Well I just did, but it wasn’t apart of my overall context, inherent in recent similes. The issue that is most needing to be addressed here, and I think we can all agree to differ or not on the basic subtext, with standing the substratum of the argument doesn’t surface, is whether or not those who see little in calves as a congruent whole should have more than the nominal value of being bovineophobic speaking in a monoglotinous sense.
I think you are both right, as in we try to aspect an etiology to a thing that defies an epistemology. We are after all all specious about many things but eggs are eggs. If those ovoids become more than just ovoids we have to devalue our preconceptions to make sure we account for the new form. It’s all progressive, and it’s all like a calf or a cows leg in the specificity of the dialogue. As I know MagsJ would say there is not a thing that is not a thing unless there is a thing it is not. End of the day we cannot circumvent eggs, both literally and figuratively ideas or literal things.
Congruency is not an ally of language, it is it’s enemy in the sense that if something is not of nominal value, it lacks the rigour of the bovineophobic speaking in a monoglotinous sense.
Bovineophopic statements such as that and rabid anthropocentricism go hand in hand. It is utterly fallacious to imply that calves don’t have calves, the argument doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
Yes… whatever. I like my cows sizzled and my eggs sunny side up- I’ll take all that stuff you all mentioned as the menu in my Omlet.
I didn’t overcome any homophonia in San Francisco- I gained it from first hand experience. However, it’s earned in my regard, and quite legitimate. For example, my noting the role of the gay community as a corallary to the homeless problems in San Francisco in and of itself is but that… it’s statistical and anyone can see that- it’s fucking obvious. What isn’t as obvious is what effect it’s happening on what values are negated, which are accepted, and who get’s priority over who in that given society. What also is massively hipocritical, a massive elephant in the room, is the negative side effects on international health engegered in terms of health from the culture there- The Aids Epidemic… it was a relatively wealthy, jet setting population that completely disregarded moral values in regards to sexuality. They didn’t invent the disesase, but were excellent at speading it. Their reply? Gay Pride and screaming ‘Mother Fucker’. Literally, they coined that phrase ‘Mother Fucker’ for those not old enough to remember when they attacked a American Physhiological Association meeting in San Francisco. The flamboyant politics of that action got homosexuality removed as a psychological disorder. And what do we get in return? A international immune deficiency epidemic centered around that very population, and gay pride marches a billion, and justifiably torn families who spend 18 years raising a kid to continue a family line stretching back billions of years who say suddenly ‘fuck it’.
The end result is in San Francisco- the wealth is piled on a population that’s spreads disease, is the primary buyer of drugs (I fucking know, I watched them all get high as fuck at work, and then head home seeing them buy the drugs from impoverished dealers in my neighborhood), has remarkably little contact with the working population, mostly being intellectuals or higher service industry. You can’t go to a motel there without seeing a bald gay guy in charge, it’s a massive monopoly. And what do they give in return? They encourage a culture of substance abuse, and the homeless population is addicted there in San Francisco for the most part. They catch diseases from exposure to the soil, resulting in amputations when their flesh turns rancent. They end up stealing from everyone.
That has a trickle down effect… and everyone ands up secluded in their very own neighborhoods. When I was leaving, the Homeless and Hookers in the Tenderloin were getting pushed out from the Rich Gay populations in Knob Hill and Union Square where I worked. They called it the ‘Tender Knob’… as all these gay couples would walk up and down past the homeless trannies (they choose that area, fuck if I know why- you want some hobotrannies, head up to Jones Street)… and their whole goal is to push them out as a result. Everyone wants them gone- but they can’t get rid of them- because the encourage the very culture that created them. They mostly came for the free ride- drugs and free sex. They end up diseased, dying in the gutter in the end.
You have any ideas I had to call a ambulance because I found a catatonic hobo? It’s very distracting to get off of work- see a bunch of dead guys from the clubs looking down on the ground all complainaing and talking high pitched, head on over and see a hobo lying on the ground. Everyone thinks he’s dead… you kick him… he doesn’t respond. You kick him again harder… doesn’t respond. Your convinced he’s somehow tricking you… and one of the gay guys claims he works for the city/state doing so and so for the homeless or the health department (like I said, it’s very common for them to go after useless state jobs that never accomplish the task they are founded to solve). It end up with one of us calling the cops… and the firetruck is the thing that arrives first… the fireman kicks the guy real hard… flipping him over… moaning… alive.
Just fuck. I’ve never seen a city consistently so backwards and fucked up. Each community lives so damn isolated from the other. Each community in the city even has a movement for Secession from the Union. Gays want to make their own state, Blacks want their own state, Hispanics swear up and down it’s actually their state and we gotta leave. Only people who are committed to staying are the Chinese, and it’s only because they do it to spite everyone, because everyone else wants them to leave (historical side note- Chinatown was the first part of SF to rebuild after the 1906 quake as the city was talking about relocating them out of the city… they got pissed and rebuilt the neighborhood in record time).
In the end, SF is a collapsed and failed society. It makes money on two things. Imports- which mostly goes to Oakland… and tourism. The tourism is from the city building code that demanded a pretty layout for the city at expense to the population expanision of the city. For example… the city of San Francisco doesn’t allow a building on a hill lower than a building next to it to build itself higher. This had obvious long term consequences in pushing the urban poor farther and farther out into the far reaches of the city… as San Francisco is a peninsula. Most of the population spends hours each day commuting. The law has since been partially relaxed in terms of enforcement… but the damage is done. We know have sprawling neighborhoods who’s crimerate is determined by the elevation of the local housing. In order to increase the avaliability of housing in the city… you gotta buy the top most houses… tear them down, then build them higher, then do a domino trickle all the way down till you hit the poor people in the valley. But the gays don’t want that as their houses are the highest up, cause it’s not pretty. Ruins their view.
So as a result… from little fucking mistakes… the poor are in hoods, the housing market is artificially inflated, where a average size house in West Virginia costing 15,000 dollars now cost 350,000 dollars there on similar quality land. The land is bought out though ethnic banks, though foreign funds… and the local black, hispanic, and white population is perpetually on the verge of becomming homeless. Or… they can move to Oakland, and take a tunnle that eats up most of their paycheck after paying for food and rent when riding that train- because the people who needs public transportation the most- the poor in oakland, must pay more than the richer gay and green population in san francisco.
The place is absurd. I never ‘got over’ homophobia, it’s where I gained mine. I never minded gays before. Now… I have a much higher toleration than any of you. I’ve literaly walked passed guys taking it up the ass in the street and didn’t change my course even slightly. Just in the case of this particular city, the toll has been high and painful for not just it’s residents, not just the nation- but the whole damn world. Millions have died because of their carelessness. They are sinking the economy though careless spending and social recklessness- completely disavowing thousands of years of built up caution as nothing to worry about.
I know the philosophers of the gay community there. I have no problem metting with them, talking about the weird theory of sexuality of the week they thought up. I’m catholic, we’re not puritanical, we know sex exist. Just I have a solid basis, based on experience, of long study and exposure, where I can argue and justify my claims. It’s not what we’re told in school to believe. It was quite simple to collect this knowledge, and examples abound everywhere.
Honestly… they didn’t build San Francisco, but they exploited it like no other. The city has no morals- it has more cathedrals than Christians. They’ve been the leading cause for AIDS spreading, and claim to be victims despite throwing caution to the wind and fucking without thought of consequence. San Francisco exhibits the most extreme varients of strange sexuality (not just talking homosexuality) out there. Many other cities have copied San Francisco and now have their own large gay neighborhoods and culture that is larger than SF, but the consequences are not as severe… because the cities there are not as accepting of the associated absurdities. What do we hear in consequence? ‘What, are you some kind of backwards intolerant fuck who threaten me if i bring a woman back to my place’ which is common in Dyke culture to accure people. No. I literally don’t mind, am completely accepting of having homosexual neighbors. What I don’t want is a naked man with a erection standing behind me in Noah’s Bagel Shop. It’s wrong for so many reasons… where does he even keep the fucking money? I don’t wanna know… I just know they get the bagel as the rest of the shop clears out, and the cops just stand by shrugging cause it’s legal. I’ve only recently have been able to eat bagels again. The trauma.
We have rules and stipulations for a reason. It’s not wise to design a city for art’s sake first and consider population dynamics as a afterthought. Yes… we all have minor neurosis, or psychological issues. It’s true gays have been historically persecuted in the same manner as pedophiles- same anger, abuse, and aggression put forth on them. Both are sexual dysfunctions that doesn’t do much good for the survival of the species, so it shouldn’t be no surprise the underlining psychological rage reaction that comes from it. Doesn’t mean we gotta persecute homosexuality. However… you take the Whore-Madonna equation out of sexuality, take the social role of binding a community together though stable, long term sexual relations of couples living together in a larger body- then decide to take reproduction out of that… it causes major issues. Essentially, the breeding public gets pushed out. They lose revenue that should be going to the next generation- which doesn’t because gays don’t usually reproduce. The culture fixates on innane aspects- pleasure and loss on inhibition. Shit like the spread of AIDS happens as a response.
Alot of the gay-phobia- it’s barbaric and deeply irrationally expressed, but it’s also pretty solid socially the correlations of harm society has reaped from the situation. We get disease on a much higher level than through monogamous relations, they’ve taken a position of pride over the civic associations- such as neighborhood, ethnicity, or state, or sports team… and that particular pride supports policies that exterminate entire family lineages, because they don’t reproduce anymore- causing families considerable and justified distress.
It’s great… in the sense they are open to discussion. Their best intellectuals strongly support open dialogue. You get a discussion going, and they get excited and join in. But once someone starts speaking the truth indepth- pointing out the consequences of their actions… tying their actions they just said they were for to real life phenomena they felt was external to them, the shit changes.
Suddenly, all the news on Chrystal Meth becomes a disproven lie- it’s not true, it’s a myth… fuck you. AIDS hit their community the hardest… they were victims and to place that on them was wrong. They didn’t invent poverty, they don’t have a role in it- people are intitled to their own choices and opinions. They can justify every nuiance in a fuck you in the end. It’s remarkably rare to find a gay philosopher up to the task of digesting that and responding. I’ve seen it happen only two times. First gave up- admitting it was fucked up… the other said what should be done about that.
Now… that’s second philosopher… shit… he’s the only justification at this point for being liberal to homosexuality in the first place. It shows responsibility isn’t completely thrown to the wind, that intellectuals of groups have a responsibility to thinking outside of the box, examining their culture and ways, and seek change when the evidence presents itself. We didn’t come to a conclusion. Alot of the damage was done. Like I said, the building code and layout of the city… that’s produced from unintended consequences of a Queer Eye for the Straight Guy attitude. Hopefully (but I doubt it) the consquences were unintended… they just happened to reap the maximum benifit from a philosophy of urban management they support the most. The other aspects… such as disease transmission from sexual… and encouraging low morals such as drug use and living free and high- which attracts massive numbers of homeless- can be curtailed. The bay area transportation network can be merged and made more equal, so the poor can move out, bringing down property taxes. I shit you not… just walking on foot from oakland at noon you end up in endless expanse of wild fields and gental mountains. I’ve hiked the entire length of the area… there is a lot of land, but the transportation costs via the subway prices out most. As well as enviromental fixations… ten miles out it’s nothing but windfarms and goats, with a occassional massive powerplant hidden just behind the mountain from Northern San Francisco’s view. Relatively cheap land… but they artificially maintained a absurd system based on aesthetics the gay community loved. They did it for the tourism, then for fake claims to Ecology… and in the end, the poor are miserable and divided against one another so this little puny population can have fun and parade naked and infect people with nasty used needles they didn’t dispose of properly, or STDs.
The only reason why it’s not as bad elsewhere is because we’re not as accepting of it. Most of these communities do it for irrational, yet benificially sound reasons. The instinct not to accept that stuff to openly stopped it from snowballing out of control. Yes… I earned my right to my views. It wasn’t born from rage, but experience of direct association and study. I am not angry, save where it causes harm.
Needless to say, I am suspicious of England. I didn’t exactly invent the joke England is forced gay… but the suspicion on the overt adoption of the virtues of the culture keeps me deeply suspicious. Are we witnessing the decline of a major western power? Reproduction and family values have their advantages. We get married for the sake of family, not love. Love isn’t bad in marriage, but isn’t essential, never was. We’re not thinking stuff through very well when we only see the pleasure principle and pogroms lodged against use and respond distressed in rage, and resort to faked pride… a pride that’s a reaction to a perfectly legitimate counter reaction in the hopefully larger stright community.
A few gays in a community is well balanced. If you are gay, you shouldn’t hide it, if that is who you really are. Honestly… no one benifits if your always in the closet. Your parents will pressure you to get married, you’ll let courters of the opposite sex down in frustration- and you will have to have more secrative and hidden laisons. This isn’t a healthy behavior. But you can’t storm the whole of society, and demand your position first before all others. The breeders literally are more important… as they make NEW PEOPLE, including new gays. Culture, mores… they need to be geared to ensuring they do okay, that they reproduce… that their children don’t come up deranged because they were poor as fuck, jailed for selling drugs to you, violating your laws over them. It’s prejudiced, but fuck… they deserve the emphasis on them more. Be content with a calm, stable life… living in the open- and don’t fuck in the streets, have massive drug parties, and most of all, don’t stand naked in bagel shops. That last part is disturbing… you need pockets if your gonna buy something. Don’t stand too close to others you don’t know in line if your gonna do that.
Contra, you are a stereotype of self importance. You’re also a child. Its nice to read about your coming of age experiences and its cute that you think you’re unique. Tell me more about this person you’ve constructed in your mind and decided ton see me as. I’m intrigued. Wait…no I’m not.
Contra-Nietzsche, I’ve always lived in CA and I’d honestly rather live or visit anywhere in CA than that whole area. Oakland and Berkely, even Santa Cruz, an hour or two south, bothers the shit out of me. As far as I’m concerned everywhere else in CA is worth visiting or living. I just don’t like it up there, I can’t think of any tangible reason.
I was trying to show a ‘better’ way to have dialoges on issues related to bigotry in my bigotry topic and your comments there were useful, but you’re more interested in making generalizations about groups, and yes, making homophobic remarks. I don’t care what phobias you have and whether you express them or not. Bigotry is rank in society in all forms. Even in CA among people who are most inlined to join the well known causes against bigotry, you will hear the most bigoted remarks by them about people that don’t fit into their narrow group of what constitutes a minority or underprivileged.
You don’t actually read his stuff, do you? I mean…do you?
The first 500 words at most. I can say that from what I can tell he’s sort of run of the mill, sprinkled with a bit more vocabulary than insight and properly understood just sort of a dull stereotype.
Perhaps,not so fast. The congruency may or maynot turn of a calf of say, whether it has a leg to stand on, but whether it can ever raise to the necessary level. Now we know the straragem of all for one, and one for all, and it has become almost nomenclature in military matters, going back to very early tactics. The Jewish ethics insistence on saying if You save one soul, you save the whole world, too, cannot be entirely discounted, on the nominal value of a calf, whether even before it can be said to be recognised—as whether it is of male or female origin. Which comes before, the recognition, of its genderic idenity, or the appreciation of it’s ,let’s say bedassociation?
But I feel that that is more of a tender-loin problem, and some of us are striving (sometimmes unsuccessfully) to go the other way–into vegeterianism.
The point is, can you mix one with the other? Can the continentals, reduced to a kind of pseudo idealis, ever bother to point to the “higher” logic of appearant congruencies ? I would say yes, at least trying, within an uncertain 500 word limit, and only for the sake of argument, and only for fun.
At the same time , not to so easily dismiss, one of the greatest motifs of human kind, that, I am afraid, may lead one to believe, that it has to only modicum of value to enable one to declare, that to make war , as necessary as it is, shoulkd perhaps, after all, be a spartan sport, with at least “make love” having some semblance of a relief, as to getting to a modicum of realisation behind it.
I had been through all this too, but my military exposure comes from a continental vantage point, hence based on assumptions coming from the other side. My values are nominal, disassociated, in the mechanistic-body way. So it is a state, rather then a fact. States of mind are more difficult, to attempt to categorise, as a starting point, and those that do, accuses such an attempt as a kind of duplicity, of seeking relief from :Both Sides. True.
But, the apologia of the continent to the idools of laogic in language, may be shiwn to be equally inadequate, when faced with the seeming failure of a “higher” logic to overcome the gates of the lower, and henced coming to the very same problems as say that, with the naturalistic fallacy. But still, the naturalistic fallacy, has become a huge elephant, at least from the point of view of military tactics.
So within 500 words, its incredibly naïve, to think, that the issue can be disposed of, ever, and the tender-loin situation, or even the worldwide catastrophe of aids, whether it can be causal to centrisim, will dissuade it, or make it go away.
Sorry, but the pleasure principle overrules the the death of the Gods themselves, and this is a paradimn case, of showing, under what labors, narcissus was able to attain the consciousness necessary, to even go to 2nd base, in terms of self recognition, in terms of seeing himself apart from his fetishes, not to say, of his self recognition.
I am not apoligising or otherwise, and I know, perhaps intuitively, and not parellelly(on pain of something sinister), that socrates, and to a degree, rousseau, knew what I was talking about–as did Maughm, wittgenstein, the prince that relinquished his throne, (rumored) and a host of others.
Very succint obe.
Actually, I don't know why...went to 555 words, well nearly? I don't know, why that 500 word minimum stuck to me, maybe the Acadamy's rules, I suppose. I could have gone much more over that, but I guess it's ok with brevity, as it stands.
Such verbosity is out of place here.
Ok! You are right.
But how do you propose to cut down on lenght? If this is an open forum, not to be edited, would you say we shouldn’t take it upon ourselves to edit each other?
I probably wouldn’t, but you’re doing ok, for the most part. You can’t expect me to read everything you write, give me time, I’ll browse through you comments, I’m sure they’re worth reading, maybe I’ll have some more comments of my own. You have some interesting views on vegetarianism, don’t give up, you’ll get better at putting your thoughts down on paper, I’ve learned as well. Your posts aren’t usually too long, perhaps that one about the 555 words, but look, it’s all relative. I don’t count the words I write, in fact I think it’s kind of a waste of time. You can be very concise, you went from Socrates to Rousseau in six words. Thats, what, 3000 years (but who’s counting)?
Actually, and you are right in retrospect, but I think the problem with this blog, is the excursive way it has veered away from the topic of Magsj. And I have a problem of returning to the topic, because of her lack of participation. After all she moderates here, and she has not come in with a comment. It gives me a pause, and a sense of reluctance to continue, and maybe its just a case of ad-hominem. It’s very difficult to divert attention from one’s self. If its’s sexuality per gender identification the main issue here, or more broadly, identification through participation in groups, then maybe this whole theme has been adequately exhausted, within this present context. Thanks for the clarification.
Certainly, we’re agreed, unless others wish to engage this will be the last word, that, I mean this.
My name was finally mentioned at last (Obe) 
Perhaps I’m just used to complaint threads about me Obe, but I like the way this thread became about Contra the author of it. 
In the vain of being self important enough to make a thread about myself I have started a thread about myself. Be warned I came there to kick ass and chew bubblegum and I am all out of bubblegum. 
You know you opened my eyes. I had a blog aptly named. That I blogged into daily. I know you didn’t refer to it personally, but I will close it, because picking up a thought, that god, mayb I’m like that. But at least I am being honest, rather than trying to give wrong impressions. If it wasn’t meant to be referential, than thanks to you it is deserved. I will continue a diary elsewhere, where the interpretation will be less open in a more appropriate venue. I have done some ass kicking in my time, Tralix, having been a street boy before joingin the military, and am reluctant to retort, under any circumstances. But if you’d ever interested to see a blog which by no means meant to please, but express deep feelings, you might find me in a closed blog in mundane babble.