Lord calls the lowly...

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Lord Calls the Lowly

“The Lord usually calls the lowly rather than the mighty to act for Him.” - footnote for Judges 6:15, from Zondervan’s New American Standard Study
Bible.

Three examples: Gideon, Jacob, and Saul.

Gideon: “O Lord, how shall I deliver Israel? Behold, my family is the least in Manasseh, and I am the youngest in my father’s house.” (Judg. 6:15) God uses Gideon to defeat Midian, thereby delivering Israel.

Jacob (the younger son of Isaac): “And the older shall receive the younger.” (Gen 25:23) NASB footnote: “God’s people are the product not of natural or worldly development but of (God’s) sovereign intervention in the affairs of men.” Jacob, grandson of Abraham, is used by God to father the 12 heads of the tribes of Israel. NASB note: “God’s blessing on mankind” [ the “covenant promises (originally) made to Abraham” ] “would be fulfilled in and through Jacob and his offspring.”

Saul: “Am I not a Benjamite, of the smallest of the tribes of Israel, and my family the least of all the families of the tribe of Benjamin?” (1 Sam 9:21) God grants Israel’s request for a king through Saul, who delivers them from the Ammonites.

NASB footnote for 1 Sam 2:4-5, 8 “God often works contrary to natural expectations and brings about surprising reversals.” God “raises the poor”. He opens the wombs of the aged. The strongest person is of no strength compared to God, who gives strength to the weak. What man of wealth possesses more than God? - in that light, what man of wealth even possesses anything, relative to God’s possession of everything? The whole universe is a teaching tool, God’s classroom.

– p. 339 “The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict” (Nelson, 1999) by Josh McDowell.

Against the elitism of Gnosticism:

God loves those who are incapable of understanding (we are all ignorant relative to Him – even those who received direct revelation)… to Him, they (the ignorant) are not hopeless. Gnosis is like the food group you should avoid, ‘cause it leads to heart disease and what-not, except gnosis leads to spiritual disease. It is all the unhealthy additives that work against health, though they may taste good (like the fruit on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil). There are healthy alternatives that also taste good, so why ingest what will only muck up your system?

All you need to know (be aware of) in order to be saved is God’s plan of salvation. Anything over and above that is going “too far” and putting words in God’s mouth – misrepresenting God.

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– p. 339 “The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict” (Nelson, 1999) by Josh McDowell.

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I thought God gave everyone a fair chance.
Why do the lowly get chosen as opposed to the… elevated/mighty?
Why poor over rich?
Why slave over master?
Aren’t they the same inside?
Aren’t they just people?

I’ll tell you why…
Judaism and Christianity evolved into great religions of the slave.
They were created for the slave (the masses) not the master.
I agree with some of Nietzsche’s Genealogy of Morals and the clear development of, what he called, slave-morality.

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I have to ask the same question really.
If anything, this lack of equality shows, to me at least, that christianity is an invention of the downtrodden masses to find meaning rather than something of divine decree.

Why WOULD the all-loving all-powerful god discriminate?

I thought the underlying premise of Christianity was accepting Jesus as your savior? Can a rich man not accept Jesus? Does money somehow block acceptance? Faith? I don’t see how the quantity of your earthly possessions would be an important factor or why it would even distinguish people.

Same question goes to the people who lived and died in countries where christianity had not yet spread, having never ‘heard the word’ - are they then condemned to hell? Why? Because they were born in a different place?

I know these are questions that have been raised, argued, counter-argued, ad nauseum - but the fact that we can still ask them and not receive satisfactory answers indicates to me that there’s definitely something lacking.

As Bane said, aren’t we all just people?

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Hello, Bane. God does give everyone a fair chance. But those who are strong/mighty or wise in their own estimation – how would using them to act for God teach people that He gives everyone a fair chance? Actually, He has used those who are wise in their own eyes – Balaam, for example. But “usually” – He uses the lowly.

Those who are strong/mighty or wise in their own estimation (who think they stand on their own) are actually the slaves, really. Their emphasis on power (especially those who lord it over subordinates) in the face of weakness is a classic case of overcompensating, and their inability to rely on God (due to a delusion of independence, though everything in this universe thrives when interdependent) incapacitates them from truly being free and transcending – which is only possible in right relationship with God and eachother (transcending master-slave).

Nietzsche was close, but he kept missing the point (the eye of the needle) like two opposing magnets which swerve away from eachother when close, because he (the camel) tried to arrive there without God.

See “Overcoming and Yeats’ ‘Lapis Lazuli’” for a similar discussion. This theme pops up in other of my threads, as well – I leave it up to you to scan for it.

Some homework, if you’re interested: Matt 18:3; 19:14, 27-30; 20:1-16, 25-28; Mark 10:13-15, 28-31, 36-45; Acts 20:17-38; Rom 8:17; 12:8; 1 Thess 5:12; 1 Pet 2:2; 1 Tim 5:17; Ex 22:21-27; Eph 6:9; Col 4:1; Jer 22:3; Ezek 22:6-7, 12.

Take care.

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I think the parable is an enthymeme – What does someone have to do in order to get rich? What does someone have to do to maintain that wealth? Can these things be done while remaining true to the teachings of Jesus?

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Hello Anzha and Xunzian – Being rich is not bad. It is valuing your blessings over what really matters that prevents unity with God. It is failing to see where those blessings came from, and what the true reward is. If you know what really matters, everything you own goes toward (is used for) what really matters. If what really matters is everything you own – you’ve missed the point (the eye of the needle).

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– Anzha

As in the case of everyone who has heard the Word – we leave such matters (whether or not a person is ‘saved’) up to God. We can guess, due to His being love – that He does not condemn them for not making a choice with which they were never presented. But, they were presented with the choice to love and not to love, as far as they understood love – and that is how He will see them. You should read “Eternity in Their Hearts” by Don Richardson – he prepares the hearts of those who have not yet heard the Word. He is not left without witness.

Take care.

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Yup.

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NO. The bible certainly makes it clear that God favors the lowly, poor, weak, slaves, etc. “How would using the powerful/rich/strong teach people that God gives everyone a fair chance?”… Well… for starters, it sounds like he is not giving the strong/rich/enabled a fair chance to begin with. He is clearly discriminating.

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Of course we can dig up examples of people that God used that were powerful. Paul for example was a powerful Jew, seeking out and killing Christians until God chose to reveal shit to him and he changed his name (Saul to Paul) and became a great evangelist. But that is not what we are debating.

The issue is that God clearly discriminates and favors the lowly, weak, poor, etc. Nietzsche spotted it. It is flipped on its head so that the slaves can have power over their masters. “You’d better humble yourselves masters, because God favors us!”

It is a psychological ploy to get at the masters
and give power to the slaves (masses).
It is quite ingenious.
But it is a ploy.

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You guys have to check this out and post something!
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=1860790

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Yes, but time and time again in the bible, the ‘rich’ are presented as unworthy. You yourself call them slaves…why is that? It doesn’t make sense to me, if “God is love” why he would exclude someone from heaven because they happen to have money on earth?

Is it not possible to have wealth, and thank God for that wealth daily?
Is it not possible to be rich, but share that wealth with those in need, live a moral and righteous life, believing in Jesus and whatnot?

I ask this only because I have met many people who were both extremely wealthy and extremely devout, but the bible says essentially that it is nearly impossible for a rich man to enter heaven. Over and over those with wealth are presented as villainous. I want to know why is that? Being a smart manager of your properties and business is somehow mutually exclusive with believing and accepting God as your savior? How exactly?

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Examples, please.

Icthus has provided an enormous amount of Biblical backing for his claims. Where are yours, Bane?

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And furthermore, if God will not aide the poor, the helpless and the lowly, then who will?

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Because it is a religion of the slave (the masses).
The slaves are empowered and gain power over their masters.
Read Nietzsche Beyond Good and Evil and the Genealogy of Morals.

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How about the first fucking quote on this thread!
“The Lord usually calls the lowly rather than the mighty to act for Him.”

My biblical backing is the very verses Icthus is quoting!
I am in agreement with him that the bible clearly states that God favors the weak.

There is a shit load more verses Oranges!

Jesus said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:24. Similar verses are in Mark 10:25 and Luke 18:25).

Icthus started out claiming that the lowly are favored. He posted verses supporting it! Are you claiming the bible does not state that God favors the lowly/poor/weak, etc.?
What kind of bowl are you smoking out of?

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I know Bane-bane. I have read them. I am asking perhaps more clearly, why does the bible present those with wealth as villainous, if it is not because god favors the lowly and has stacked the odds in their favor. In other words, I agree with you completely on this, I even quoted the same verse you did XD.

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Right. And I have answered this question.

They say it is because God favors them, but it is very clear that, by imposing slave-morality, the weak/poor/meek gain a psychological edge of power over the Dionysian ethics/morality of the strong/rich/powerful/rulers in stating that God favors the weak/poor/meek etc.

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As I said earlier, it is not wealth itself with which God is displeased. Wealth can be, and often is, a blessing from God to those who respond to Him.

It is when you make wealth your priority – when wealth is the end, rather than the means. The end should be love. Wealth should be a means to love.

When wealth is the end, the means you use to acquire it, inevitably get in the way of the true end (love). That’s where the villainy happens. Not wealth itself – but its place on your list of priorities.

If knowing God (love) is your ultimate priority, everything else falls in place.

The Bible does not say it is impossible – but hard – for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Keep reading. It says with man it seems impossible, but all things are possible with God. But let me tell ya – a little “breaking” occurs first. I am an example of one who has been broken… out of slavery.

“I have selected this day to address you because it is the anniversary of my emancipation . . . Just ten years ago this beautiful September morning yon bright sun beheld me a slave-a poor, degraded chattel-trembling at the sound of your voice, lamenting that I was a man … When yet but a child about six years old I imbibed the determination to run away. The very first mental effort that I now remember on my part, was an attempt to solve the mystery, Why am I a slave. When I saw a slave driver whip a slave woman … and heard her piteous cries, I went away into the corner of the fence, wept and pondered over the mystery … I resolved that I would someday run away. The morality of the act, I dispose as follows: I am myself; you are yourself; we are two distinct persons. What you are, I am. I am not by nature bound to you nor you to me. … In leaving you I took nothing but what belonged to me …” – Frederick Douglas, in a letter to his former master, written in 1848.

It is hard to believe, when you read things like this that are real – not just idea, not just theory – but real – that philosophies like that of Nietzsche (which influenced Hitler, though some might say he was grossly misguided) ever take root in hearts and minds. Is the slave driver more free than the slave? Is a will to power less enslaving than being overpowered? Frederick Douglas became free – but did his former master remain enslaved? Surrendering to a will to power… makes one a slave to power.

Master and slave are one in God’s eyes. The master borrows from God, and God raises up all those who humbly admit to the truth – relative to Him, they are powerless, so it is a good thing the goal is not power, that the goal is love.