more freedom is granted to it. The human being should understand the limits of its capability and should freely behave within that specified boundary.

Such behaviour is Dharma which is expected by God. If the limits are violated and the behaviour of some other category like animals is shown, the soul is punished and the soul is pushed into the life cycle of animals. Such animal lives in the forest and can have its characteristic behaviour which does not upset the balance of animal kingdom in the forest. But when a human being lives in the society of human beings and behaves like an animal, the society of human beings is disturbed. The humanity is the most advanced race of the living beings into which God often enters in human form (Manusheem Tanumasritam –Gita). Dharma is called as Pravrutti which is the expected behaviour of the human being with the other co-human beings to maintain the balance of humanity. Only in humanity, the spiritual effort is taken up by some blessed and realized human beings. Therefore the behaviour of the human being should not upset any other human being. Therefore if a co-human being is a devotee of God and a spiritual aspirant, he or she should not be even hurt. God excuses even the atheist who abuses Him but will never spare if the atheist even hurts the devotee.

You should not hurt the feelings of any co-human being except in the case of punishment. Even in the punishment, your aim should not be to hurt the sinner but to change him. Even if you are an atheist you must respect the devotees also because they are your co-human beings. Whether you are an atheist or theist, you are expected to maintain the balance of the human society. The highest Dharma is only not to hurt any soul including birds and animals. Even a tree is a living being and you should not cut any green tree. Non-violence towards the living beings is the essence of Dharma (Ahimsa Paramo dharmah). Ungratefulness is said to be the highest sin (Adharma). An atheist who may have any number of good qualities is the highest sinner because he is ungrateful to the creator. A theist who may have any number of bad qualities is good with reference to such atheist (Apichetsa –Gita). Of course you are expected to be a theist with good qualities.

An atheist with bad qualities is the worst, called as demon and will be punished by God immediately. Therefore gratefulness to the creator and not hurting any soul except in the punishment is the essence of Dharma. As long as you are not disturbing the balance of society, God does not distinguish the good and bad qualities applied in the path of the spiritual journey. The hunter who gave flesh as offering to the Lord attained the eternal abode of God. He killed a rabbit which is a harmless animal but neither he nor his family took that flesh. He did not sell the flesh. This sin was excused by God due to lack of selfishness and immense love to God. As long as Lord does not enter into your life, you have to reject Adharma and vote for Dharma.

But when God enters your life, you have to vote for God only even against Dharma, if required (Sarvadharman-Gita). Dharmaraja did not tell a lie even though the Lord asked him to tell a lie. He voted for Dharma against God. The result of Dharma is temporary and he went to heaven for some time. He did not go to the permanent abode of God. In fact, dharma need not have any reward because it is expected behaviour. The heaven is only a consolation gift to encourage not to do Adharma. Arjuna killed His grandfather Bhishma on the instruction of the Lord and he was permanently associated with the Lord Narayana as Nara. God is the greatest and is beyond even dharma.

After all, the aim of Dharma is only not to displease God. In Pravrutti which has no reference to God, you should not displease any co-human being. In Nivrutti, you should please God at the cost of even sacrificing Dharma. In Pravrutti, you should not leave your old parents, your wife and your children. But in Nivrutti, Shankara left His old mother, Prahalada got his father killed, Buddha left His wife and child and Meera left Her husband. The result of Pravrutti is not to displease God whereas the result of Nivrutti is to please God. One should not confuse with these two fields (Pravruttincha Nivruttincha –Gita). The expected behaviour (Dharma) differs in these two fields separately. You have to follow Dharma corresponding to the field in which you exist.

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I was referencing Buddhism. What you’ve described is not what the Buddha taught.