Judgement

I have begun wondering, what makes something important? What makes something beautiful, aesthetically pleasing… what makes a person smart or stupid, right or wrong. There doesn’t appear to be any reason for things to be considered what they are, or at least judged in one way as opposed to another way.

When I look at a flower, it is beautiful, but why? What exactly does beautiful mean? How do I associate the aesthetic properties of an object to the definition of beautiful. Obviously I must know the definition of beautiful to be able to call something beautiful. And if something is beautiful to most all people then there must be a universal judging system, right? I guess that is what spawns debates between the right or wrong decision on going to Iraq, and any other controversy.

But knowing that I can say one thing is more x than another thing must mean that there is a universal for that judgement and hence a definition, but how do I call something beautiful without knowing why? without actually knowing what makes somehting beautiful? If you can apply it to that, then what else can you apply it to? What constitutes anything? On what do we base judgements of any form whatsoever?

i was going to make my own topic on this except about dislikes but this is the same thing anyway.

what makes us dislike anything? why do people bother passing judgement? why can people have a serious intense and hurtful arguement over something as trivial as tattoos or something more general like outlook or way of acting. i mean people are always like “you need to be more aggressive/passive/conservative/liberal” but what the hell does it mean? does it even matter? and im not talking about the ideals that sit behind the beliefs. there are valid arguements to be found on either side but i mean in actions we judge and it seems to me anyway that the judgement itself holds more weight than the action. it doesnt matter how well you perform in life or how much you accomplish i think everyone knows that who you are is what everyone percieves you as. so what the hell method can we use to percieve righteously? i dont look at people with tattoos and say piece of art on a persons body. i look i compare it to whats a valid standard in my head and then judge. i dont watch movies or read books or listen to music and take it for what it is i compare and if its not close enough to what i know then its bad or atleast ill acknowledge a bias. i dont hang out with people and think that the people are just being themselves i put them into perspective of what my standards are but how do you know your standards are valid or even make sense?

in an arguement its so easy to get people caught up in the complexity and stupidity of making these judgements yet everyone does it and will probably always do it. you can expose everyone as frauds in their opinions yet by doing so you make it impossible to judge them.

i think fitting in is the only reason we have conversation. we have no depth in our conversations. its just over recycled nonsense that in the end really doesnt make any sense at all. we like music to fit into cliques. we judge movies to make points not on a standardized system of thought. we criticize peoples way of life to out manuever each other for dominance or sex or whatever. to a point i feel like most of philosophy is this. just wasted conversation.

anyone agree?

#-o

In coming to terms with ones own existence it is obvious that not all are created equal and even individuals belonging to the same species, race, nationality, and family group display a difference between each other- not only on a purely physical level [height, weight, strength, speed] but on a mental one as well [intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, logic] - as to make the very notion of egalitarianism, a naïve idealists dream of a possible perfect utopia. Only the very optimistic amongst us still holds on to this antiquated idea of human parity and most recognize that nature is about progress through inequality, even though we may agree that a supposed facade of equality, under the rule of law, is necessary for civilization to proceed without conflict.
{Some would say that the mental characteristics of a person, I mention above, are just another aspect of their physical being, but that is a topic for another time and I will not deal with materialism or human duality here.}

It is easy to just explain mental inequality as just being an expression of a qualitative variation of intelligence or knowledge but that is a simplistic interpretation that does not take into account all the aspects of mental processes that participate in creating judgment and wisdom.

I am sure many of us know many “smart” people with many diplomas and labels of heightened intellectualism whom nevertheless seem to fall into childish errors or that behave in immature, irresponsible ways on such a consistent, predictable manner as to make us wonder how this is possible at all. Also the disparity of opinion between people of like mental ability and similar general experiences, coming from common cultural and social backgrounds raises the question as to how comparable minds can posses such diversely opposed views and perceptions. It is reasonable to assume that minds with relatively equal abilities using logic and having access to the same general information would come to common answers and a broad unanimity should be possible.

At first glance this phenomenon can be understood by taking into consideration the distinction of perspective by which each individual perceives reality. Since self is the only thing we can ever know for certain-if that- all other perceptions become a matter of subjective interpretation based on genetic predisposition and environmental infections. Logic itself becomes malleable in areas where experience based knowledge is non-existing or feeble such as when dealing with abstract ideas.

But what does perspective really mean and what are its effects on human judgment and opinion?

This is a question that if answered would shed light into the human psyche, explain the diversity of opinion in the world and enable us to deduce which opinion is more respectable, worthy of further consideration, objective and which is superficial, naïve, subjective and most probably erroneous. This is important, in my view, because we as mortal beings have so little time to formulate opinions; we cannot afford to waste it chasing after impossibilities or diverting our attentions to theories that are baseless and improbable except in instances where we wish to practice our imaginations.
{Important, that is, only for those interested in finding truth/reality and not for those just looking for comfort and safety to escape into and then scrambling to find justifications for doing so]

The quality of an opinion is not only the product of intelligence utilizing knowledge but an end result of a series of interlocking, interdependent psychological characteristics of the human animal and the effects of the psyche and environment, it exist in, upon it.

Intelligence is unquestionably vital and knowledge/information is essential in forming correct assumptions, but equally critical is an individuals personal experiences that shape judgment [first hand knowledge] and the fortitude of character [intellectual courage] to deal with many of the perceptions we may be exposed to and accept them.
The level we rise to in the categories of intelligence, knowledge, experience and courage- either through genetic chance or personal effort- sets up a level of awareness called wisdom which is the base on which judgment rests.

In generally encapsulating my position thus far I have deduced that:
INTELLIGENCE fed on KNOWLEDGE prejudiced by EXPERIENCE and COURAGE creates a mental disposition called WISDOM which gives birth to JUDGMENT which expresses itself through OPINIONS.

It would be helpful to analyze each of these pieces of our mental puzzle separately in order to understand them better and explain how one supports and influences the other.

			INTELLIGENCE

Intelligence is a term most often used to refer to the minds analytical ability and its overall talent to deduce or induce effectively, given the information at its disposal.
It is a tool of reasoning which requires knowledge to reason by and experience to form logical rules and standards in order to measure reality with.

But intelligence alone is not enough to come to any correct conclusions unless it has access to dependable information through the senses or through indirect accounts and if it manages to maintain its clarity by avoiding the corruptive influences of emotion and ego that often divert its energies and cloud its focus.

Like a sculptors knife intelligence can facilitate an artist’s work with its sharpness but is not enough, in and of itself, to give rise to great art unless handled with a keen eye, a creative imagination, talent and a subtle hand.

This most precious of all human weapons has been often misconstrued and misidentified as being merely an accumulation of knowledge and the memorization and regurgitation of ideas. Ironically intelligence becomes more pronounced and important where there is an absence of knowledge and where information is shady and weak. It is in ignorance that it reveals its real power and displays how it has enabled man to become a dominating life form on Earth.

			KNOWLEDGE

It is said that real knowledge is impossible and that all we have is sensual interpretations of presumably external, ephemeral phenomenon of which we can never be completely certain of. Despite this, these sensual events are all we possess -other than the awareness of self- and a first absolute assumption of a priori knowledge is a necessity if any further progress can be attempted.

The problems of perception are many and furthermore the weakness of our senses, even in comparison to other living beings, is well known to most of us, but the requirement of these sensual events, for the mind to formulate opinion, is unquestionable and fundamental.

Man attempts to circumvent this starting problem of uncertainty by utilizing the process of elimination through a comparison of sensual interpretations by different individuals, in diverse environments coming from a multitude of cultural backgrounds. This plurality of views on a single subject manages to filter out the majority of falsehood and subjectivity but does not eliminate it totally. Individual, social/religious, gender based, historical, racial contaminations may be eliminated in this manner but our species prejudices remain until we discover another intelligent species willing to give us another perspective to test our own.

Since certainty is virtually impossible as to what is real and what unreal we can, at the very least, achieve through empiricism a position of relative certainty within a reasonable constant doubt.

There are presumably two types of knowledge: a priori and a posteriori but more importantly knowledge is only as dependable as the source it comes from. If sensual experience based knowledge is questionable then knowledge that has come through second or third party experiences and accounts is much more so.
If intelligence is a sculptor’s knife or chisel then knowledge is his clay or rock.

				EXPERIENCE

Some would say that experience is another term for knowledge and so must be included as just a sensual perception of events, but I will deal with experience here from a purely psychological perspective and show how a richness or poverty of first-hand experience based knowledge influences judgment.

It is, in my opinion, a human unfortunate trait that most individual minds learn primarily from personal mistakes and successes and not so much from another’s. No matter how many second-hand examples we are given or third-hand accounts we are exposed to, a human mind cannot understand an experience as fully or as deeply as when it goes through it itself.

This inability to empathically learn through third party experiences makes experience itself fundamental in the development of character and consequently judgment, since it determines a person’s general outlook on existence and creates a history from which strength and confidence can be drawn. Furthermore the types of experiences a mind is exposed to during its lifetime and especially during the early years, affects the overall quality of the mind and shapes the perspective from which it perceives.

For example, a person that has gone through negative, life threatening, traumatic experiences will be prone to be overly pessimistic, depressive, bitter and cynical while a mind lacking any such comparative negative experiences will tend to be naïve, superficial, overly-optimistic, demanding, selfish, arrogant and self-centered. A man that has never tasted defeat will assume he cannot be defeated and will exhibit the arrogance of one that has never been humbled. A man living a sheltered privileged life will undoubtedly remain an intellectual adolescent full of insecurities and expectations. [Here is a symptom that reveals the ailment of western civilization]

How, if and to what extent an experience affects judgment and character is somewhat determined by the individuals strength of character and ability to cope with diversity which is something that is mostly inherited.

				COURAGE

Unavoidably human intelligence is guided and infected with emotion and ego. Our predispositions to a phenomenon due to past events and genetic history influence our general perception of it. If our overall perception is positive we will be inclined to be more open to it whereas if negative we will try to deny, explain it away or ignore it.
Similarly ego influences judgment by placing selfish concerns and personal perceptions on intellectual pedestals. [This is one of the reasons we are unable to learn through second party experiences].

A healthy ego will always perceive self as superior and the other as inferior even if it will at times admit to some inferiorities and inadequacies in order to appear to itself and to others as fair, objective, humble and reasonable [social indoctrination].

More often than not the need for self acceptance is interpreted by the insecure ego as self-love [love is always blind to truth] which justifies an unearned egotism and arrogance.
What is needed here is the ability to extricate oneself from perception thusly eliminating the control of both ego and emotion on judgment. This of course is almost humanly impossible to do completely- no matter how fervently eastern philosophies claim to be able to- but the degree of selflessness we achieve in formulating opinion determines our accuracy.
The first and most important ingredient in extricating oneself from the subject being evaluated is courage; it is the sum of the strength of character and intellectual honesty that enables the mind to accept as true the perceptions that are detrimental to it and to accept the limits and weaknesses by first acknowledging their existence.
Self awareness and self-acceptance is the first stage towards a general full awareness; this is only possible through the admittance of ones failings and strengths with no exaggeration either way.

Courage is just as important as intelligence and knowledge in creating sound judgment. It makes it possible to perceive what is, as much as is humanly possible, without being thwarted by what we wish there to be or what we hope there is.

Intellectual honesty through courage is often overlooked when assessing the ingredients of good judgment; it is the one thing that can turn an intellectual into just another babbling fool adorned with diplomas and titles of achievement but acting only as a surrogate mouthpiece for old ideas, either afraid to challenge preconception and institutions or unable to go beyond the work of others.

			CONCLUSION

Intelligence, knowledge, experience and courage are interlocked, mutual dependant aspects of what we term wisdom. This predisposition to possibility without succumbing to imagination and instinct allows the mind to be open to new hypothesis without wasting time on improbable, illogical, delusional supposition.

Wisdom focuses the human mind upon probability and eliminates the thinning of human energies on infinite possibility; it does not deny or exterminate any theory but evaluates importance and widens the level of perspective multiple views.
Through this process human judgment is shaped and its accuracy is determined by how high or low we measure-up on the scales of intelligence, knowledge, experience and courage.

The opinions that spring out from our judgment are, inevitably, ones whose consequences we must live with. Whether we run from truth/reality or ignore it is irrelevant; we cannot escape it. No religion, mythology, philosophy or ideology can protect us forever from reality, they can only postpone our suffering or placate its horrible effects by inebriating us or anesthetising our sensual perceptions. The only one real way to deal with truth and reality is to face it.

How accurate our opinions are is relevant in the amount of negatives we are exposed to in the course of our lifetime. How often we are disappointed or surprised by reality; how often we blame others for our own failings and try to escape into fantasy is a good way to measure how reliable our judgment is.
At first the price of awareness may be one we are unwilling to pay and the negativity and loss of stability, comfort and ego may be terrifying to contemplate but through its acceptance real strategies can be formulated to overcome the negatives.

The power of self-awareness and acceptance of reality as it appears will always lead to long lasting contentment in the end if it is utilized correctly.

“You gotta go through hell to get to heaven” as the song says.

whats your favorite piece of music and why?

im not saying that youre not right. im just saying that a logical approach doesnt apply to this. it never works because socially people are predisposed to think certain things. i gurantee you i can find a style of music that people enjoy that you dont enjoy. i gurantee that youll have absolutely no reason to favor one style over the other.

when it comes to art there is no reason for us to be making it. it doesnt feed it doesnt shelter. it provides us with a form of entertainment one that is less healthy than sports or studying. the only benefit it has is to satisfy a desire to create or express which is also done in conversation in mostly the same way. conversation isnt just about making points and figuring things out practically. a lot of it is about expressing and releasing tension which has more or less no purpose. its in these moments i dont understand the purpose of what people say.

ill give you an example.

if im to go to come home from work after having a bad day and im talking to my girlfriend about how im pissed off at how someone said something stupid and insulting there is no point. i can express my frustration simply by saying… this sucks explain what happened and drop it. i would have communicated the message there would be a mutual understanding of the frustration and then the sweet sweet healing can begin. but people dont do that. they dwell and they try to justify why things happened and figure out what went wrong or why someone said what and account for a million factors that are just impossible to measure. say someone insulted a tattoo i had. they called it shallow or something. id go through a process of trying to prove to myself its not shallow that the person has a biased opinion obviously that it was unjust think of possible responses evaluate the relationship with the person and then judge back. the conclusion? i made a stupid judgement. one that makes absolutely no sense has no logical support and in the end doesnt even matter. but now when i enter the next encounter with this person i have this predisposed idea in my head which could be in fact totally wrong. so whats the logical thing to do? dont judge ask why the person said what they said. you go and ask “why do you think my tattoo is shallow?” the response would be along the lines of well it has no depth according to my measurements it has an artistic style i dont appreciate its composition isnt well thought out plus i was having a bad day i felt like speaking my mind and i dont like tattoos because of my background. you know in your head there are billions of other factors but you look at the situation and naturally you want to defend yourself but how do you do it logically? well i like this piece of artwork and im more open minded? it doesnt work. you have to have a why and you cant because taste is based on nothing. the whole conversation logically and as far as purpose and educational value is a waste of time.

I agree with Satyr, but I would say that my personal experiences pre-dispose me to agreeing with him. Likewise, opposing beliefs are based in individual perception and experience. Hence, all of our judgments are really just interpretations.

I think an interesting point has been raised about music. But aren’t there universal standards for good and bad music? I am yet to meet someone who relaxes to the sounds of a police car siren.

yea but not all music is about relaxation. its all about expression.

i agree with satyr too. i know thats the process of thought but i dont know how to apply it to these situations.

i know my response is messy but i wanted it to be because thats exactly how it appears in my head. but i had a summary of what i was thinking in my head last night but i forgot it so ill try to remember.

i kinda feel like in a conversation where most of the time things are moving too fast for people to use their judgement skills that people ignore rationality. but then i feel like even if theyre to go back and analyze they are most likely going to miss something.

then when it comes to methods of expression i feel like any form of interpretation is going to be flawed because expression is supposed to be responded to with empathy. how can someone insult when theyre expressing an emotion?

then there is drawing the line between emotions and ideas. i think part of me is lost here but another part is lost in the other two paragraphs.

I think we have to understand what emotions are. You seem to think that emotions lack rationality, but I believe that they are chock full of motivation and that they possess a reasoning of their own. Anywho, I think that emotions are a good thing. They keep us on our toes and alert us to the salient, important things in life.

double post blah

im tight on time so i have to keep it short. ill go over it again if you need more.

i think interpretation and response or judgement of expression is what lacks rationality.emotions are fine and understandable in themselves. but when people try to explain o im feeling this people know what they mean but their responses and conversation afterwards are idiotic most of the time. i think talk is cheap. in the end the purpose is a social battle for subliminal means.

.

A good starting point would be to go without the things you find important , like food , sex , T.v , football , alchohol , tobacco , and see how you go from there .

Life is so quick , just ask anyone who is,nt young anymore , that its best I think to just know certain things are beautiful and enjoy them , without the need to know why , thousands of years have seen thousands of people try to answer the same questions , even technology has,nt helped . But at least if you engage with life , and love it , you,ll have a feeling of satisfaction

.

I cannot say that I have a particular favorite type of music or a particular favorite piece.
My tastes depend on my mood.

In general I prefer melodic pieces with a good verse.
I despise contrived, fake songs meant to earn a buck.

You can always tell when a piece is honest and from the heart.

Some of my favorites are:
Secret Garden – Bruce Springsteen, My Way – Frank Sinatra, Cecilia – Simon and Garfunkel, Crimson and Clover – By whoever, The World I know – Collective Soul, Silent Lucidity – QueensReich, You say nothing at all – Alison Kraus, Santana – Smooth, Dust in the Wind – Kansas, Yesterday – Beatles, You’re so Vain – Carly Simon, Send in the Clowns – Judy Colins, Leaving on a Jet plane – Peter, Paul & Mary, The Dance – Garth Brooks, Nothing else Matters – Metalica, Memory – Streisand, It’s Been a while – Staind, The Rose – Bette Midler, Carmina Burana – whomever, Building a Mystery – McLaughlin, Scarborough Fair – Simon & Garfunkel, Sundown – Gordon Lightfoot, Come as you Are – Nirvana, Orange Crush – REM, Lithium – Nirvana, Suite Madam Blue – STYX, Unforgiven – Metallica, When I’m gone – Three doors Down, My Immortal – Evanescence, A Criminal Mind – Gowan, Hurt – Johnny Cash, Don’t Fear the Reaper – Blue Oyster Cult, Kryptonite – Three Doors Down, Unloved – Jann Arden, Fields of Gold – Sting, Bonnie Swan – Loreena Mckenitt, Daniel – Elton John, Already Gone – Eagles, Baker Street – Rafferty, Beautiful Goodbye – Amanda Marshal, Brown eyed Girl – Van Morison, comfortably Numb – Pink Floyd, Crazy – Seal, Famous Blue Raincoat – Leonard Cohen, first time ever I saw your face – Roberta Flack, Go your own way – Fleetwood Mac, Losing my Religion – REM, Norwegian wood – Beatles, Spit me out – Collective Soul, Take it on the run – Reo Speedwagon, Vincent – McLean……just to name a few Anglophone ones.