Jesus was a good guy right???

this is my philosophy: jesus was a good guy right??and look what happened to him. He was beaten, humiliated and then left to die in an excruciating way. Jesus was one of the greatest men who ever lived. He was faithful to God and there was no one who loved and pleased God more. The way i see it, why strive to be a good, faithful Christian when one fine day God may decide to martyr you for humanity? Jesus wasn’t really given a choice i don’t think. When the eternal one,in a realm of power of his own, tells u to do something, u do it! Why sacrifice the one person who was truly loyal to you for the sins of immortal men?

What I believe is that Christ was too good, which means that He wasn’t fair to Himself. Because if He had been fair to Himself then He would have given tit for tat. Now where is it written that you should be fair to others but not yourself? Do you think that God would suggest something like that? No! He couldn’t, simply because He’s God. It is Christ who implied by allowing Himself to be martyred that God martyrs people for humanity’s sake. So don’t go and blame God here, ok? Moreover, God does not say that we should love Him, please Him or be faithful to Him, etc., why would He say that? Have you ever thought about it? If He is God and He cares about all humanity then don’t you think that He would just expect all of us to live our life responsibly? Which means that in as much as I am good to you, I should also be good to myself. And this is precisely where Christ went wrong. He should have realized that when you love yourself enough, only then can you love others. So to me Christ’s sacrifice shows not His love for His bretheren but rather, either His choice, vulnerability or victimization. I would say it was the latter, that is, victimization at the hands of the govt. for all His sayings that the govt. didn’t like, or why would He cry at the end,

"He cried out [on the cross], “‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’- which means, `My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”’ (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34). "

Also, Christ failed to understand that we shouldn’t try to dictate what we feel is right, to others. What right do we have in doing so? If you have something to say, say it, but don’t enforce it on others. So you see in as much as you care about others, you should also care about yourself the same or this world won’t love you either, if you don’t love yourself enough. So, I would say that Christ was much too good a guy to be fair to Himself and that’s why He suffered and not because God martyred Him for humanity. If God is God He’d be fair, why would He martyr anyone for anybody, He wouldn’t, or He wouldn’t be God.

who said i was blaming God??i was just questioning some of his actions. jesus never enforced his beliefs on anyone. he preached them. The bible is the word of God right, and the bible tells people to preach the word of God. Jesus was just doing what God would want him to do. And by the way are u blaming jesus?? if jesus was too good, as u put it, then God should have never put him on earth. why did he allow jesus to endure the pain? the humiliation? If God could bend the rules a couple of times and talk to people then why couldn’t he save his son from torture. unless of course he was allowing him to be martyred for the sins of humanity. thus taking me back to my previous question. why strive to be a good christian, when look what happened to the most righteouss of them all.
as for God’s expectations of us, i know for a fact that he has them. it must hurt for him to watch his “creations” who he loves so much, openly defy him. he has his expectations but he doesn’t impose them on us. we have the freedom to choose. which is why God gave us a mind. If he had expectations, we would have been given programmed feelings and thoughts. Not the freedom he gave us.
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Has it ever occured to you that when we are bad, we are bad, but we are also bad when we are too good because we are not being fair to ourselves? And in being too good perhaps we might be propagating some wrong or letting some evil prevail? Does the logic get to you? That is why it is imperative that we focus on being responsible, not good or bad 'cause they are relative terms, how would you define what is good or what is bad? Besides, the Bible is NOT the word of God, it is the word of Christ and others, alright? It is Christ who suggests that it is the word of God. And yes, you were blaming God and saying that someone who was too good and faithful to God got martyred by Him. Didn’t you say that? And Christ was not doing what God wanted Him to do, it is Christ who said that that’s what God wanted Him to do. How would you know the truth what God wanted Christ to do or say? If God wanted to say that then wouldn’t He have come down on earth Himself to say that and have said that? And you yourself emphasize my point that God wouldn’t “impose” His thoughts on anyone, He gives us “freedom” too, then at the same time How can you suggest that the Bible is the word of God? I don’t understand you at all.

U say i’m contradicting myself?? u’re the one who said that by being too good we propagate evil. Now if that isn’t a contradiction i dunno wat is Does the logic get to you? Please explain why it is imperative to be responsible?? i don’t feel its imperative to be good,bad,responsible or anything for that matter. If the bible isn’t the word of God then how is it that u formed all these perceptions on Christ being at fault,the need to exercise responsibilityetc. if its not the word of God then why even form opinions on it? i can’t argue that God didn’t write the bible. he dictated it to others. and by the way its not the word of christ either cos he didn’t do any writting. it simply tells of things he said and did. it does the same with God.so if its not the word of God, its not the word of Christ either. Christ is not the only one who suggests its the word of God, mate.
I wasn’t blaming GOD i was just questioning some of his acctions like i said. And indirectly u blame God as well, by blaming Jesus. what is your interpretation on God? i can see its not Christian. Not that i follow Christianity. I’m just analysing it. I DID NOT say Christ was martyred by God. I meant that Christianity teaches that. Haven’t u ever heard people saying “Jesus died for our sins” well if jesus truly did die for our sins then i definately question the logic in that.You said Christ was not doing what God wanted Him to do, it is Christ who said that that’s what God wanted Him to do, how do u know that??? how do u know what God wanted him to do? Saying that God would come down to earth and say things for himself is a trivial deduction. God has never come down to earth to say things for himself so why would he do it then. it just breaks the rules of existence. U saw what happened to Moses when god spoke to him. he aged like a problem. thats just a minor effect of being spoken to by God. i emphasized your point that God wouldn’t “impose” His thoughts on anyone, He gives us “freedom” too, because i agreed with you. no harm in that is there?

IMHO, this thread belongs in the Religion forum.

Michael

Nikol_numb,
When I said that if we are too good then we have a hand in propagating the bad or evil, I meant that we let OTHERS get away with doing wrong stuff. And for the rest of it, to make a long story short - If God dictates something to others like what’s in the Bible (as you say) then, every single thing the Bible says would be applicable today and in every single situation too, but it’s not. Not only that, a lot of the stuff in there is highly ambiguous, not clear. If Bible was the word of God then everything would be crystal clear and understandable and applicable. Every single person on earth as such would follow the Bible, but they don’t. Therefore, the Bible could not have been the word of God, only of Christ, John, Paul, Matthew, etc… Ok?

And in, “i emphasized your point that God wouldn’t “impose” His thoughts on anyone, He gives us “freedom” too, because i agreed with you. no harm in that is there?” I was just just emphasizing what you said about no imposition and freedom instead, how did they become my words? I was actually agreeing with you because you said something so good and rational that God would give us complete freedom to do as we like according to our emotions and use of intellect provided we consider others’ rights. The only thing I disagreed on was that after this if you say that there is something like the Bible with which many don’t agree then how does God give us freedom? Whatever…
And as to Christ dying on the cross “for our sins,” how do YOU know that it was God’s wish. As far as I see, if God is God and truly great then He would be the last being to see something like that happen let alone perpetuate it. So yes! My feeling and logic tells me that God did not ask of Christ to, “die for our sins.” Doesn’t your heart tell you that God of all beings would be the fairest of all? Hehehe! I mean the most fair of all. I mean the most just of all. :laughing:

Its a good god thats evil!

Tell men there sins killed the son of god. You can make guilty people do anything.

AMEN!! thats why religion has such a strong hold over people. the attitude is “oh you sin and sin and if u don’t go to church u going to hell, hell.” then they say “nobody is perfect, we all sin.” T’is true, i couldn’t agree more. THen why make us feel guilty??? Just like INoNothing said (contrary to his/her name) its cos u can make guilty people do anything. Including give up 50% of their wages to the church.

.Jesus didn’t come to earth to play world policeman so it seems natural that he let people get away with too much.u said previously that jesus imposed his beliefs on people. if that was truly the case then why did he let people get away with doing wrong things?? of course the bible isn’t applicable today, it was written like thousands of years ago. things have changed. but basic guidelines that he wishes for humanity to live by haven’t.
“If Bible was the word of God then everything would be crystal clear and understandable and applicable.” you said… thats not true!!! firstly nothing comes that easy. secondly, its not crystal clear to many because they don’t want to take time to think about it. besides its been changed over the years. By the way i don’t think its the exact word of God because the original bible was burnt by the Romans. Nevertheless the concepts are pretty much Godly. Its not perfect but its as close as we can get. And i agree with u, it is ambiguous which is why i questioned popular belief that jesus died for our sins. I just wonder why God allowed for that to happen. ANd i never instigated that God asked Jesus to do it. I meant Jesus did a lot of his “being good” stuff cos God asked him too. And God gave us freedom to choose so not Every single person on earth as such would follow the Bible.

i don’t think God asked Jesus to die for our sins. i think Christianity has told us that. i think God may have just allowed Jesus to die a painful death… if the bible is indeed accurate.

Greetings.

I am very new here, and already I like what I see. People exchanging ideas on a (pretty much) friendly basis. I just wanted to correct (from a Christian’s perspective) some of the thoughts and statements made the above arguers. First of all, Nikol_numb, Jesus wasn’t just another righteous Christian, martyered (supposedly) by God. Christ was the founder of the Christian religion!! He himself said “No one has taken it away from Me but I lay it down on my own initiative, and I have authority to take it up again.” John 10:11 Jesus wasn’t a martyr for God, killed by Him, but instead was in agreement with God about dying, and thus founded the Christian Religion. Also, God wasn’t being “unfair” by killing Christ for humanity! He was instigating his perfect plan by killing Him to pay for humanities crimes!! Imagine a judge, who is a very upright man, upholding the law, and dealing out punishment to criminals. when a man comes before him who has broken the law, no matter how compassionate or kind the judge may be, he must uphold the law!!! Jesus is he who steps in, of his own initiative, and PAYS FOR THE CRIME HIMSELF!!! What a guy!! One final comment. Going to church isn’t neccessary to save you. (and it’s a shame you think you need to contribute money to the church. Shame on them for making you think that!) Being a nice person isn’t going to do squat either. As I said before, the law has been broken, (and yes, we should feel guilty) but being “good” isn’t going to help you when you’ve recieved the death penalty! The one thing that is necessary is to realize you’ve broken God’s law (lying, stealing, etc, because I, and everybody else has) but don’t stop with feeling guilty. Ask Jesus to forgive this breech in his law (He will) but don’t stop there!! Ask him to then “come into your life” and work his will in you!

“I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me” --Jesus.

First of all Jesus was the SON of God. Basically he was the human form of God. And incase you havnt been told- he died for the sins of the world- your sins my sins and so forth. His reason for living was dying. In the jewish times to be made right with God you ha to give a pure sacrifice - an unspeckled lamb or so. So that the world could be made right with God a perfect sacrifice had to made- this was Jesus. And he did get a choice. He could have come down off that cross if he wanted- but he didn’t he knew that if he did our lives would be hopeless- thats why Jesus CHOSE to do his father’s will and die on the cross.

Jesus was resurrected and compensated for his loyalty:

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

Philippians 2:9
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,

Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

JESUS WAS NOT A MARTYR …HE Orchestrated it all for you knowing what you would do and what need to be done…NOT A MARTYR if you doubt read the text and study Predestination you’ll see

I have to radically disagree with all you say and I can even prove you wrong my dear. God asks for sacrifice, really? Why? You think God is unjust, a fool? Some stupid? Think about this, if this were true then what would be the point of sacrifice that God desired if in that very act He was being unjust to someone in particular? You think God is some moron to bring justice by enacting injustice? That would be just like saying Oh! Baby! ‘Let’s go to war because it will bring peace.’ We humans make that mistake but why would God? Nonsense! And no, Christ didn’t have a choice of not being crucified, it was forced upon Him by the government at the time that disagreed with much of what Christ emphasized and I believe that incensed the government because it must have made it look small. Whatever…

Jesus is the greatest man who never lived.

Good point Dr. Satanical.

I would like to recomend anyone to read The Jesus Mysteries, or Jesus and the Lost Goddess by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. They are books about how early christians most likely created Jesus to compete with the early Mystery Cults. Evidence of this can be seen in the similarities between Jesus and the Man/Gods of the Mystery Cults.

ill be the radical and say, YES Jesus was a good man. But to die for our sins under an accepted agreement with GOD about what was to happen is hard for me to swallow. The legend of Jesus lives on very easy because people are so obsessed with the “EGO” thats they WANT to feel safe and free and allow the legend of Jesus to help pamper their ideals of who am I and what should I be doing. All living beings want to survive, and fear harm and death whenever they are aware of the danger. Perhaps my random mind today is way way way off right now.

Beena Jain i am disgusted at your fucking idiocy.

How in GOD’s NAME can you be so damn arrogant and ignorant at the same time? You are gay!

GAY GAY GAY

i registered here JUST TO TELL YOU THAT.

that is my PHILOSOPHY.

get a fucking life.

please.

someone before mentioned guilt, and that being the basis of religion? (forgive any misinterpretation, I’m new and this is how I have chosen to interpret it as I will make my case for this)

In a way, is this not implying that God is manipulative? And that a religion that claims to advocate purity and innocence etc etc is commiting it’s own sin. I’m a firm believer that the Bible is a book of hypocrisy, with each passage further contradicting itself, and I think that religion works on some of the most compelling emotions that envelop mankind.

Fear, guilt and self-esteem.

Followers are in fear of “sin”, of going against the grain, of doing something that will be judged as wrong by others. (Indicating another human nature in which we long to be accepted and belong)

Followers are guilty for the martyr who died for their sins, working as a motivation not to “sin”, however magnifying sins that are committed.

Those who feel they are being"good Christians" , who are accepted by their faith, who do as others believe is right, feel better about themselves, increasing their own personal sense of self-worth.

THATS HOW THEY ALL GET SUCKED IN. :evilfun:

Religion is the biggest conspiracy in history