Keep a Open Mind And Answer me this....(Evil, Good..)

I would like to try to create a serious topic about Evil. Lets not get into Religion first off. I am sure we have all heard the Adam and Eve theories and others. This Topic Is Just to find out what you think is evil and what’s not evil.

For Example, Killing. Now there are some that would say this is evil hands down. Yet Up to about a hundred years ago almost all men had killed at least once, It was part of the cycle of life. Although today are idea of death is a lot firmer.

If you then decided that even those acts were evil then what about a more personal experience? What If your mother/sister/wife/daughter were being rapped and they pick up the rapiers gun and kill him. Law says its self-defense but the act is the same regardless. Your Loved one has killed, Are they now evil?

Perhaps all killing is evil then what about other things such as stealing or fighting. I have seen Several people mention these things in there posts yet I can not figure how Beating some up or taking a thing from a store are considered Evil.

What is Evil?

I feel raping is emotionally killing someone. And who has stable emotions after knowing they were raped by a pedophile, or sicko by thought?? Rape victims tend to feel stuff like “I’m stupid, horrible at life, ect. for letting this sicko get the upperhand.” So yes, to me; killing someone out of emotions for your loved one is ok to me (Lethal, but its out of love). Especially when you see them being raped physically, and emotionally.

Everyone wants to fight, or steal at some point in their life. Just some can’t control their anger. Some of these actions might be ridiculous, but theres always some that are explainable.

To broad. But in todays society. Evil is the wrongdoing of someone through an act of crime through these specially trained peoples eyes (Psychiatrists, laws, religions, ect. point of views). Who people believe have no morality in doing these crimes, even some in self-defence like Ron Artest (provoked heavily) are the ones considered evil to society. But are these people like Ron Artest for example; their race (African-Americans) crowding, walking, and expressing opinions when America set the standard for whats “Crazy, sane, ok, not, ect??” Not in my opinion, when I watch the movie “Gangs Of New York,” and see how one colored people with mainly one system of belief corrupted the system, to get away with what might be evil to some. And the system most psychiatrists use for labeling minoritys in America is very bland, and based on early 1900 to mid 1900’s whites personas/mentalitys.

If you know me physically, then you know how a real rape victim feels emotionally from reading my stuff, cus it’s a unintentional sense all of us as logical thinkers contain to ourselves.

Spirt, you present a damned rationale arguement regarding the mysteries of evil and good. I have thought deeply about the situations you have presented. Is a woman evil for killing the person who would be her rapist? Was robin hood wrong for stealin from the rich and giving to the poor?
Its really a tough thing to think about, but i think it all boils down to Intent.
The woman about to be raped did not have the intent to KILL the rapist but her intent was more driven to PROTECT herself from her rapist. If you think about it, the rapist killed himself. His malintent put another human in a bad situation then put himself in a bad situation too. The rapist created a situation of negativity around himself. Malintent does this often. But then you may say “well who defines what is negative and what is positive?”. well, If you want to speak as rationally as possible then lets speak of human limitation. Humans gear their ethical beliefs and general lifestyles in accordance ot their physical make-up. Put simply, we dont like pain cuz our skin sez ow. When the rapist decided to rape the woman he decided to create a negative (human) situation for both partys. The woman will feel pain and embarrassment and he will be chased by the authorities… all negative situations according to our bodys. Now that we agree (i hope) that our bodys dictate what is positive and negative, lets examine why the woman killed the rapist. Negativity was being forced onto her…humans NATURALLY want pleasure, not pain. The gun seemed the only way to alleviate the negativity only because it was an urgent situation and the gun was the fastest way to stop this negativity. Im sure if there was two choices for her to pick from…the gun or a red button that instantly put the rapist in jail, the button would probably be used 51% of the time because the womans INTENT is to protect herself…NOT to kill.
So basically, the rapist is the only evil in this situation. He created his own destiny. I could go on but i typed a lot and my fingers hurt =)…I think i covered enough though… i think. Please tell me your thoughts … thnx

Check out the post evil thoughts in the Esssay forum.

Personaly I think good and evil are only real in potential form. Let me try to clarify my meaning a bit, intent can be evil, or it can be good. Good and evil are the ideas by wich we define who we are, we see ourselves either good or bad. These ideas exist only in the human mind, and they are definitly biased, I mean how many of us really want to see ourselves as evil? Nope, its pretty much always the other guy who is evil.

Action is just action, it is niether good nor evil.

An example I bomb a building in the US killing hundreds of people, I do this because I believe that the US is the “great satan”, In my mind my intent is “good” I am serving my god. In my home country my peers, those who think as I do will consider me a martyr, a hero even perhaps?
In the US I will be seen as evil personified. Its just depends on your point of view do you see?

Evil/good is strictly a moral concept, so really you’re asking (like so many others) to define morals. See other threads that discuss morals for an answer.

First I would like to express my COMPLETE adoration for this site, its amazing. And secondly I apologize for my lack of grammar AND linguistic skill =),

    I completeley understand the arguements Tmminionman2 and wildbill pose, and to be quite honest...I agree...to an extent. Sure sure, all things human are NON truth and mereley farts in the wind, right?  hmm, i think thats only a correct assumption to the universe...or super super intelligent aliens. why, you ask? well, is it wrong for a man to punch another man for no reason or with malintent? I would say , yes. This is why....A baby is born..the baby is born with very much the same human systems an adult has...limited but similiar. If you prick that beby with a needle it will cry. If you prick an adult with that same needle....maybe he or she may not cry but 51% of the time they wont like it. That is (in my humble opinion) the purest sensation of evil. Our brains did very little calculations to come up with this conclusion. Needle does damage to my home (brains home), therefore that needle is evil and i want no part of it.
  I think we can take that situation and use it in a braoder scale. If i punch a man i dont like because he's wearing a shirt that said "I hate philosophy", I believe I am wrong because I created pain for another human being for a very BAD reason. The negativity he created around me was NOT powerful enough to created (or potentially create) any physical damage on my person, but I PUNCHED the dude anyway. I created EVIL (or pain) for his body for a bad bad reason. 
 I guess im trying to say that there is a "SET" evil that us AS HUMANS "KNOW" which is pain. We strive for pleasure and shy away from pain, correct? We should only create pain to others when someone trys to force their negativity (which can evolve to physical damage) onto us. If i punched the other man because he was about to punch me then i am not evil. I was merely protecting my body from what it considers "EVIL". His malintent makes him evil because he wanted to force PAIN (BAD) onto me for no good reason. 

thnx for listening, id love to hear your take on it. -BRIO

I consider evil to be a real thing, but I think of it as a category of actions, as opposed to some “force” or its own. I would also think of it as a way to describe the overall character of individuals that habitually perform such actions.

So then the question is, which actions are to be considered evil and why? I think the concept that killing is inherently evil is an oversimplification that comes out of the fact that we have such a strong aversion to it. It’s a good thing to want to minimize, but I don’t think killing itself is good or evil - it simply is. Like so many other things, it seems to me that the reason why we are killing is central to whether or not the action is good or evil.

Lying is the same thing. It’s generally good to get a child thinking that lying is bad, but when one becomes an adult, one must be capable of more in depth moral deliberation. As it turns out, lying too can be a good deed under certain circumstances. It depends on why you’re lying, what you’re lying about, and to whom you’re lying - a similar situation to the killing.

So, in reality, it isn’t the actions as a broad category that can be called good or evil usually. More often it is the motivation and ultimate goals behind those actions. I think when we take actions that cause harm and suffering to others for selfish reasons, for reasons of domination, or for reasons that violate their individual rights, we do evil. There are indeed some actions which are “inherently” evil, but that’s only because there would never be a case where such would be done that wouldn’t meet the qualifications of my last sentence.

Of course, such a breif explanation can always be nitpicked and refined, but that’s the general perspective from which I look at evil.

as taoists point out, witout evil their would be no good. now that doesnt nessisarly mean humans have to be evil towards each other…

the man who herts the other man is not evil, after all FREE WILL DOESNT exist. he just is, for one reason or another.

Hi, No Spirt. Just curious, not trying to pick a fight. By taking religion out of the picture, doesn’t your question presuppose there’s no objective definitions of good and evil? Any response you get, it seems to me, will necessarily be subjective if we eliminate a possible source of absolute objectivity (God). Which is fine as far as it goes. I was just wondering.

Hi, this is in response to jerrys statement regarding the lack of absolution due to a universe with no GOD…Idunno…i feel to be absolutely rationale we have to remenber that we are only human. THE OBJECTIVE “TRUTH” lies within the human race and our physilology. Do humans speak about flapping their arms and flying? naw, because that is outside the human limitation. If we speak of GOD then we must be on par with the dude and that is an impossibilty. So when we diuscuss evil and good…lets stick with human limitation rather than go out on some super human tangent.

what do you guys think? -BRIO

If thats right then our laws might have other peoples views of whats evil and good intergrated into them, like say for example religion and school. Theres Catholic Schools, and then theres a Public School System. Some of our laws, and judges get their personal life about how they feel about that person into their role in the world (of course never say it outloud, but might send one to jail, and another to freedom). Whereas we complain about religion (peoples opinions basically) that it helps give children corrupt views on life.

i’d like to raise a question on the issue of killing being evil. personally, i think it’s always evil, though sometimes necessary or useful, but would you consider killing hitler to be evil? he’s usually considered one of the most evil men ever, so is killing him evil?

Well then that clarifies it. The conversation presupposes that the question of good and evil is purely subjective. Again, I was just wondering. Hmm. Seems pretty unresolvable then. We really have nothing to use as a standard, do we?

The reason I wished to leave religion out of a subject about evil is because it is such a widespread and touchy subject. One must remember there are more then one religion and thus more then one belief. By trying to argue the Ten Commandments or the Law Of Equal Exchange you are upsetting/confusing one group or another. I myself wish to know the basis of evil and not the strongest proof of ones god.

In all my research of the subject I find The Standers of evil truly varies between selective groups. Although I do see were religion might be a necessary factor in a later and deeper dissection of evil. But I would like for the time being to stay blinded to this factor and talk about the many others at our disposal. We Will return to this if we can not find a non-religious answer.

As for the next step of this desiccation I believe I should Point out the flaws in your theories. I may not truly believe everything I am arguing and I only do so to find truth. For when only one side is told then no one truly learns anything. Also I use rape and murder only because they are the strongest grudge crimes by most countries laws.

One of you said that Evil was pain at least I believe that was your argument, So If one was to kill A child in its sleep using a non-painful source such as pills. That would not be evil? Or perhaps if one was amune to pain (A rare but real thing) then could a man like Hitler do what ever he wanted to their body with out it being evil?

Another Said Intent and in truth this is a reasonable Argument. But If I intended to help my mothers bills by killing her mooching husband or Intend simply to have a son by Rapping Random women then my Intent is not evil only the acts which I do to achieve my intent. So in truth can you truly say my Intent was not evil, if I told you had I had a little red button that gave me a son I wouldn’t have Raped them. That my Intent was not to harm the woman only my desire to pass on my jeans?

Another said good and evil are only how we see are self’s and change from person to person. Since I believe this is true I would like some else to try to argue against it. Evil Is Simply an Option like prettiness And Thus has no true Substance. Some see blondes as pretty others see red heads same as some see stealing as wrong well others see it as okay. It is hard to talk about this one with out starting a hole new topic so I will end this one here…

Well it just seems to me like we skipped a step in the discussion, that’s all. I was wondering if the question, “Is it possible that there are objective definitions of good and evil to be found?” should have been addressed before all the subjective arguments got thrown at you.

I’ll check back later…

No Spirt:

There is a rational solution for every one of those dilemmas which does not need to be called “good” or “evil” to be apparant. But they are far off in the distance.

Killing as an act of offense is universally incorrect. No killing is justified unless it is for a medical vegetable who’s family has collectively agreed to let die.

Every example you give me of a killing, I can show you how a society could exists without these criminal acts.

Abortion isn’t necessary.
Pathology (criminality) isn’t necessary.
War isn’t necessary.
Genocide isn’t necessary.

On and on…

You throw me a situation and I’ll fix it for you. One by one.

you have an option to hurt me or not, and both choices will end up affecting you the same way. one is good one is bad. i call that substance, even though its an option.

the thing that makes good and evil objectively identifiable is the fact that a harmonious society simply creates more happiness than one where everybody steals and hurts eachother. you learn what causes pain and happiness from your society. for example (i think im straying, deal with it), if you live in an african tribe, then for some reason, somebody decided that various painful body modifications are holy. this belief leads to you wanting the body mod, you want to hurt yourself in order to cause your own happiness. the african mans happiness will be caused by that action due to his experience with the world, therefore that action directed at him is ‘good’. it would piss me off, therefore that action, at me, is ‘evil’

like detrop says, throw me a situation and ill define exactly what somebody did or thought wrong or differently and ill tell you exactly who was wrong and how to fix it. i guess the point of this discussion would be to define what the general terms are so that laws can be made, but i think we all know the general terms, theyre just too simple to accept, since we see so many problems that seem to negate the idea.

the general definition of morality is: if it makes all people happy in a balanced, long term way, ie if it makes you efficiently and permanently as happy as you can possibly be, without hurting others more than you are helped, then its good. if it purposely gets in the way of this, then its evil. the only moral authority that exists is that little feeling we get in our head, endorphins. if we understand that other people have endorphins and we can cause or prevent them from making the person happy, and we know that if all peope release as much endorphins as possible, the world is better, then bam theres your morality. i see absolutely zero problems defining morality.

i think what these threads should be dedicated to is not defining general terms, but rather coming up with examples that mess with the terms i just defined. ‘the golden irony’ was a perfect example of my favorite kind of thread. philosophical rambling with general terms leads to misinterpretations of words. responding to examples is much less subject to the negative effects of such misinterpretations.

oooh man how to make this real simple…

Pain is gods way of showing you that you F…ed up…that you made a mistake. That you did something inappropriate…or that there is something of wich you are not yet aware.

It is not evil, it one of the ways your creator is using his creation, trying to lead you to yourself and to him…

Maybe

i didnt see that coming at all! even though i predicted it!

my definition of evil: “You F ed up, you are not doing what god made this universe for. or youre doing something that is not the most efficient, mututally beneficial thing for all humanity according to the shape of the universe” or “causing pain on purpose when you know that it clearly outweighs the pleasure gained”

whats yours?