While the Republics of the world
continue to elect lawyers with the gift of the gab
as representatives
and not put practical engineers in the driver’s seat
politics will remain endlessly divisive
and our infrastructures and economies
will continue to run downhill
I actually agree with you on this point. Unfortunately though, power attracts corruption, and the men who weasel and lie are the ones that get into power. A man who is incredibly intelligent and makes incredibly well thought out designs, unfortunately is typically lacking the skill set needed to convince men that he is worthy of a position of power. The question then becomes by what method can we possibly keep the people in power who deserve to be and who always work in the public interest?
By voting for men and women who present the most accomplished and creative resumes
in civic engineering and leadership skills
That would be my American Idol
The ideal leader
is an innovative civil engineer with plenty of on the job experience
who heads a successful engineering firm
understands the interconnectedness of national infrastructures in
Education
Agriculture
Housing
Transport
Communication
Energy
is not averse to mega-thinking
who grasps the concept of planet management
and its long-term ecological ramifications holistically
He must be a family man or woman with solid family values
successful children
proven affection for his/her fellows
and the ability to explain his/her long-term construction and economic agenda
clearly and succinctly to the nation
Such a man or woman gets my vote every time
A relevant quote that I’ve always loved:
“When a candidate for public office faces the voters he does not face men of sense; he faces a mob of men whose chief distinguishing mark is the fact that they are quite incapable of weighing ideas, or even of comprehending any save the most elemental — men whose whole thinking is done in terms of emotion, and whose dominant emotion is dread of what they cannot understand. So confronted, the candidate must either bark with the pack or be lost… All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” --H.L. Mencken, in the Baltimore Sun, 1920
Also, didn’t Plato once say that the best leader is one who does not wish to lead? I’m having trouble finding that one.
I agree
the ideal leader should be sought out the qualifications listed
and invited
He should only step forward on his own volition in an emergency situation
and offer his expertise
Yeah, unfortunately voting is a non-solution. Every election more and more people go to the polls. Every election it is “the most important election” and we must “vote or die” or other various slogans. And indeed, every election there are record numbers of people at the polls. And every election then things get steadily worse, not better. Assuming that voting actually has some effect at all, it is making things worse not better. Although, I do like to contend that it has no effect, and likely it is rigged. But whether it is rigged, or the voters are completely stupid does not concern me. What does concern me is that it does not solve a thing. So to try and do the same thing over and over again and expect different results is sheer stupidity.
I think that people like the idea of voting, because it is the idea that you can simply walk into a building, push a button, and make everything better. This is precisely why voting does not work, and is a non-solution. In order to make things better, it takes a combination of blood, sweat, and tears from the men and women who wish it to be better. There is no fairy god-mother to grant our wishes. We are all our own wish granters, like it or not. In the 2008 US elections about 150 million people went to the polls and voted. Each of these people wanted to see some kind of betterment of the country they live in. Imagine, if they had instead of going to the polls, gone to Washington instead to have a talk with those people in the pentagon. They could have gone there and told those bums to get out! They could have demanded real representation. They could have demanded peace. They could have demanded 100% hand counted paper ballots and no early cheating, uh I mean voting. They could have demanded the rescission of the patriot acts and all unconstitutional laws. They could have demanded that the immigration laws be enforced. They could have demanded tariffs on foreign products. They could have demanded a repeal of income taxes and wasteful government spending. They could have demanded smaller government. Any of those things. I don’t even care which. After having 150 million people march on Washington, regardless of who is in office, they would be very afraid of the people. When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.
So yes, it would be very nice to get a good statesman or woman into office to lead our country. But whoever he or she is, they must be willing to follow the will of the people and know that if they don’t they are out of there! No more war. No more tyranny. No more deficit spending. And for God’s sake, no more violating the constitution! That is how true security is achieved. It is the people that make up a country, not the politicians. Lets prove it to them! We as men and women are the ones who have the power to shape our country and the world how we please. We alone can make things run more efficiently, or make them crumble into dilapidation. It is up to us. There is no hero to save you. You must save yourselves. No rational intelligent individual who is smart and compassionate enough to lead the nation how you suggest would be willing to take that position the way it is now. First we must clear the way of corruption. For anybody who really did want to make a difference would simply be pressured to conform, and if that did not work would be assassinated. It is mass corruption that is our immediate battle. Once that is done, a real statesman will appear and lead us the way it should be…
Just to ask though Magnetman, if record numbers of people go to the polls every year and it changes nothing, how did you expect to vote such a person in? Have you ever noticed that no such person is even in the race, much less on the ballot? I think if you ever wish to have such a leader you will need to be more creative then voting. Activism is how we really change things. Voting is simply the mechanism put into place to give us the illusion of a freedom of choice, and then when things go sour blame us for making them that way. That is why I don’t vote. I refuse to vote so long as there are no candidates worth voting for and so long as the voting is rigged. Once those two things clear up I will gladly vote.
Who is that said
“A benevolent Dictator is the best kind of Government?”
Some economist if I recall
Right! And false truth is the highest form of knowledge. A seven sided triangle is the best shape. And A does not equal A.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
That is about the most trite adage ever coined
whoever did it is a total moron
and whoever bleats it …
There is no such thing as absolute power
hence no absolute corruption
If it were otherwise
the universe would have rotted the second it took birth
Does the word “benevolent” ring any bell?
It is how I guide my own family
I listen
but the final word is mine
or we would get nothing done
which is the sad state
of States
It is a figure of speech. You are taking it too literally. By “absolute” it is meant “the greatest degree allowable per the laws of nature”. In that sense, there is absolute power, and it does always corrupt. If you don’t agree, name one instance where there has been a benevolent totalitarian state. History is definitely on my side on this issue. And history always does repeat. Babylon, Rome, United States.
But mainly what I meant is that there is no such thing as a benevolent dictator. I don’t know why we have to repeat the same lessons over and over. History has already proven this. I know people want to be taken care of, but the simple fact of the matter is that we are men, nobody is going to take care of us, and we have to take care of ourselves. We think that just because we are higher life-forms everything should be easy, and there should not be any effort required to run our lives. I just got done posting about this, let me copy and paste:
"Nobody is going to stand up for the people and selflessly work in their interests to make their lives better. Only the people themselves can do that. It takes effort from each and every individual to make things better. Revolution is doing the same thing over and over again. “Meet the new boss, just the same as the old boss”. The point is to not have a boss. Be your own boss. Be bold and good things will come! Government should be subordinate to the people, not vice versa. “When the people fear the government there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Quit trying to shuck the responsibility of sustaining and caring for yourself onto that of a controlling authority. Be a man. Men take care of themselves and their families. They rely on no one to wipe their behinds or feed them. That is what children do. Everyone from being a child still harbors some desire to be taken care of like a child. They want everything to be guaranteed to go well for them. They want all pleasure and no suffering. From the time of ego development we begin to realize that it is beyond our power to insure such a thing. So then some of us reach for that loving compassion of the mother and father that insured our health and safety when we were younger. Of course mom and dad cannot be expected to take care of you indefinitely, so you reach out and find nothing but the state. The state, who reaches back with a sideways mischievous grin on its face saying “hush little baby, don’t say a word, momma’s gonna buy you a mockingbird” and promises you that you will be taken care of and everything will be okay if you just follow their orders and give them your money. But then you find that it is not only beyond the power of you and your parents to take care of you and insure your comfort, it is also beyond the state, who had ulterior motives from the get go and was just looking to improve its own comfort at your expense. When will we all learn that the nature of the universe is impermanence and uncertainty? Your comfort, your food, your water, your health, your job, your income, your housing, your life itself. None of it is guaranteed, was never guaranteed, and never will be guaranteed by anybody. We all run the same risk by living. The alternative is death. Security is only fully achieved by death. Me, I choose life. I choose to live my life, and say “to hell with the risk!”. If I suffer, so be it. I can take care of myself and I am a grown man. I need no nanny. I need no protection from other men. I will protect myself. I will provide for myself. I will take care of my own health. I will not let anyone control me or tell me what to do. I will not live for the sake of another man, nor will I ask him to live for mine!
People used to do that. Now we have been conditioned not to. But that does not make it right. When evil takes a majority it is still evil. If most of the world decided suicide meant life, it would still result in death. A=A. No pondering of why A=A and how it should be B will ever change that. A will always equal A, no matter how we wish it otherwise. There will always be tyranny. But tyranny comes from control. The more we allow others to control our lives, the more tyranny there will be. CONTROL YOURSELVES! THE STRONGEST AND MOST BENEVOLENT FORM OF CONTROL IS SELF-CONTROL! DO NOT BE WEAK! EXERT YOUR WILL UPON YOURSELF, NOT YOUR NEIGHBOR!"
Regarding the family, I do not have a problem with hierarchical authority. I have a problem with absolute authority. There is a difference. I am not an anarchist. I am a minarchist. I want just enough government to keep order. No more, no less. Other then that, people are responsible for themselves. If you get hurt, its your own dumb fault. If you harm a neighbor, you should be punished. If a neighbor harms you, they should be punished. If a country harms another nation, that nation has a right to retaliate. But I don’t even want an army, I want militias. A navy/airforce would be okay with the permission of the men and women who pay for and build such a force. Of course it would be entirely voluntary and non-compulsory. Eye for an eye. That is the most just system to date. After all, justice is balance, and the punishment should fit the crime. Imprisonment is a good penalty for a kidnapper, but not for a murderer.
Finally, I want a government that is accountable to the people for all of it’s actions. In a dictatorship, that is not possible. I want a government where each representative is accountable to a specific group of people no larger then 30,000. In this way, each representative is held to his or her actions by a specific group of people. If that representative stops representing their interests, then they should be held accountable. Period.
That’s all for now…
Obviously there are many views on this
but there is one view that has never changed
For the vast majority of mankind
for 2 million years and more
God is believed to be a benevolent dictator
those of us humble enough to Believe in Divine Design
we know one thing
Man may propose
but it is God who disposes
so in this leadership sense
ultimately the buck stops with Him
Dreamscaper: Ashoka, of India, was a benevolent ruler. Although the first half of his reign was a bloodthirsty rampage, once he converted to Buddism and non-violence he built great temples, promoted non-violence, and expanded education. King Louis the XIV and Queen Elizabeth I might also be considered benevolent dictators, although my history is rather rusty, to be honest.
I definitely agree with the idea that many in power are corrupted by it, but the absoluteness of your statement makes me uneasy. I might, instead, say Those who seek ‘absolute’ power are corrupted by it.
Magnetman: It is time for us to understand that while a god may have created the earth, it is man who rules it. Never in universally accepted history has any god’s influence been greater than that of man. The arguably biggest influence the gods have had is in religious violence and dispute, which is in fact started by men, not the gods themselves. This fact is particularly disturbing to those without a set religion because then it means that such violence was started by men in the defense of an idea. If gods exist, the only domain wherein they display their power any more is the afterlife. Which means it is up to man to have the final say on earth.
BUT, let me get to the real topic…
The true role of a government should be solely the representation of the interests of the people, and, in critical times, the ability to make the right decisions for the country and it’s people. Even if those decisions are unwelcome at first.
The first role of government, representation, is why politicians must be persuasive speakers/debaters. Politicians should act as representatives first and foremost, because in an ideal society (in my opinion) the only reason politicians are needed is because there are too many citizens to all be present and the time of decision making. The only reason politicians are there is because they are representing the interests and protecting the welfare of their voters, who could not make it to the meeting.
Unfortunately, the representative aspect of politics has turned from representing the people to representing mob-minded, charred husks of political theory known now as “political parties”.
The second role, critical decision making, is the more complicated role. A politician must be able to contradict the immediate wants of his people if it is not what will yield the best results farther down the line. Example: A politician must be able to vote for racial equality, even if his constituents do not want it, because he knows that farther down the line full racial equality will bring more prosperity than inequality. Note that first and foremost in his mind is still the welfare of his people and future prosperity, not personal opinion. While this role has more shades of gray and is open for discussion, I would say it boils down to one sentence. A politician must recognize the needs of his people before the wants of his people. And for this he must be versed in many areas, such as philosophy, law, and ethics.
Most politicians today take this second role as the right to govern based on their own personal beliefs, which is in my opinion one of the most heinous crimes of the politician. This results in the current elections, where voters are not asked to pick between highly-qualified candidates to represent them, but to pick which man (or woman) out of a line-up most closely echoes their own ideals and values. Because in the current political system this small, and often false, gesture is the only way the people can even hope to have their interests represented.
- In summary, my perfect ruler is a group of representatives.
- Each representative is there to recognize the needs and then the wants of his people.
- He does this by studying a wide variety of subjects, as I said before, like history, philosophy, sociology, ethics, and others.
- He surrounds himself with technical professionals (economists, engineers, etc.) who are unbiased and there to aid him.
- He is passionate about those he represents and will fight for their interests.
- He is progressive, and understands the young minds as well as the old.
- He does not have to be married or have children, because this is merely a societal value falsely attributed to success. Some people are happier without, or simply haven’t found the right one yet in their lives.
- He truly understands the under/counter culture, instead of simply viewing it as “depraved” and “immoral”. And will work with them, instead of trying to put them away.
- He is not spoiled by privilege.
- He is able to inspire the apathetic masses.
Yes, but God is a euphemism for “the universe”. So if you are saying that the universe dictates what happens in the universe, then I say yes, indeed! We are all part of the universe, but only the whole is the dictator. After all, your powers are limited to what is possible to do on this earth. The possibilities of the universe are infinite. Should men in all of their imperfection place themselves at the same level as God? That is what you are asking of this “benevolent dictator”. You are asking him to sit above all men and not only judge but dictate their lives. Something that the benevolent creator Himself does not do. The creator, in all of HIS wisdom decided to endow men with free will (and certain inalienable rights I might add) so that they can use it as they wish. Does this mean there will not be judgment? Of course it doesn’t. The purpose of free will is so that each man and woman can be judged upon their own merits by their own actions. Those who hinder free will hinder the will of God, and will be judged accordingly both on this earth and in heaven (a euphemism for ascension).
So punishing people for their misdeeds is one thing. But interfering with the free will of another man should be declared a sin. There are three main values that should be upheld for human kind to live together in harmony. These are truth, peace, and free will. In order to uphold these three values we also need justice.
You know Magnet Man, I am concerned for the earth quite a bit too. Nature is one of my higher powers. But I am not worried that we will ruin nature. I hate it every time they cut down an old growth tree, and it bothers me when they poison the water. But nature is much more powerful then man. If nature did not want us here, then we would not be here. If we blew the earth to bits and there were just asteroids floating in the air, nature would survive. Even more hardy then cockroaches, there are extremophiles which are single celled organisms that can live in intense heat or cold without oxygen or sunlight. They are almost impossible to kill. I believe these are the things that we evolved from. Except evolution was not accidental. It was planned. But my point is, all this save the planet stuff is missing the mark. The planet will be fine. The planet has taken a hell of a lot more then man kind can dish out. It is the people that will be totally fucked if they don’t shape up. The planet would flick us off like fleas if we became too much of a burden. There are numerous ways in which this could happen. Does that mean that we should not have respect for our environment and other life forms? No, we should have the utmost respect for them. By respecting them, we also respect ourselves. We are a part of nature. By killing off parts of nature, we kill off parts of ourselves. It is most unfortunate. Should we stop people from defiling the earth? The best that we can. But we shall not interfere with the free will of men and women on the planet in order to do so. If we were not meant to have free will, then we would not. Plain and simple. We are 100% meant to be free, and by interfering with that, you interfere with the work of God. Everything in the universe is the way it should be. Our fights and struggles are all supposed to happen. So is our evolution. I can feel it. Can’t you?
I do not view God as a separate entity
the egotistical concept of separation is a temporary self-delusion
a psychological ploy eventually to be discarded in the process of conscious evolution
God is Consciousness itself
Every atom enjoys a degree of God Consciousness
In mankind God-Consciousness has evolved to a supernatural degree of self-awareness
we are still a young specie
human consciousness is barely two million years
not that far removed from our ape and hominid stages
Currently we are in the Protestant teenage stage
of rebellious self-determination and individual idolatry
some few of us are ready for graduation into an adult stage
of increased social responsibility
One fine day
by Divine Design
full God-Consciousness will flower among us
it is for this latent compassionate capability
that I am willing to put trust in the benevolent dictatorship
of the more advanced souls living among us
God is far too compassionate to punish an ignorant child
All punishment is karma
i.e. self inflicted
it is human to err
for only therein lies the lesson
With the great brain that Nature evolved
comes great responsibilities
We have the power to blow this planet to pieces
and the freewill to do so if it dares us
Our specie is the fruit
of three billion years of evolution
we are God’s favorite sons and daughters
prodigals called to return to the estate
and steward it with all our God-given creative powers
He gave us a wild blossom
we present him with a scented rose
He have us a wild horse
we presented him with a thoroughbred
He gave us mud and stone
we built pyramids and cathedrals
our estate duties are plain
turn this planet into a cultivated garden of plenty
we already have the technology
all we need now is the collective will
good leadership
and the end of egotistical teenage arguments
about freewill
I agree about great responsibilities, and I like your analogy. But only consider this. When we become adults do we become more dependent, or less dependent? We leave the homes of our parents, and build lives for ourselves. In the past, it was somewhat necessary for there to be dictators and such. But as the human race grows older, now it is time to be adults and become independent. The irony in your statement is that you dislike independence, but then you want an independent dictator to rule us upon his whims. How can it be more independent then that? The will of one man overpowering the whole? If you want people to work together, the only way to accomplish such is through their own volition. Otherwise they are not working together but for or against a single dictator. There is a huge difference there. The fact is that any tyrant depends on his victims willingness to exert his tyranny. Some are willing, some are not. But it is their cooperation that he seeks. If we can learn to cooperate, then what do we need a dictator for? We can cooperate with each other, or we can cooperate with a single dictator. Which sounds more benevolent? You are trying to force something that cannot be forced. Cooperation can only be given freely by the will of each individual. Responsibility is something that is handled by adults. If we are to be responsible, we must be responsible as individuals. No more parents telling us to go to bed or we will be too tired for school. We have to put ourselves to bed and get up early to go to work all on our own.
Furthermore, assuming that there is one independent dictator that would rule well, what makes you think that his successor would be the same?
[quote=“akphil”]
Dreamscaper: Ashoka, of India, was a benevolent ruler. Although the first half of his reign was a bloodthirsty rampage, once he converted to Buddism and non-violence he built great temples, promoted non-violence, and expanded education. King Louis the XIV and Queen Elizabeth I might also be considered benevolent dictators, although my history is rather rusty, to be honest.
I definitely agree with the idea that many in power are corrupted by it, but the absoluteness of your statement makes me uneasy. I might, instead, say Those who seek ‘absolute’ power are corrupted by it.
That is not what I said. I said show me a benevolent totalitarianism. Interestingly enough this translated into “benevolent dictatorship” for you. Not all dictatorships are totalitarian. In fact, true totalitarianism is only recently possible this last century due to the advent of advanced technology. So I would agree that a modern day dictator by nature would be totalitarian. Especially considering that we have progressed long past the time when people would be happy under a dictatorship. Democracy is a genie that cannot be put back into the bottle no matter how much certain individuals wish it could be. So instead they corrupt it. And they do a good job of it.
Now what I DID say is that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The form of government is beside the point. Can you name me a benevolent police state?
The concept of a separate ego
was an essential first step in the creation of humanness
It gave God a witness to himself
and His Creation
it turned a greedy ape
into hunter who shared the kill
and thus allowed the individual ego to expand beyond the narrow needs of the self
and grow larger via benevolence in clan and national structures
Ego made the craftsman conscientious
and proud of his work
and the artist inspired by original creation
Man admires elegant design
so does God
pure randomness is pure chaos
the Universe is pure design
pure order
the random element is incidental
it is built into the Divine Design to allow for the element of ultimate surprise
but it does not really affect the day to day machinations of the Great Creation
[/quote]
As stated previously
the idea of two consciousnesses is a temporary state
freewill is simply a useful illusion
in the Absolute
there is only One Consciousness
You are Narcissus
enamored with your own reflection
Satori
is a bruised toe away
Zen saying
I am at mistake here for not clarifying the distinction
between man and the message
the message always was and always will be
family values
No dictator can be termed benevolent
if he or she violates any one of our core human values
Sharing ethic
chore-based work ethic
courage ethic
loving ethic
conscientious ethic
creative ethic
communication ethic
intellectual ethic
No self respecting person will follow any dictator for long who trespasses on core ethics
but will follow with full heart any leader who practices them
It would take only one generation of effort
under the leadership of a single benevolent engineering dictator
to put an end to endless squabbling over leadership
and to get this planet running on perpetual motion
after that concerted collective effort
led by a conductor who knows the score by heart
we can all retire and play golf 