Lord of the Flies

[Ierrellus]

@jerkey

@Ierrellus

The topic here is whether or not the preadolescent boys, stranded on an island reverted to savagery because of social indoctrination or because of something innate within themselves. Perhaps it could be both?

More likely, de conditioning of rules of civilization. It’s not that the innate animal within comes to the fore, rather, that changing conditions change the rules of the game.

The children had no knowledge of pre-civilized conditions or behavior, they only reacted to how societal norms degressed as an accompaniment to the brute forces of nature. Their behavior signified a parallel world of natural violence.

The Rousseau project was an attempt to give credence to a wished for society, to counterbalance that violence. This was the age of hope, in the sustenance of an ideal world. I doubt Rousseau saw the noble savage as anything but a useful attempt to counter Hobbes’.

Good post. Do you think Hobbes was right? Golding seemed to think so.

[Arminius]

@Ierrellus

@jerkey

@Ierrellus

The topic here is whether or not the preadolescent boys, stranded on an island reverted to savagery because of social indoctrination or because of something innate within themselves. Perhaps it could be both?

More likely, de conditioning of rules of civilization. It’s not that the innate animal within comes to the fore, rather, that changing conditions change the rules of the game.

The children had no knowledge of pre-civilized conditions or behavior, they only reacted to how societal norms degressed as an accompaniment to the brute forces of nature. Their behavior signified a parallel world of natural violence.

The Rousseau project was an attempt to give credence to a wished for society, to counterbalance that violence. This was the age of hope, in the sustenance of an ideal world. I doubt Rousseau saw the noble savage as anything but a useful attempt to counter Hobbes’.

Good post. Do you think Hobbes was right? Golding seemed to think so.

Jerkey, please answer the question. Otherwise I will do it for you.

[Moreno]

@jerkey

@Ierrellus

The topic here is whether or not the preadolescent boys, stranded on an island reverted to savagery because of social indoctrination or because of something innate within themselves. Perhaps it could be both?

More likely, de conditioning of rules of civilization. It’s not that the innate animal within comes to the fore, rather, that changing conditions change the rules of the game.

This is a good point. We have children conditioned to fit into a large set of rules, thrown into a scary situation wheere there are nor rules and they are now the authorities, free to make up rules and behave according often to fear in a new situation. This is not animal nature but a peculiarly human situation. Animals know their environments and how to get food and how to work in groups, if they are that kind of animal. You cannot tear away their culture and see what happens in the same way you can with humans.

[Ierrellus]

We domesticate animals and “tear away their original cultures”.