Alright, Im an agnostic who acts as an atheist, so no religous morals will sway me on this one.
I have been reading several posts whose points were based on equality and kindness of others. It seems just stupid to me for atheists, who have no gods to tell them to follow the golden rule, would be “nice” to their enemies for any reason other then kissing up to them or trying to make christians like them. Other then that, why do it?
Your path seems clear- Don’t be kind to others. Isn’t it just that simple? Why even ask this question?
-And yes, I’m making a point here.
Regardless of one’s religious beliefs or lack there of, I think kindness just simply makes you feel good. I’ve made no real attempt here to analyze that feeling, sometimes so much of what I feel originates out of distortion- it’s hard to tell where the paths were drawn from anymore.
Kindness is one of those things necessary for a healthy soul. If you are truly kind you’re not doing it to manipulate or convert- if that is your motive, you’ve failed to begin with.
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ii) Don’t just ask questions. Bring something to the discussion.
Asking “WOAH…LIKE…COULD WE BE LIKE…IN THE MATRIX???” does not make you a philosopher. Honestly. Asking questions is great, as long as you have studied to some extent the topic that you are talking about. Have the decency to go and read some philosophy before asking questions that any old schmoe could ask. There’s no need to try and look cleverer than you actually are, this isn’t a contest. We’re here to educate and be educated.
-Imp
I know the rules, i dont get how asking for good reasons we should be kind to others, why we should follow the golden rule when we dont have anyone telling us to is a “are we in the matrix” question.
And yes, Im trying to bring something to the discussion, and this is where most of my time spent reading philosophy is spent, selfishness. yes, any old schmoe could ask this question, but few do, and almost none get good awnsers from anyone but humanists, satanists, and the like. from the awnsers i get from them, there is NO reason we shouldent put ourselvs first, and only, but most of the people here dont seem to agree, and id like to know why.
Ha ha- yeah, I would have thought the same- I never claim to know anything about philosophy, but it’s just funny- I always wonder about the threads I find myself posting in “up there”. You’re right Imp.
Kindness is an indulgence, whos benifits come in the form of a warm fuzzy feeling of satisfaction.
Kindness is just another form of selfishness.
I agree totally, which is kind of what I meant about a “healthy soul”- but then the question is why does it feel so good? If I may regress into my hippie half, it 's like sending out a vibration that resonates and is reflected back at a greater wavelength- it’s not just about expressed gratitude either, it’s a “knowing” of that gratitude even if you’re not around to receive it.
-Imp
This reminds me of an incident that happened a long time ago. A truly great spiritual teacher had a young student who asked if he could introduce her mother to him. A visit was arranged
As it turned out she was an influential person in the community. She spoke to him of her responsibilites in the secular sense, her reputation, and how she cared about people so much.
He listened and finally nodded approvingly and said to the effect: Yes I know what you mean by responsibility; I have 82 wives. She became uncomfortable and finally left. She returned a week later and said that up till that moment she hadn’t realized that her efforts were really for her own self importance and thanked him for that insight.
While I agree that kindness is most often for appearance sake or to prove something to yourself, a real human being would be able to give for the sake of another.
First point: What is kindness? Doing unto those you meet as you would have them do unto you. I think this means being honest to the universal Man. That is, we all have the dignity of a rational being, and cannot treat others as less than ourselves without acting irrationally.
Second point: Selfishness. According to my favorite philosophers, everyone acts for their own happiness. But it seems to me that the way we relate to others in the effort to achieve happiness may be judged ethical or non-ethical.
Third point: Further on human spiritual health. It is healthier in most cases to relate to others, and those are the guidelines for dealing with others.
Yours cordially,
my real name,
mostly harmless
Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought that the golden rule was “treat other the way you wish to be treated.” So be kind inorder for people to be kind to you.
EZ$
Obviously the principles of kindness, fairness and equality are as valid to secular humanists as they are to religious people- probably more so. Most adherents to the major religions can content themselves that they’ll be rewared while their foes will recieve their comeuppance in the afterlife. Not so for atheists- if this is the only world we’ll ever have, we can’t wait for justice in Heaven. We have to make it here.
To call kindness simple selfishness is to greatly oversimplify things, but if you must, that works, too. It’s obvious that unless you can enforce your will on everyone else, kindness is needed to grease the gears. Ultimately, I don’t believe all kindness is calculated- humans are social animals with innate behaviors. If we all have aggression and cruelty within us, it’s just as certain that we all have the traits of empathy and compassion as well. Okay, except for sociopaths, and possibly IRS employees.
There isn’t enough goodies to fill up everybody’s large appetite, so we have to struggle and strive, like a bunch of kids fighting over a bag of candies. Selfishness is defined trough this life long action of human competition.
Kindness is basically a self-excerted restriction on the appetite, out of consideration for others (those who can’t get what they want, so turning into monks, don’t count here). Animals survive because the parents would compete not only for themselves, but also for their offersprings. This is the origin of kindness.
The sphere of kindness extends to non-blood relatives, when social bonds form. The origin of such bonds for us, lies in the corperative hunting of our hairy ancestors - there the pramitive social bonds were formed based upon survival. As our society develops and strengthens, not everything is about survival anymore. So the nature of kindness gets complicated as more kinds of social bonds occur.
There, the origins of morality according to Nietzsche. Defining the properties of kindness and selfishness for modern man, is a never-ending task for socialogists. The only effective approach is oferred by Nietzsche: historical and scientific.
If there are volumes written about the subject (and i dont mean people who accept the basics fo this moral code and tweak a few deatails to their liking) but examine the moral code so many follow and find it to be good, id love your reccomendations. until then, ill listen to anyone here who has such an opinion.
OK, now to the point: everyone here who says that being kind to others heals your soul, or rewards you with a warm fuzzy feeling, or something to that extent: I have never felt that in my life. Maybe im just a jerk, or a freak, or something, but when i try to give to charity, or help out the poor people i know, i just get annoyed at the use of my time and cash.
Borramakot,
Maybe if you can just look into the usefullness of “kindness” and why it is rational to act with kindness, than to act with meanness or cruelty, you’ll see it’s really more than just warm fuzzy feeling felt by many who have been kind. There is more rational explanation why we should act with kindness. Some of the posters here have already given the reasons: they are more than just feeling, actually they are rational, reasonable, usefull, beneficial gesture.
If you must wait for god, or some authority figure, to tell you to be kind (or what to do) because etc, etc, etc, then perhaps, you haven’t fully taken advantage of your rational, intelligent capacity to understand a situation. If you really think about it, “kindness”—in its truest sense—is the attitude we adapt when we have fully understood a problem or a situation. Until then, we remain apathetic, cruel, mean, indifferent individuals.
Good theory, doesnt explain about helping poor people youve never met, or anyone outside your social circle for that matter. I totally understand being nice to friends and family, people you like and need. I guess i should refine my question: why be kind to people you dont know, or dont like?
Explain please, maybe im slow, but that doesnt make much sense to me
We do not need to personally know the people we should help. For example, children suffering from the effects of mercury in some parts of Asia need support in the form of medical intervention, funds, information. This is an act of kindness in which we do not have to personally know who these children are. Now so what? Well, we learn something about their plight and bring it home here. We learn about how the environment can cause suffering to people, how it may affect us as well, and how we could learn from the situation, while intervening. What intervention can achieve if it is us who needed it.
Now, you asked: why be kind to people you don’t like? And my question is, how is it that you don’t like them? What got you into that situation where you hate people? Again, a rational, critical eye would lead to an answer of—because I never fully understood the origin of my hate.