At his last supper Jesus ordered his followers to drink his blood with the promise of eternal life, and this ritual has been re-enacted ever since by the church. Symbolic or not, what does this mean?
The good news is we know we are drinking wine and eating a bread wafer.
Reminds me of a conversation in France with an elderly lady … when the subject came up she used the word “carnival” … not sure what that means in English but I think I get her drift.
The ritual was likely grafted on to Catholicism from some ancient sacrificial ritual. I find it hard to believe that so many people seem able to transcend the fact that the ritual promotes cannibalism. I’ve rarely observed any degree of piety from participants. My wife was particularly incensed when she was refused the wafer several years ago because she hadn’t been through the indoctrination process … she was permanently turned off Catholicism
The underlying motivation for participating in the ritual seems OK … to encourage internalizing the message in the Jesus story. Now that I write this … seems like a contradiction. If God is within … why the need to regularly digest Him. Hmmm!
I prefer the early Christian practice of breaking bread together … seems more humane … the message being … let’s do lunch and have a chat.
Hopefully the Catholic church will change it’s rituals some day.
I’m still OK with being Roman Catholic … don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
The problem comes from seeing the symbolic literally. Symbolic interpretations of events are meta narratives. I think Jesus knew this bread and wine were not actually his body and blood, but used this symbolic interpretation to arrive at a higher understanding of his relationship with his disciples. The symbolic interpretation serves as a reminder in the same way a cross reminds one of Jesus’ sacrifice. On the literal level a cross is a just another object, sometimes worn around one’s neck. It’s made of wood, plastic or metal. On the meta level of understanding the cross represents one’s view of Christ. On the meta meta level it represents the conjunction of horizontal, linear time with the vertical line of eternity, the reaching across as intersected with the reaching above (Boethius).
homo sapien is a species of vampire. To survive, he feeds on the life energy of other homo sapiens. This life energy comes from feelings of dominance over his rivals. Jesus said to eat his body and drink his blood. So Jesus is not really the god of vampires; rather, he is the god of the sacrifice. The species, as a whole, cannot survive without this sacrifice.
The OP has a reversal of assumeable logic working against its premise. Vampires are the ones that feast on flesh and blood, not the one they are feasting on.
This reversal goes hand in glove with what can be identified as the cultural reversal in faith itself. That is why faith is based on subtle discernment of what the idea of the spirit and the soul entail.
More emerging thoughts … fresh out of the oven … yet no doubt connected to earleir experiences and thoughts.
What does the “baby” symbolize in the “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water” expression.
Perhaps the word and imagery of “baby” is a symbol of “message”. My intention with the word “message” is not a
bundle of words or images … rather an intermediary, a bridge, a connection. The ‘message’ … the connection exists
without words or images.
Seems all cultures employed an intermediary to receive and transmit messages from the Divine … Dali Lama, Pope,
Shaman, Medicine Man, Chief Priest, Pharoah, Emperor(In China known as Son of Heaven) and so on. For me, this is
much like the use of an intermediary such as language (verbal and written) when receiving and transmitting thoughts
between two or more minds. We generally accept that this intermediary(language) as a communication device is often
less than optimum … IOW words are a fragile communication device.
I suppose throughout history leaders understood that ‘one on one’ communication with the Divine among the masses …
or any particular social unit … would result in chaos and the loss of any ability to harness these social groups into a
cohesive unit. Chardin has suggested this prervailing paradigm is changing and will end in what he calls the Omega Point
… a time where each individual communicates directly with the Divine. I believe he suggested it may take another million
years. Then again, it may happen in 6 weeks. It will happen at the appointed time.
The Roman Catholic religion may be more balanced than many others … likely a result of the ‘invisible hand’ more than
any hand of man. Perhaps an instance of the law of unintentional consequences.
How so?
The Roman Catholic dogma of the Virgin Mary … the Immaculate Conception … the Bodily Assumption into Heaven.
The above dogma attempts to elevate the humanity of Mary … to render the person of Mary as Divine. This dogma …
like the Jesus story … likely surfaced for ‘political’ reasons rather than metaphysical ones.
I’m not sure the authors and supporters of this particular dogma intention was to keep the “feminine” component of the
Divine alive. The “feminine” aspect of the Divine existed … exists … in many indigenous religions … and some flourished
for a very long time. Greek mythology comes to mind. I understand Athena and Appolo had some kind of contest to
decide the name of the central city in Greece. Myth or fiction … we have Athens in Greece.
A masculine/feminine “message” … connection to the Divine … feels better to me than a solely patriarchal or matriarchal
one.
The essence of this masculine/feminine “message” … the Jesus and Mary story … can be found in the Chinese philosophy
of Yin Yang. The Chinese simply did not use human faces and names to create their “message” … their bridge between
man and the Divine.
If he was a vampire God, wouldn’t he be asking to drink their blood? Going around telling people to drink your blood makes you sort of an anti-vampire, if anything.
Pilgrim Tom: that point, the Omega point is accessible right now. It will not come in a million years, or a billion incarnations. It is the Satori, available. Now, this very instance. But 99.999999999999999999999999999999 % have to wait for it to ‘happen’. This is the top of the power pyramid, whereby the occult foundation can be discovered. What is the key? If it is described it vanishes.
Jeremiah 23:5-6
To “drink of the blood of another” in scriptural terms means to take the deepest passions and concerns of another into oneself - “issues of the heart” - “blood”.
To “drink of the blood of Christ” is to accept the issues and concerns of Christ as your own.
… hardly a mystery.
Jerkey … I enthusiastically agree with you!!
Seems to me that many of the members of ILP are in the vanguard of Chardin’s theory … Omega Point. They experience direct communications with the Divine. Like always … anyone who has such an experience meets with fierce resistance from the adherents of communal belief systems.
I believe at times I see the fruit of their communications (with the Divine) … but they appear to me as leaves drifting in the wind … I don’t see any tethers to human history. Perhaps these "tethers’ are the next step. I don’t know.
Irrellus … I feel like sharing 2 explanations of the symbolism embedded in the ‘cross’. I can’t vouch for any ‘truth’ in them yet they have a ‘ring of truth’ to me.
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From a Catholic priest … my parish priest during the early years of my weird experiences. He told me the vertical line symbolizes the connection between God and man … the bridge … the “message” I referred to earlier. This connection … this bridge … this message … is what some philosophers refer to as … “a priori” … I think. Certainly I’m trying to say this bridge(message,connection) existed before man adorned it with words and images … the result being various imprints of it in the consciousness of man across cultures time and space. He went on to explain that the horizontal line symbolizes Jesus stretching out his arms to embrace all of humanity.
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From a young woman … Slavic I think … who I met on a mountain in Medugorje. She gave me the same story for the vertical line. Her understanding of the horizontal line was quite different … quite unique in my view. She told me the vertical line … by itself … symbolizes a harmony between the will of man and the will of God. She went on to say the vertical line and the horizontal line … as a pair … symbolize the times when man’s will and God’s will are not in harmony. She went on to suggest that when man’s will and God’s will are out of sync the result is pain and suffering.
Thanks for these explanations. I see both as valid, as truths on a meta narrative level of understanding. We are immersed in linear time, which progresses with some regression, but still moves on in stages (states)in a linear fashion. For a timeless being to contact us, he would have to break through our temporality at some point in history. I see the breakthrough as a “timequake” with repercussions before and after the event. Perhaps Confucius anticipated Christ.
Blood and body on the symbolic level indicate spirit and being. I agree with those who claim Maia got it backwards. One does not suck the blood of a vampire. It is the vampire who is hungry for blood.