jesus was just a guy…the important thing about the jesus story was the message…is there any value to any of the so-called message???
“The message” implies a single message. Jesus talked about a lot of stuff. Some of it may have value for us, and some not. Anything in particular interest you?
thanks typist----my point here is to make the story more human and not supernatural.
i would like to discard the virgin birth and the rising from the dead things…
Ok, gotcha. Once that’s done, anything left that interests you?
The fundamental message was that the way to manage Mankind is through networked love and hope (thus the forgiveness issue).
Hope gathers
Fear scatters
The purpose of any religion is to maintain the gathering because single homosapians haven’t a chance against nature and certainly not against other mischievous homosapians.
But a critical element in that message is “networking” without which no ethics will save anyone.
“Where ever two or more gather in my name, I am there.”
Networking? Gee James, you make it sound so business-like. 
How about the phrase interdependent relationships?
If you’re to do that though, little reptile, you might as well use any other number of human beings as an example who were christ-like. Take away the virgin birth or at least the resurrection, and christ is made as human as most of us - well, perhaps more fully human than the rest of us. But perhaps more insane being that he thought he was divine and allowed himself to die on a cross to save us.
His message was about love, compassion, truth, solidarity, struggle, detachment, trust, finding joy in the simple as in becoming as little children in order to see and find joy in a world of wonder…ad continuum.
…and you make it sound so intellectual. 
Good thing we aren’t their proselytizers, huh. 
I would argue that this doesn’t explain the personal nature of the relationship with Jesus that characterizes the religion.
Imho, the bottom line is that the individual doesn’t really care about the best way to manage mankind. That’s for philosophers, not real people. 
The individual cares about the individual. Thus, we might reason that any religion that survives a long time and includes billions of people has done a good job of addressing that individual concern first and foremost.
“What’s in it for me?” is always the bottom line question.
And I suppose that you think he was merely preaching to the little guys, totally unaware of what the kings and prophets would deduce as they watched?
That was his point to the Kings as well.
“If you want your kingdom to be eternal, do it this way…”
And so Jesus cameth down from upon the mountain, and said unto the multitude…
In a private message emailed directly to the World Philosophers Association just before his untimely death and timeless undeath, Jesus typed…
Good question Typist. How many denominations are there each with their own take on Jesus’ message, to say nothing of the readings of theologians, historians, academics, and the rest of us? According to some, if you discard the miraculous, there is nothing special about the “guy.” While I am not among those, I do think that the miraculous claims have helped keep Jesus in the limelight through the centuries. What do you say, turtle?
The ancient world was full of magicians who performed miracles. Virgin births and births resulting from intercourse between women and gods was common.
We don’t worship most of these people and don’t have religions based on them. Probably, there was something special about Jesus and the combination of his life and his message.
Interesting point phyllo. Perhaps it was a perfect storm of reinforcing factors. A highly charismatic individual with the right message in the right place at the right time etc.
Charisma is a powerful thing. I went to the same high school as the Allman Brothers, and have been infected with the power of Duane Allman mythology my whole life. And he was just a 23 year old guitar player. A good one yes, but so were literally a million others.
A collector I know here in town recently came in to possession of the guitar Allman used to record some of his most well known albums. To the Duane cult, the guitar is like a holy relic. I felt the pull of this relic myself. Truly I did. The collector said I could come over and play Duane’s guitar if I wanted, but I demured. I am not worthy!! Silly, but true.
OK right. Did any of them resurrect from the dead? Perhaps it is the quality and salvific function of Jesus’ miracles that sets him apart.
oops and moot
He was some very special guy. For a person never to have put anything in writing and have had the influence he has had. That is some very special achievement.
felix—what are you saying specifically…what is this word salvific???