Kissing -- how much how fast?

Back in my parents’ day, the way that an unmarried couple expressed their affection was with at most a kiss on the lips or the cheek. Well, my parents did that, I don’t know about the rest of the world in the 70s-80s. Maybe you have to go back to my grandparents.

But if you look at movies today, simple affectionate kisses like that are rarely depicted. If you like someone and want to kiss them, frenching is your only option. Just pecking them would be weird. In fact, you should probably makeout if you really like the person.

How do we feel about this cultural shift? Is it better that unmarried couples are being more intimate? Or do people today go too fast because they think they have to jump from zero to makeout? Or does it matter at all?

Oh god, do I feel old now, Darlin child, a chaste kiss is never out of style, it promises so many things and yet says that the kisser has pride and gentle self esteem. Frenching is not the best way to kiss when you first meet. It was not then and it is not now, unless you want the person in your pants quickly.
Set a new trend if you feel the trend is heavy makeout try the vestal aproach.
Let the guy earn the right. Uh oh, I am going all maternal protective I better let someone else take over I may screw this one up. But, the above still stands as correct.

I would say that the make-out ritual is as old as tooth-brushing. To say that it is a modern development is rather silly, don’t you think? I mean, each generation believes that they have discovered sex, when it has been going on forever and ever.

The only thing that changes is how we portray these acts in the media and whether or not discussing them constitutes ‘polite’ conversation.

I don’t mean to say that making out is new. I just feel that the media portrays romance in a rushed way nowadays. Movies and TV shows imply that a real, intimate romance involves frenching, making out, sex, etc. all before marriage. If you limited yourself to more “chaste” kisses and waited to get married before you went further, you would be weird. Not passionate enough. You wouldn’t know if you were “sexually compatible” (as though sexual compatibility were a separate issue from forming an honest, open relationship, which can be done before marriage).

But with modern developments like the Pill and safe, legal, (rare?) abortion, why wait to get physically intimate? If you take the proper precautions it’s safe and fun. So what if some people use premarital sex to feign intimacy while avoiding the commitment real intimacy would entail. We can hardly blame premarital sex for their mistake. Right?

I think you are grossly underestimating the importance of a healthy sex life in a relationship. A sex life that sometimes involves certain activities thay may not before everyone. If those needs aren’t satisfied, the relationship will not work.

Also, I view the current trends in Divorce as a two-edged sword. On the one hand, we have more broken families and the fallout that causes (emotional, financial, ect.) but on the other hand, we have fewer people who are individually stuck in unhappy situations.
Right now we are a little out of balance, focusing more on the individual than the community; however, it was previously out of balance regarding the relative happiness of the sexes. Give it time and the pendulum will re-find a pleasant equilibrium.

That, and Kriswest said, a chaste kiss is never out of style.

I once dated a woman that would start every kiss with her mouth wide open. I felt like a mother bird about to vomit a meal down my chick’s gullet.

I like a firm ground for the initial kiss and work my way into the more open mouthed variety, if it comes to that. With most matters of passion it’s better to create a slow burn. If one starts out with the most intense passion, then where can it go?

I think that both men and women get impressed if they “turned on” their partner by starting out slow and end up getting the other excited. To start out excited means that you were excited before you got there or are excited about anything. However, to become excited over time by your partner means that they exerted their seductive power over you (or did they, ha ha!) and they will be impressed by that.

That was my seduction tip for the day.

Starting with gentle lip action, as a precursor to the more aggressive open mouthed tongue action, is the best way to go.
After that one must move away from the mouth……

Kissing should be like a mouth massage before it becomes a feeding frenzy.

A girl I knew once, held her lips so rigid that I could never get into it that much.

I happen to agree with all of your observations and the likely problems that they cause. Would you care to elaborate, give me a little more to think about? The portrayal of ‘life’ by media is one of my favourite topics and I’d like to read more of your views on this…

“Back in the day” romance was for the sake of marriage, marriage was for the sake of bearing and raising children, and a couple’s community closely supervised and influenced all three activities. Of course there were exceptions, but this was the dominant socially sanctioned theme.

Now we have swung to the opposite extreme, where romance is for sex, sex is for fun, and all three are for the individual isolated from family and community. This new ideology, our sexual revolution, is powerfully reinforced through movies, TV, books, etc. These cultural experiences shape the perceptions, desires, and fantasies of high school and college age young people. Those perceptions are reinforced in their social interactions at parties and whatnot. What the movies often don’t depict is that contraceptives fail, STDs spread, partners lie and conceal their motives, and the results can send lives careening in directions they never wanted. But we worship sex so much as the standard of intimacy that those risks don’t seem to matter.

Another effect of mass-market sex saturation is that people who want to put sex off, particularly women, are in a bad ‘economic’ situation. What’s the incentive for a guy to stick around and commit to one girl when putting out is the cultural order of the day? And if putting out is the order of the day, where do stable relationships, commitments, and openness to children fit in? You’ll find them hard to achieve even if you wanted them, since the dominant culturally sanctioned behavior is serial contraceptive monogamy.

Honestly, I’m not sure how much of the above is “my” opinion and how much is left over from my Catholic upbringing. The Church says that we have divorced sex from procreation and that is psychologically and socially harmful… but are they right? Is it so bad to have a few flings before you settle down, so long as everyone involved understands that that’s what they are? Are we okay with sex as an innocent day at the playhouse?

Janet Smith is someone who has written on the Catholic side of this dispute, and this is a cute little polemic from a more liberal standpoint. I find much to like and dislike in both of these papers.

My personal feeling is that physical intimacy that leads to arousal and sex is for people who are either committed enough to be open to raising a kid together, or are in agreement that the sex is just for fun and are taking contraceptives and are prepared for the possibility of needing an abortion. If a couple does not talk it out and place themselves in one of these categories, they should not be having sex. But the media don’t represent such talks. They’re a little too honest for romantic fantasy. The romantic thing is to be overwhelmed by attraction and dive into as much intimacy as quickly as possible.

Isn’t there such a thing as deliberate, thoughtful romance, where intense love and careful reason coincide?

Mostly what scares me about the US today (dunno about other countries) is the out-of-wedlock birthrate and the rate of divorcing with kids. I’m not gonna say that these things necessarily mess up kids because I don’t know that much about it. But I feel we should be very concerned.