Lessons on Causality

Why must it be an impossibility to Determinists that free-will cannot exist? Or, that it does not exist within them, and any attempt to be free, or ‘become’ free, is then a threat?

Isn’t the conclusion to Determinism, then, necessarily Nihilism? Does it not lead to Nietzsche? And what is the lesson there? That when all beliefs and gods are burned down, all systems of controls, that what remains? That you are still a slave to Fate, or, that you can create your own?

That’s the thing about freedom: you have a choice, to walk the comfortable path already laid-out for you, or to blaze one of your own.

The Determinist must claim, you cannot make one of your own, it is impossible (because it is impossible for me).

Nihilism:

“What is impossible for me, must be impossible for others, and if anybody tries to prove the impossible, then they must be smeared, ignored, defamed, or annihilated”

I guess Nihilists hate the Olympics… normally, most of humanity seeks out and is astonished by human Grandiosity and Magnificence.

However, these are not the values or virtues of the Determinists. Rather, spite and revenge are.

Revenge for being born to the wrong mother? That this life can never be good enough, because of all that was denied to you as an infant?

Right prom I get that, determinism doesn’t have to be theistic or anthropomorphic in any way, it can be strictly material, strictly psychic or spiritual, or anything between, same with freewill, it doesn’t have to be psychic or spiritual, it too can be material.
Myself, I’m pretty openminded about all this stuff, I think it can work either way.
So much of it is a matter of perspective.

I’m actually pretty openminded sociopolitically too, I think multiple sociopolitical perspectives and systems can often work, altho I have my preferences.
I’m more dogmatic about what I’m against than for.
I’m against the establishment, because of how dogmatic, oppressive and totalitarian it’s becoming, so even that too is a form of openmindedness in a roundabout way.

It seems to me that the Totalitarians who control Davos and the U.N. no longer tolerate the ideal of a ‘Free’ nation of peoples, or that such a nation is a threat to their agenda and plans for economy (complete global ownership).

From Advanced Freedom thread:

absolute order = one god…renamed universe.
There is no predetermination, …nobody claimed anything like that. None is required, since the consequences are the same.
There is always inevitability. Fate.
The individual could not have not done or thought or chosen what he did…he is innocent.

Will to Power is an external Will, an external power, which the individual is a representation of and a part of.
The individual finds absolution.
He is no longer responsible for anything because he doesn’t have a choice…choice is an illusion.
Natural selection does not select fitness, higher minds, intelligence, because there is no choice.
It is a ruse…a causal chain of chance…
If not god then luck…happenstance.

Doesn’t matter how it is conceptualized…the individual is absolved of responsibility. No matter what is chosen, it could not have not been chosen, after-the-fact. Things could not have turned out differently.
All was determined…looking back and in hindsight.

Predetermination requires, as Brian correctly says, a mind…and some deniers of free-will do in fact hold this position, though they may not openly admit it.
But predetermination is not necessary for the individual to find his desired absolution from responsibility, only the idea that things cannot have turned out differently.
Eternal Return takes the form of predetermination not requiring a mind.
The same individuals making the same choices eternally…no mind, absolute universal order. Cosmological totalitarianism…no telos…totality.

Right, they’re illiberals and monists, but they still have to wear the liberal and pluralist façade, for now, they’ll only ditch the façade after their Great Reset/NWO is complete, so I won’t call them liberals, they couldn’t be further from it.

There are still genuine liberals out there, many in fact, both classical liberals, and liberals who take some progressive stances, mostly on economics, but who’re essentially still liberal, like Glenn Greenwald, Johnathon Haidt and Naomi Wolf, but these people are rapidly being jettisoned by the establishment and lumped in with us “conspiracy theorists” (it’s gotten so bad that if you even question their conspiracy theories like Russia Gate or Jan 6th you’re the conspiracy theorist now, not them) and “white supremacists” (everything is white supremacy now, tuna on toast and egg salad is white supremacy) because they won’t go along with every, single iota of what the establishment pushes, and for that reason, the establishment, whether it’s the shitlibs on the ‘left’, or the neocons on the ‘right’, must be deposed.

We need new terms for these people, globalists is one of the better ones.

We oughtn’t call them liberals, it’s a disgrace and disservice to all the real liberals out there who do good work, the globalists are a travesty of liberalism.

Basically there’s 3 sorts of Liberals.

  1. Classical or Rightwing Liberals (fiscally: libertarian (leaning), socially: moderately conservative, or populist).
  2. Libertarians
  3. Leftwing Liberals (fiscally: moderately progressive, or populist, socially: libertarian (leaning).

And…
Nihilists, as I’ve said many times, must contradict themselves.
Brian, for example, was contradicting himself for years.
He was holding responsible the individuals that presumably sent him to jail, whereas he could not have not done what he did to be sent there.

So, he’s innocent…but they are guilty of miscarriage of justice, or corruption or self-cotnradictinos.
He needs to blame someone, something. like a universe, like order, like a singularity - god by any other name -for his own actions.
He chose nothing…literally…he was chosen, to do this or that, to say this or that to be this or that.
Sound familiar.

He’s discovering what has been chosen for him, what he’s been chosen to do. He’s like a stone on a mountain side…with no agency.
A victim of cosmic forces…causal chains binding him.

There’s a blindness to it, an inability to see what thyself is doing, a lack of self-consciousness.

Or worse, being self-conscious and lying about it. This is where the more corrupt lies begin to seep, to lie and convince thyself of an alternative reality, Nihilism.

The lie is never good enough, eventually Reality-itself must be annulled, because self-consciousness keeps popping up over, and over, and over.

It appears in dreams, or nightmares (if self-deceit is prevalent).

Brian, who are denying yourself to …us on the forum, or to yourself?

Who is being convinced exactly? A projection of guilt?

Causality
Cause = past, determined
Effect = present, being determined

No gap, a continuum.
Past is continuously made present, as presence, and experienced by conscious minds as appearance.
Presence is what we call dynamic existence - interactivity.

An individual organism is participating in the present, contributing to the determination of the future which will become a presence.
This participation does not require consciousness, as plants are willful, intentional, and have no brain, no mind - they are reactive. Their reactions continuous, and determined genetically, nevertheless participates in the circumstances that determine its future. Minimal will.
Higher organisms developed brains so as to override their genetic programming and react in real time more efficiently, more effectively.
They can prejudge, pre-empt, prepare…and they can train to react differently from how their impulses urge them to. Mind is a control for the body.
Its memories usurp the body’s genetic memories, DNA - or can do so to a degree equal to the brain’s dominance, its quality.

Impulsive people that cannot control themselves, feel as if they are possessed by an external will.
for example:
A priest that believes in piety in god, in goodness, may become aroused by a well-shaped adolescent…
His mind tells him this is wrong, but his body that this is right.

This conflict can become severe when mind is dominated by a nihilistic ideology/dogma which denounces or denies the body altogether or selectively.

There’s an inability to evaluate the circumstances and himself.
He cannot properly evaluate the probable consequences or underestimated other, or overestimates self.
Whatever the case may be the individual has not judged properly. Hasn’t accurately evaluated probabilities.

Insecure minds usually compensate by overestimating themselves. They believe they are smarter than the judge, or the psychologist and that he can manipulate his way out of any negative circumstance.
He fails to adapt…and this failure is what makes him unfit.

Human systems, in the west, usually shelter such unfitness, or most types of unfitness, but too many negative consequences and it will intervene to protect the collective.

If the evaluation of probabilities leads to an action despite them, then the individual will not complain…having accurately approximated the odds for negative consequences of his actions/choices.
You know the individual misjudged when he tries to accuse, blame his own error on others.
Notice how the persecutor erred, the judge…it’s always another’s fault. The individual cleanses himself of guilt, of shame, of responsibility, and is purified…remaining superior.
Disappointment in oneself is externalized. the other misunderstands.

See his positions on communism.
It’s not communism’s fault, it is the fault of those who applied it “wrongly”…who failed to understand it properly, completely, like he and Rosa do.

Presupposing some degree of free-will, properly defined as an expression of choice and not of absolutes.

Predestination is presumed, in many cases…if it consciously denied as ridiculous.
If individuals have no free-will to choose this and that, then all is predestined…the universe has chosen them to bring about the better, the superior, the correct effect. They are a universal effect.

It has been fated…the universe has determined that they will bring about the proper understanding and application of communism - they are its sacred means to its end.
Hope is faith, otherwise why would they fight exploitation when it has been determined that they be exploited? Exploitation is part of nature, after all.
How will they change this? Who will change this if they have no agency, no choice?

Naw bruh you’re still stuck at a level one comprehension of all this because of some kind of impenetrable block in your noggin.

Not having freewill does not absolve you of the consequences that follow the actions you have taken (free or not is irrelevant).

I am most certainly ‘responsible’ for being in a situation that allowed other unfree agents - the courts and its personnel - to express a nefarious form of control over me. None of them are ‘morally culpable’ for their deception because they couldn’t have done otherwise. BUT, there are also consequences for that deception, and whether or not they have freewill, they are still ‘responsible’ for being active agents in that deception.

As I’ve said before… there is no freewill here and no morality. Just a battle of wills… some smarter than others who happen not to be active agents in a contradiction. Those officials had no choice not to contradict themselves and deceive in their active practice of law… but they are still accountable as effects and suffer consequences as a result, just like me.

It must be that you are truly incapable of unattaching yourself from the erroneous preconceived notions you have as a result in the confusion you endure from believing in freewill.

There are no ‘victims’ because there are no ‘offenders’. One either displays some congruence between what they believe and what they practice, or they don’t. The courts did not, and there are corrective consequences for that. Just like there are consequences for being a disgusting cockroach. You get stepped on, and that’s not your fault. You just happen to end up being an ugly effect of the machine called nature.

Ah, so now it is about “morally culpable”. Typical postmodern…collectivising responsibility via morality.
So now it is about “whether or not they have free will”, because before it was “they have no free will”, or rather they do, whereas you don’t.
Free-will is not about morality.
I love how you slip in these words adjusting the idiocies of the past…hoping nobody will notice.

How could the courts display congruence when they had no choice, not to be incongruent?

You are thick, and that is why you placed yourself in this situation and are now trying to save face so as to retain your self-assesment that you are smart.
Smart is not enough.
Control is a factor of how intelligence becomes effective.
You lack willpower, and so you outsource will.

You continuously imply that you are the victim of a miscarriage of justice, then you deny you are a victim…so why you bitchin all the time?
You fucked up…placing yourself in a position to be abused by the system, if you were actually abused.
Your choices, based on your judgements, evaluations, placed you there.

I just have to accept that people have their own unique ways of understanding things that might not make a bit of sense to me. Like these strange ‘connections’ you make between this nihilism and religion and determinism and all that stuff. It’s an internal reverie in your head that is completely disconnected from reality. Like a word salad that can be shaken ten times and you’d still get the same unintelligible mess when you set the bowl down. But somehow you get the feeling of certainty and sense when these words run through your mainframe… and there’s nothing I can do about that.

Like your step son urwrong. I just have to accept that he’s incapable of getting this stuff. Silhouette knew this.

But you were never able to understand.

You accused me of using terms in ways you could not comprehend, when I explained to you why nihilism, the concept, is part of the nihilistic paradigm.
Though I’ve done my best to anchor my views - words I use - on the grounding of a shared world you fail or refused to follow…because you can’t be bothered, and you have a defensive reaction to anything that exposes your nature - a psychological block which you then project as the other’s misunderstanding, or inability to get it, like you do, and like Rosa does…or Nietzsche
But I don’t care…and so I give you the conclusions of a judgment that begins with proper definition of terms, like nihilism.

Elsewhere I get into how and why I think nihilism is a school of thought, a world view, an attitude, a reaction to reality, with multiple variants; a reaction to man’s emerging self-cosnciousness. A defensive reaction creating memes, i.e., ideologies, dogmas, to cope with being exposed to the body, and how it compares and relates to world and to other bodies.
Nihilism is psychological, and entirely linguistic.
Every nihilistic variant is to one degree or another anti-world, anti-life, anti-empiricism…antibody.

Take your denial of morality.
I’ve explained this a million times, so I’ll be brief…hoping some will visit KTS and read further, if they want to understand where I’m coming from and why.

If you define morality out of existence, supernaturally, ideologically with no referents to anything tangible, experienced, falsifiable, then you can easily negate it…like you and your buddies do.
But if you ground your use of the term “morality” to reality, to observable, tangible, physical actions, then it is real…not magical, not ideological, not an abstraction of an abstraction, not a word referring to more words.
Morality is about cooperative reproductive and survival strategies this is why it evolves among social species and, to a lesser extent, species adopting heterosexual replication.
It has to do with self-control…what you lack. Supressing parts of self so as to tolerate other.
Morality is most often used to refer to group dynamics and how the individual adapts, adjusts, to them - what you failed to do. you contradicted the moral norms of the group you participated within.

Morals = behaviours evolved to facilitate cooperative survival and reproductive strategies - involving self-repression that gradually become innate - the they are encoded as preferred dispositions, i.e., compassion, altruism, benevolence, tolerance, respect for others, rejection of incest, of paedophilia, of individual violence, of murder etc…
Ethics is something more…and I use ethics to contrast with morals to differentiate genetically evolved behaviours from memetically imposed ones - genes to memes.
Ethics - addendums, social rules using rewards punishments to be enforces. Ethics are necessary for social system that exceed natural limits of groups.
Mosaic laws are such addendums, i.e., socioeconomic and sexual restriction presented to the group as divine in origin, since they are not innate.

I think I may understand where Lori is coming from.
Why is the cosmos, the way it is?

Lori thinks order is (necessarily) less likely to exist in any given spacetime than chaos, both a priori, and empirically.

Like getting heads 50 times in a row is less likely than getting it approximately 50% of the time (altho if you flip a coin trillions of times maybe you’ll get heads 50 times in a row a few times).
Lori thinks order is always unlikely, and the exception, from a cosmic point of view, that it only seems likely, and the rule to us, because we are relatively ordered, and subsist in a relatively ordered part of the cosmos.
Conscious beings couldn’t exist in a relatively unordered part of the cosmos, because conscious beings are a kind of relative order, so we’re under the illusion the cosmos is fundamentally ordered.

He thinks it’s fundamentally chaos.
We can’t perceive the chaos so well, because our brains are programmed to find order.
Chaos is uninteresting, there’s nothing we can do with it, so our brains and senses are designed to largely overlook it, or, to be noticeable at all = order.
Chaos is absence, darkness, erratic, sparsity in this metaphysics.
Lori looks at all the darkness in the cosmos, which appears to be the majority of it, and says that’s what the cosmos largely consists of, all this presence, light, warmth and predictability, is the exception.

Lori, or Satyr, is a Greek, he thinks the Greeks got it right when they said chaos, Eris, is the mother of the cosmos, not an organizing father.
He thinks Heraclitus got it right, that masculine order must continually hold back feminine chaos, the dominant force in the cosmos, from breaching the walls or skins of civilization or organisms, that the Jews got it wrong, dead wrong, diametrically opposed to the truth.
You could say he’s a Discordian, but whereas most Discordians embrace the chaos (Dionysian), Lori tries to resist it (Apollonian).

Altho Lori generally respects science, he thinks the atomistic and deterministic metaphysics or worldview of many scientists is somewhat of a leftover, an artefact of Abrahamic thinking enlightenment philosophers weren’t fully able or willing to overcome, that science could be greatly improved upon by adopting a metaphysics essentially rooted in affectivity/chaos/effectivity instead.
He sees atomistic determinism, along with classical liberalism and Marxism, as sort of outgrowths or mutations of Abrahamic thinking, they didn’t truly dispense with it.

Fascinating stuff.