KANT

That isn’t what Kant writes, rather:

Of course, you are treating Kant like he was a consequentialist weighing the effect of an action if everyone was to do it. This isn’t the case. In your case, whatever the action is, it wrongness is only known if it can be universalized.

It does not matter if you prevent it or not (unless preventing it is a duty), what matter is your maxim and its ability to pass Kant’s conditions.

Here is something I’ve always liked:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-judgment/#1.3.1

I also like the notion of the sublime, the categories of the mind and Kant’s critique of metaphysics.

Yeah, and what is even more strange is to hear this from someone who has a cross as an avatar and a quote from Jesus.

A statement like this is sure to appeal to those who want to be intelligent. Should one come along and say: “a word is the image of a nerve stimulus in a sound,” they are mocked for making it too simple.

Also, just one obvious tip when dealing with morality in general.

when someone says do not do X because it is immoral. Reply with, “why is it immoral?” At the end of the conversation, the person will say, ‘it is immoral because I said so’ or ‘it is immoral because i have power’. Morality is not based on reason. Kant is a valuable contributor to philosophy, but he’s now out of date.

Correct, it appeals to universal and absolute morality that is decipherable through reason.

I’m no Kantian but I realize that Kant is a very important figure. Kant, like all philosophers isn’t absolutely correct, is that what you meant by out of date?

When someone says:

…reply with, “and what if I do, asshole?”

And when someone posts the two quotes in unison, ask yourself why you evened joined ILP.

“And when someone posts the two quotes in unison, ask yourself why you evened joined ILP.”

I don’t know, why not? hahahahahah!!!

(also, you should watch your language)

NabberGnossi

Kant is too stupid to even see the mistake he’s making with his moral assertions. I dislike Kant because like Hegel, he writes unintelliblly. Why can’t he just admit he has nothing worthwhile to say?

kant says
that if I feel
like being a prick
but force myself
not to because
I know
it is my duty
to be kind and sweet
rather than a prick
that it is then and there
that morality is achieved,
not due
to the fact that
I am naturally kind and sweet
and don’t feel like being a prick.

I used to believe that
I needed to prove him wrong,
but have since changed my position,
not due to realizing that I am, in fact,
not naturally nice and sweet,
but because
morality…

who cares?

I am really not the right person to try to explain Rand, having only read one of her books, and having received only a summary of her Philosophy as she professed it to be, but her Ethical Egoism holds that what is reasonable is not universafiable, but it is a matter of self interest amongst individuals to such a degree that the only universal she holds is that two rational people will never disagree. She writes that “man is an end to himself” which sounds quasi Kantian, but she intends it in the context of individual choices (buy that new SUV, forget about the looming oil crisis) and there is no regard of duty stemming from one’s greater responisbilities. Your responsibility is to yourself (and it is here it can become Hedonistic) not to anything else.

While Rand employs Materialism (she calls it Objectivism) as being the world independent of man, man is able to perceive this world (empiricism) to know it truly. She steals Aristotle’s Law of Identity (she credits him for it) never mentions Hume, she then goes on to call her Empricism… Rationalism, makes no mention of Aristotle and his mean, and she probably hates Kant because (according to some) Kant managed to save both the Empiricism and Rationalism she would later go on to mangle.

From what I have read of Russell discussing Kant, he believes Kant failed to fully answer Hume, allowing for a certain degree of uncertainty to exist, which, from what I know about Russell, his analytical mind could not abide.

The reason any philosopher can feel secure in philosophizing about damn near anything is because of Kant. I am no expert but I doubt that any philosopher since has been capable of dealing with Hume, this is proven by the fact that precious few have even tried (well that and Kant’s response is reasonably sufficient… for most folks at least).

For me, the main problem with the ethical side of Kant is that his Categorical Imperative does not prevent an ideology from exercising its will against those it finds objectionable. For instance the acts of Nazi Germany against the Jews fall well within his Imperative. In fact their universalizing propaganda could be seen as a logical extension of Kant.

Dunamis

p.s. GateControl, you make an excellent point about Hume.

What mistake is that? Belief in Reason and rationality? Let’s strike Plato into your “too stupid” category too. In fact, Descartes could go too.

Kant and Hegel are not the best writers but their thought is not the easiest to embody in language either. I don’t know about unintelligibly, that seems a bit drastic for two widely read philosophers. I agree they are difficult but quite worth it.

Kant has many worthwhile things to say, it is interesting that your responses don’t touch Kantian theory. Why don’t you focus in on one idea of Kant’s and demonstrate problems with it rather than calling him names?

PoR, its past your bedtime, skidadle. and get your mom to drive you to the library one day… read a book.

if i hear any more of ayn rand i am going to puke.
(to be honest i’m not sure why i feel this way about her, i’ve never touched her, or heard anything about her. but i’ve decided she is a spec of sand on the beach of time, so i’m done with her forthwith)

and i don’t especially like ethics, kants ethics, or any ethics, but i know enough everything said here against kantian ethics is complete garbage.

i bite my thumb at the lot of you, but especially you PoR

AND Dunamis… how can you say that fool, that his imperative would allow what hte nazis did? you think if hitler realized he had a jew way far up in the family tree he would kill himself? (refer to my comments on PoR, they now apply to you too)

What mistake is that? Belief in Reason and rationality? Let’s strike Plato into your “too stupid” category too. In fact, Descartes could go too.

Kant and Hegel are not the best writers but their thought is not the easiest to embody in language either. I don’t know about unintelligibly, that seems a bit drastic for two widely read philosophers. I agree they are difficult but quite worth it.

Kant has many worthwhile things to say, it is interesting that your responses don’t touch Kantian theory. Why don’t you focus in on one idea of Kant’s and demonstrate problems with it rather than calling him names?

Monooq

I am reporting you and gamer to the moderators.

None of you have given any bases for opinions. Especially Monooq who’s only good at hurling insults. Full of sound and fury and no substance. If you know what you are talking about, please refute me.

and who the hell is ‘her’? Mr Loner, should get a girl friend, seriously.

Mon.,

Nazi ethics say that he should.

And if he did commit suicide, would that make Nazism moral?

Dunamis

save your insults

dude, you are hilarious. i take back everything i said.

I gave you both first and second base. Third base and the home plate are up to you.

GCT

The only post you wrote, that is addressed to me is this,

“The reason any philosopher can feel secure in philosophizing about damn near anything is because of Kant. --(but people philosophized prior to Kant, right?)
I am no expert but I doubt that any philosopher since has been capable of dealing with Hume,–(maybe they can’t be bothered) this is proven by the fact that precious few have even tried (well that and Kant’s response is reasonably sufficient… for most folks at least).”

Have you read my refutation to Kant’s moral theory? What mistakes have I made?

PoR

You better watch out, nooqy, these guys might fart in your general direction.