Last Ditch Effort?

09.13.06.1543

I’ve noticed an upsurge recently in the aggressive post-making of Club29. Why he has been doing this may possibly indicate an attempt to push harder with his proselytizing tactics as his softer methods in the past have yeilded no results whatsoever. From the most recent down:

The words of a skeptic
Something I’d like to know
Separation
Faith
What’s your view?

He does have some interesting methods, I must say. Is this perhaps a last ditch effort to win over the non-Christians of ILP into following his god?

Hopefully it is an effort to understand as opposed to that of a self-imposed missionary. Only time shall tell.

Absolutely sagesound. Didn’t you get the memo?

I’m not sure what I think about the guy. I think he’s giving logical arguments to his ‘defense’, which I believe he should be able to have right? I’m not sure what’s so wrong with it, it’s a religious forum, maybe I should be asking why you’re here sage?

to be more specific, what do you have against Christianity? If you want to talk about social issues, we can discuss, but other than that I don’t see why hope is bad? Do you not believe Ignorance is bliss? If you do, why are you here? What are you defending? What has an atheist or agnostic got to offer that a Christian would want? Shouldn’t the moral ethical excuse be you want to help me? What have you got to offer me?

If you haven’t got anything to offer, and I’m not hurting you, why then, if you don’t believe in God, are you attacking my beliefs?

Furthermore, if I’m winning you over, that’s you-- This is something I cannot do, I can only help you understand and defend.

Why don’t we ask what I think?

I’m going to tell you. Sage, and many of you, wouldn’t believe no matter what I said. If truth isn’t knowable, than I really don’t have a defense at all, and neither do you. I would believe however, that if we found the answer to the origin of life, you would then decide that truth does exist, and God doesn’t, you wouldn’t leave the possibility of God open any longer, just as you have already done in your heart.

Then why do you fight?

And? Our hearts are just that; our own.

I defend, because I do believe truth is knowable.

Exactly, you are given to make your free choice in your heart, so why then do you deny God for allowing this?

Why would/do you believe this?

I don’t believe God has anything to do with my heart or my mind. Therefore this topic does not touch me.

Sagesound,

It’s easy to attack christianity… there’s no threat of beheading. If you had “balls”, you’d do like Emilio Karim Dabul

He faces far more danger criticizing Islam, than you do criticizing christianity, even if you went to Phelps church. Phelps would hold up signs, telling you that fags go to hell. Mahmoud Ahmenijad, would string you up as an example for the rest of the secularists.

Your criticisms, against him “trying to convert” someone are also misplaced, if someone from here can be converted from there own beliefs that easily, they didn’t have very firm beliefs anyways.

Besides, better they become christian than muslim…

:evilfun:

I’m agnostic/ non religious and I believe the truth is transparent. We cover it with the opacities of religious belief, whether or not they have god.

Well said. I agree with you of the blinding realities of most religions. Yet, I am strangly drawn to understanding them all. Perhaps it is a bit of morbid fascination?

Because truth is undeniable, we use truth even when we don’t believe in it. But what truth are you asking?

Exactly, therefore don’t blame God for your own choices.

LOL i never have or will. May I ask where you believe I would blame God for my own actions?

Any in particular I suppose. But I guess we have gone down thos path before so I will not go down it.

You give arguments against God, and blame God, but yet you do not believe in God.

What’s good to you is relative isn’t it? So what’s God going to do about everyone’s relativisms? If you try and please everyone, you won’t please anyone when discussing relativisms.

I wouldn’t go down it either if I were you. :slight_smile:

Actually that is my reasoning for not believing in God. I am glad you have read into my mind and decided these things for me. Thanks!

I am not asking God to help me win a Golf game. But is it really good for rape? or murder of innocents? I think we can both agree that is a relative opinion for what we believe is not just.

Indeed your reality is the only one you see fit to understand. I have accepted that.

Well, it seems you are well on your way to a pre-emptive strike against that last ditch effort…

-Thirst

Let me ask you one question, Why is it that you can’t say the reason for not believing in God is Goodness?

I don’t believe in relativisms, so no, I believe it’s truth that it’s wrong to rape, and bad to murder the innocent, I have a foundation.

Why do you accept that? Shouldn’t you be uncertain.

Wow you are quite the misunderstanding one. I accept that as my subjective belief. Does it vary person to person? Yes. Therefore I cannot name it objective. But it is my PERSONAL belief. Is it a grand truth? I am not sure. :smiley:

Because most people as you said in another post only learn from tragedy. I fear you shall become one of them.

Grats.

09.14.06.1545

Actually I didn’t; don’t you just love keeping me in the dark about these things?? :lol: I’m actually suprised you made this thread your business Scythe. It was my interpretation that you were going to be ignoring me forever, but lo and behold, here you are, making this thread out to be yet another toilet for Islam. Except for this:

Good comment; I like it. While you’ve made a good point, it still brings up a counter-argument for Club like: “If he would realize that people have firm beliefs at ILP and would never be swayed, why bother in the first place?” It’s really simple when you think about it… He knew what he was getting into, so by default, he deserves to trip over every stump (in a manner of speaking).

So now… the main questions…

Okay… it’s perfectly fine to be unsure about yourself… go on.

You just said you were not sure… Hmm… Despite that, you think that you’re giving ‘logical arguments,’ which is strange because last I looked, logic does not bode well with religious dogma.

Well… it is a religious forum, but for more than one religion. I’m here to help you understand that fact. Afterall, if it wasn’t for more than one religion, it should have been labeled THE CHRISTIANITY FORUM!

Did I say I had something against Christianity? Doesn’t appear so. Hmm… (just checked) … nope! I do have something against you though.

Did I say hope is bad? Hmm… that’s two you’ve assumed wrongly… how unfortunate.

No, I don’t actually.

Now that is a definitive question! I am defending the freedom of thought; the choice one should have to discover “truth” as they may find it on their own accord and not by the ‘guidance’ or ‘word’ of another. I am against your attempts to make this forum into your private inquisition; asking people about their beliefs for the sole purpose of raising your own above theirs. It’s sickening! It’s almost as bad as the last few Muslim members we had on this site who ranted endlessly about Islam and how it’s the truth.

The aetheist or agnostic has nothing a Christian would want. If you are a Christian, that obviously means that you’ve found a truth that works for you and allows you to live comfortably with yourself and the world. In reverse, the Christian has nothing the aetheist or agnostic wants because they have already found a truth or viewpoint in life that they are comfortable with. The only help I want to give you is to be more mindful of others who do not share your personal beliefs.

Again, I’m not attacking your beliefs, just your method of communicating those beliefs. If you were a Muslim like the one’s we’ve had here before, I’d be giving you the same treatment. Oh yeah, btw… that’s assumption number three… tsk, tsk, tsk…

So, according to your interpretation, if I’m not affirming the existence of your god, I’m denying it completely?

:laughing:

-Thirst