Mind Reading

Thoughts are sometimes unique, but sometimes not.

Everything a person does, says, thinks, believes, values, etc. can be observed in some fashion, eventually. You’d have to live life like a statue, and be cleverest of all, to really pretend as if actions did not indicate thoughts. This is not to say that actions occur with motivation, like a rock falling off a waterfall has motivation and autonomy. You need to understand the difference between living and dying things, before understanding the difference between thoughts and actions. A thing doesn’t need to live, in order to act. A thing doesn’t even need to be conscious, in order to act. Therefore action is primal/primary. Things act with or without motivations. But thought is special in that it proves living things. Very few organisms are like humans insuch that humans have an evolved cognition, and furthermore, humans present yourselves as “the top” of earthly existence. Or worse, “the top” of universal existence. You believe, falsely, that there is nothing “higher” or “superior” than humanity.

But this is just the premise.

Despite being a highly evolved organism and animal, your cognition and thoughts are relative from one person to the next, and one specie to the next. This reminds me of something important. What is a “specie”, by the way? What does it mean to be human? A specie is a type. And a type is a category. And categories have imperatives. Therefore human cognition has imperative. Sure, everybody is unique and different, to a degree. But the commonality, similarity, and sameness all occur at a predictable point. And that point is the human category.

We’re even using a common language, in a vain attempt to understand each other, sometimes.

Let me just get to the point, before I become distracted by language and communication. Actions prove that thoughts exist. People don’t act at random. Even if a person tried very hard to act at random, this would be much more difficult than people suppose. Because to act “at random” is a vain attempt to defy other people’s expectations. But what if a person has no expectation? Then this person will reject the idea of randomness. Everything has order, and you can’t hide it. The attempt to act random, then, is a betrayal of a vain inner truth. A person has a destiny, and is determined by natural forces, but attempts to deny such forces.

Like jumping away from earth will defy and deny gravity, does it?

Ok, here’s the point then. We don’t begin mind reading with words and communication. We begin mind reading by understanding actions without expectations. If you clear out all your expectations of people, humanity, and if you’re extremely adept, clear out all your expectations of life and existence as a totality, then actions can never deceive you. Because “it is what it is”. And you can’t change it. You can only rationalize it. And this is how people think.

This is what a “mind” is.

Before reading a mind, you have to know, or guess, its underlying expectations of existence. And by this I mean, The Premise, of something. The preposition. The presumption.

Premise
Preposition
Presumption

Philosophy is unique, because with enough doubt, you can clear away more definitions and premises than just about every other person. And from as near a clean slate as is possible, you can understand the world with as much clarity as is humanly possible.

You can only deceive people through their expectations of existence. Without such expectations, you can read minds, and quite easily. I’ll begin to teach you how.

I can’t disagree with that one. =D>

But then, I wouldn’t expect anyone to “sign up” either, not on this forum. :sunglasses:

I am ready. Please teach me how to read minds.

obe,

First, little grasshopper, you must go find yourself a nice little river, and a nice little rock in front of it to sit on, and sit and watch as the river goes by. Have no thoughts, do not even worry about breathing or that someone may come and sit on you, crushing you. Just sit quietly and absorb the way of the river, how it flows - continually flows. Pay attention to it. Pay attention to all that surrounds you. When the river begins to speak to you, pay very close attention to it. LISTEN with great care. The flow of the river is akin to the flow of the mind. It is only in first knowing the flow of the river and loving that that you will someday be able to read minds.

And by that time, you will have learned the wisdom of not wanting to read minds but of simply wanting to read the river.

:laughing:

First let’s identify some functions of the human brain: cognition, consciousness, perception, sensation, logic, memory, pattern recognition, recollection, and projection.

The human mind is not limited to these functions; there are more. Different organisms have different brains have different functions. The brain of a lizard is not the same as the brain of a coyote. The brain of a fish is not the same as the brain of a bird. In fact, not even the brain within a specie of organism is the same as itself. The brain of one ant will be different than the brain of another ant. The brain of a drone ant is different than the brain of a queen ant. Within a specie, organic functions differ between individual organisms. Therefore we must separate “the mind” into three categories: individual, hierarchy, and society. The brain of a king/queen (master) is different than that of a drone/peasant (slave), representing hierarchy. The brain of one person is separated in time and space from another person, representing individuality of perspective. And finally, there is a group of brains working together or cooperating (specie) to fulfill functions that individuals cannot fulfill alone, representing a group or society.

However the functions of thought (cognition, memory, sensation, etc.) remain relatively the same between individual and his society.

For example, a group of 1 million human animals will separate and divide mental functions by proficiency. Some humans (human females) naturally can memorize better than others (human males). Therefore some humans will be better than others at specific tasks. For example, human males are highly competitive, indicating a mental function that coincides with increased competition (eg. threat recognition and compensation). Human males will have a categorically different threat recognition analysis than do human females, coinciding with other physical traits.

While deconstructing mind reading, we will begin with humanity, since it is the most immediate and applicable type of mind reading.

There is another preliminary step to mention, intelligence. Humanity takes itself as the “highest intelligence in universal existence”. Therefore humans are an egotistical, solipsistic, and predictable breed of organisms. Humans convince themselves of a highest type of cognition. Eventually, I will call this into doubt. But for now, we can admit that humans are the highest intellectual type on planet earth. And humans are the highest intellect known to themselves. However I will insert here that a lower intelligence both fears and ignores higher intelligence. So if humans were to step across the path, and meet, a higher intelligence, higher evolved organism, then humans would act predictably, and immediately deny the existence of the ‘Alien’ organism. Subsequently, humans would also attempt to lower the higher intelligence, to the plane of human intelligence, which is an err. Particularly in the u.s. anti-cultural modernity, the average human cannot fathom, and doesn’t want to imagine, an intelligence higher than its own. This explains in general why u.s. citizens are so atheistic and anti-spiritual. Religion and spirituality help compensate for failures of human intelligence. For example, catholics believing in god, represents a human believing in an intelligence (or divine willpower) higher than its own.

Atheism represents a sort of autism, solipsism, and egotism all in one brain.

But humans are more intelligent than the “lesser” animals on earth. An individual human is superior (intelligence) than a bird, fish, coyote, or lizard. And presumably the collective human intelligence (group-think) of all human civilizations are greater and superior than the collective “bird intelligence”, fish intelligence, coyote intelligence, etc.

   What ever happened to I Am A River, he doesent post here much anymore?  
    But Arc, Nature has a lot to say, and caught up as we are, often to the point of rumination, in what is expected of us, we fail to gasp the essential message. But there is a catch 22 here, expectations are often veiled attempts to cover the fact that love, is mostly in-it's self , rather inscrutible, but on the other hand, it is used as a commodity, to effect the presumption that it will be understood, categorically.

How many times do we see power hungry men go around kissing babies so as to effect their will upon those who show doubt as to the efficacy of their agenda?

Love is also a four letter word, and You are right, if we were only be able to suspend expectations, and clear the slate as it were, but here is h catch, and it is not an obscure journey into the heart of darkness, to say, that true love transcends the need to clarify it’s self, into expectations and/or just letting it , Oh, Be. The self in this case doesent clarify this, can,t, doesent want to, and this is the price it pays, for it’s own percepton of it’s self, #1, and then worry about it’s expectations. It first presents the thesis. Or it seems at first. But when the threshold is crossed, when this can be overcome, this mounting delusion that it is himself that the expected is programed to receive, then clearly, the immediate realisation comes in clearly, that it is their expectations which are of concern. Nature, the river of the flow of it, does speak wonders, and the use of love evolves from the churgling of the brook, to the realization that nature is indifferent, it speaks of quietness and eternity, but also for a need to cross it, by the coming of the higher intelligence, which needs a bridge, to get over a river, Wizard, that bridge nowadays have become more than propositional, people are not at all sure they can speak the same language, or understand their meaning.
Both of You are speaking of an almost lost world, a world which is almost telepathically recaptured. We are programmed to receive.

 Oh don't get me wrong, there is still love in all this, but a love so redundant, as to hide the entropic diminishment of it, but still, as the whispering river, as a faint reminder of the price of Nature's necessary cruelty in evolving, so that it can hear it's own message.

Now i have to add to this, so that You will not misunderstand , that the distinct i, has this capacity, which can clean the slate, but i think Your notion of the primordial 1, or self, is the key. The accessibility of that, is similar to the silent language of the river. Wizard, I did not give justice to Your ideas, and need to try to comprehed that much more than i was able to with on first reading. Will respond, more adequetly shortly as time permits. Arc, Your allegory is really so close, that if i tried to express the almost supernatural adherence i have to Nature, You would wonder, if we were, or could be reading each others’ minds. It may be necessary to point out to You that my belief in the supra conscious rests on the realization, that a literal communication of Nature is impossible. Can come quite close, but it can nver capture it. That is why to me, mind reading may imply telepathy.

But of course, on second thought the above was the wrong thing to say, You are both so right, whom am i kidding? You have both got it right, i was a fool, wanted to edit everything, or erase what i wrote, but decided against it, let it stand, at least it shows no attempt at deception. As far as i can see, i need not dwelve into this, only that for lack of what You are descriging have i had paranormal activity, which i could do without, but at the same time it is one way truth comes in. Incidentally, it is not only i, who has this ‘gift’ everyone under duress and self deception, is subject to them They mostly come in form of dreams, but at times via weird, and unexpected coincidences, such as knowing what someone is thinnking about, or other effects.

Obe, try to avoid the mindless distractions here. Some minds are desperate for attention and will scream at the top of their lungs, while everybody around her ignores her, and instead gives their attention to what truly captivates them.

By definition, the rarest minds are exceptionally powerful. The average mind is weak, empty, and pitiful, by comparison. Some minds (brains) have a gravity about them, a density, strength, weight, influence, aura of power. Others do not. And those who do not have this power, want what they lack. They want a voice worth listening to. But how does a man have a voice? Does he sing? Or does he speak? There is a difference. It is one thing to sing a philosophy. It is another to speak a philosophy.

It is yet another to live a philosophy.

Obe, focus on me, for the sake of this particular thread. Allow me to captivate you.

wizard it is very difficult to focus in a world where redundancy is rampant. Captivating once was an ordinary way of expressing the call for an expectation ,an extraordinary attempt to go beyond the normal routes of communication . It was expected to be extraordinary, not the other way around. It was an age of wonder, and the exclusion of no possibilities.

I do not require that of You, as You probably don’t either. At the same time, admittedly, we may shield against the possibility that our minds could be read beyond the words, between the lines, if they were perchance unintended.

Therefore surprises are usually unwanted effects, and not caused by a wish to be noticed, rather the opposite, the limit of the excess, in order to communicate, without going the other way, to severely limit and impoverish communication. One may tend to be confused for the other. There is a certain fear lurking here, of exposure,over exposure, or underexposure to get things across.

At limits reached, where i sense things start to fade, more imagery is used, and that imagry connects with the sub conscious material. Here associations loosen, and the reference takes a turn into the less
fathomable. ‘Things’ start to come up, and the writer becomes more of a medium, an automatic writer.I am not asking You to amaze me, but if You wish it may become of some significance, or, it may pass unnoticed into the annals of nothingness. If You wish.

  In all seriousness, Wizard, i would ask You to amaze.  I promise to focus.

Wizard

:laughing: So, what now? You call yourself EVERYBODY?
Incidentally, Wizard, i wasn’t speaking with you - I was speaking with Obe.
By the way, i enjoy attention/feedback, it’s quite natural. Who would want to come into a philosophy forum, post, and get no feedback? But desperate for attention? That is NOT myself.

Perhaps it is YOU who is desperate for My attention. Would you have uttered your above words - otherwise? Was I even speaking with you? No, I was speaking with obe.
But now since I have given my attention to you, you may go on your way and proceed with obe. Go in peace, Wizard. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, I do that very often. What about you? Who, what captivates you?

\

I may respond to this when I have more time. Oops, I forgot - I can’t. You like to bump me.lol
It’s been fun. I simply love people who are contrary. I love walking into the wind.

[size=200]Obe, oh please do focus on him - otherwise he may just dissolve into tears. [/size]

Wizard - you sound more like a “siren” than an wizard.
Nice having this one-way conversation with you. Seriously, I’ve enjoyed it.

obe

I don’t know obe. Maybe he decided to go out to sea - to become something greater and larger than himself.

The nature within or the nature without? What do you mean by “what is expected of us”? Acting in a way which is contrary to how we really want to be?
What is the essential message? To be or not to be - as we choose to be? When I sit before nature, surrounded by nature or alone with the nature within, how can there be just one message, one “essential” nature? Wouldn’t it be different for everyone - different for you and different for me.

I don’t know about that, obe. What do I know about love? It is mysterious as it is known. Some say it’s simply about those chemicals within the brain. It has to be so much more than that though, don’t you think? It can be such a wonderful journey, a scary journey, a mysterious and dark lol journey into the unknown. It also is a meeting place where people buy and sell for their own delusions - sell their very souls.

They may trick the people desperate to believe in him but they don’t trick you and I, do they obe? That’s not to say that there are not some of them who actually love babies and kiss them out of love.

,
Which four-letter word would that be? There are probably quite a few which could define love but not bring it any closer to reality. Even the word “cold” could do that.

,
But we do have the capacity to suspend expectations. Even though eventually that might lead to heartache at the same time we can experience love in a much greater sense in that way. Hmmm…where is that coming from? lol But perhaps a man might feel differently about that than a woman. Women are far greater at sacrificing their selves and souls for love - for a man it’s for his job and an ideal.

But it might be an obscure journey into the heart of darkness, obe. But even darkness can be beautiful. It’s so sacred and still and has such promises of unseen things, just waiting in the wings.

What perception of self would that be, obe? Can such a flowing thing, such a process as self be perceived in a finality?

Oh, okay, this is for that Wizard.

We are also programmed to give, obe. No man is an island unto himself. Who would there be programmed to receive if there were not those who could give?

Love is energy. I thought that energy could not die, could not be destroyed, but could only transform itself, take on another Self, Soul.

I love this by Rumi.

Heart, what a rare bird you are.
that in your yearning for heaven’s attention,
you flew to the spear-point like a shield.

The rose flees autumn,
but what a foolhardy rose you are,
seeking the autumn wind.

You were Rain from another world
that fell on this dusty earth.
You ran in all directions
and escaped down the gutter.

It’s funny, Arc. I Rumi(nate) a lot about love, as the many splendored thing, Irrellus quipped- ‘a many splintered thing’ i like this song,

lemon tree is very pretty

and the lemon flower is sweet
but the fruit of the poor lemon is impossible to eat

my son always stated that he sees mom’s and my
relationship as somewhat a bad imitation of lennon
and yoko’s grand stand that the east and the west can share a lot of unnoticed subtelties

in the west love is mostly for affect, the feel goody
of self deception of trying to recapture something, a status, a warm glowing feeling that dad or mom provided, an assurance, a re-asurance, visit to uncle harry, a swim down river, another thanksgiving
dinner, where grandma for once can get out of the
rocking chair and make herself useful, the holidays, it’s a wonderful life, go westward young gary cooper, highway route 66 and smash we are at the very edge
of the getle pacific, where mai tai in hand lounging
under palm trees, we can sort of re create the stark black and white realities of the old country so baroque and archaic, a past hungrily held on by only
faint gesture of mad to let go, fly into the sun dear
new world, (while i am scibbling mahler tantalizes) order, and cleanliness my dear , papa said to mama get down on your knees when you buffet the parquet.

Then the east, theobvious effect none the mind the
affect, there is no darkness within there, none at all
as Kathryn Hepburn would say so stand offishly, atrip to bountiful dear will do You good, the southern charm lost in an un civil war,

east it’s magic and mystery it’s hiddennes, and zen type brevity in flower arrangement a whole life
nature

breathe at once, in the moment everything is
every thing subverts the nerves it unnerves it,

and calms it’s essential impatience
almost as ifmpound ezra vindicated,

it eats up it’s self momentarily forget the dark corners of the lost wheat fields.

the brodge intellectual, the closest can get to

is hart cranes’s brooklyn bridge, liveing on the vapor of the city, the grime and crime of the stunning

natue of cental park,

and here in the vast blue pacific , de realized at the
clouds billowing in

as the jasmin of the streets no longer ,

want so much to breath through the
grass,

the grass
the grass, the classical gas,

there is a little caffee along highway 15 leading
through to palm desert toward stateline nevada,
which repeated many times, betty sues coffee,
reminder of an america never lost.
yet blowing from the southerm wind

a weary reminder

‘I accept lostness for ever’

correction: the caffee along Interstate 15 is called Peggy Sue’s diner.

Arc, please try to imagine that the above’s errors are the flawed and despicable effects of an irredeemably untrustworthy computer, maybe it’s full, of bugs will check it out next week, will take it to geek squad, in the meantime, try to forgive me for them, and decipher them.

Wizard just noticed that You are on board, please have You put the promise to amaze on the back burner? Hope to hear from You in the near future.

Yes I see it obe. However the “anti atheist” thread has been consuming some of my thoughts at the present moment. I plan to return to this thread as soon as possible.

much obliged! do the best you can wizard, time is of the essence,

Time truly is of the essence. I often wonder how many seconds and how many steps I have remaining in my momentary life.

I may die between the writing of this post and your reading it…who knows

However I will spend a few seconds on you now, obe. You are curious about mind reading. The first thing you need, is a lack. You need to be curious, as is the case with philosophy. You need to want to explore existence. And you have to want this more than everybody else around you. Because it’s through curiosity that a person learns about anything, let alone the mind of another creature. Without this curiosity, this philosopher essence, you really won’t know about people beyond a certain point.

Everybody has different levels of mind reading capabilities. The average human is quite simple and easy to understand. The average human is easy to read. Why? Because common people want common things. They’re commoners. By defining this average of the commoner, most of your work is already finished. What does a common person need and want? The average human needs clean water to drink, food to eat, shelter, rest, safety, comfort, etc. Presuming these physical needs are taken care of, and secure, then we can move onto much more complex desires. After basic physical demands are secured for large populations of people, for long periods of time, what do people then focus on? Sex. And what does sex entail?

Sex entails seduction and copulation, represented by females. And sex entails competition and violence, represented by males. Therefore, the more desire an individual or particular person has around sex, the more the inner nature of their respective genders, will flourish and differentiate itself within its environment. For example, a man has his needs taken care of. He has water, food, shelter, rest, etc. What should he do? His biology will focus on reproduction. Because sex and reproduction are the results of excess resources. When excessive resources occur in specific conditions, historically, then almost every, or every specie, tends to reproduce in larger numbers. Because more resources means expansion of types.

But let’s not go too far forward just yet. You need to learn some basics. What is the nature of desire?

Desire revolves around lack. People desire what the do not have, never what they have. Because to have something, is to no longer desire it. To have something, and not want to lose or relinquish it, is a sign of fear, not hope. Want revolves around hope, not fear. Because a person can never fear to lose what they’ve never had. Therefore desires reflect hopes. And desires (wants) are the extension of needs. The difference between need and want, is the difference between necessity and sufficiency. You need to drink water, eat food, sleep in a shelter. These physical, material needs, are not matters of “want”, but matters of need. And if deprived, then the effects to the mind of a person or organism, is too easy to predict. Organisms who are deprived of basic material conditions, will become emotional and violent.

Suffering causes change. The more severe the suffering, the more severe the change of an organism and its environment by consequence.

Before I talk about desires and their relation to the mind, first let’s remember what the mind is by definition.

The mind is a metaphor for the brain, neurology, and cognition. So when you receive the concept of “the mind”, you must directly associate this concept with “the brain”, “the nervous system”, and “cognition, thought, ideas, beliefs, etc.” Emotions are mindless. And while emotions occur through the brain, emotions are not the same as “the mind”. Emotions are antithetical to the mind. Because to have a brain, and be excessively emotional, is essentially the same as having, or not needing a mind at all. Why have a brain, when all you use it for is to process emotions? And what would the processing of these emotions be, mean, or do?

The mind is not a metaphor for feeling, emotions, and opinions. Rather I declare that feelings, emotions, and opinions are bodily. They are separate from the mind. A starving animal, close to death, and willing to chase down a deer, kill it, and eat it alive with its sharp teeth, to sate this hunger, is mindless. It is just being, as almost all organisms are. It has a brain, yes. But its brain regulates simple desires and concepts. Instinct is the essence of emotion.

Did you know that many organisms, animals, and species don’t have brains at all? Some organisms are just purely “body” or “of the body”. Pure instinct, mindless. So when speaking about the mind, we must differentiate between mindful ideas, or, mindless ideas. A mindful idea comes from a particular, individual brain, that is extraordinary or intelligent. A mindless idea comes from a common brain, that is normal, average, common, and unintelligent.

Intelligence is the measure of the mind. And with this distinction, we will begin reading the minds of other things, creatures, and especially humans.

Wizard :thank You for this interesting explanation on mind reading. Actually this is a good introduction to what my ultimate aim is, which consists of reading minds without actully beeing thee, without even seeing the person i am with, nor actually hearing him sspeak. I guess the basics haveto be mastered first, the need, (versus the want) to actually interact on an acceptable,mutually agreed to level. I guess You are right, we can’t go from A to C without crossing B. I see a problem here, looming ahead, indistinct, as of yet, but at the same time, i am vaguely aware of it. And that is the need, again that word, to not to bypass all of the stuff that comes in , while having all eyes and ears focused on C. The stuff, is B, and that is for most common people, is regularly by-passed. Most common people learn by leaps and bounds, and miss the gaps, caused by losses, for instnce as in my case, having had to work myraid odd jobs, someof which borderred on the unbelievable while getting my eduction. In this respect, and others, a certin weakness develops, and educational Achilles Heel.

I will continue in a while my response for now, duty calls, Wizard.

I had to start a new blog because my laptop has bugs.

I went back to the orginal thesis, in which You related
a lack of expectations, as the requirement for further
understanding. I read You here, and the corollary here in practical terms is 'do not judge, lest you be judged. Judging involves a hidden expectation, whether knowingly, or not. The problem here is, that man is a creature of habit, and we all at times find ourself doing this. Now if one person interacting with another, or, within a group, the difficulty arises, that
the hidden aspects , sometimes hidden from one, may interfere with other’s, presumingly all trying to discount, or, give the benifit of doubt to, the other(s)

That said, the the ascertained levels of each individual may not be set, but may remain in suspended animation, a fluid dynamic of expectation, now this beyond mere body language, of how exactly to respond. I do not see, apart from body language, how expectation can be discounted from the interaction, because as soon as one word is uttered, the interpretive mind goes into drive, and tries to construct an appropriate response on the basis of
that.

 My feeling is at this point, that that is not the 'kind' of expectation You are implying.  Maybe it has to do with starting of with gross aggregates of minimum expectations, as You would from a common, or average man.  Here is another problem.The minute a subscription to that is assumed, the averige man may feel slighted, condescended toward, or far worse.  Such assumptions are difficult to make, for the other may feel more than average, and may feel it is common in the derogtory sense to make such an assumption.

Now my retort may have been a defensive move on my part to pre-empt any furtherance in this discussion, and may be making a mistake even as i am trying to communicate to You, hoping You have not expired yet, after Your first communication.

 On that score i am hoping You are still well, and if You are not as of yet reading these lines, You may be very soon.  My project is two fold regarding mind reading.  First, noting Arcturus suggestion to be able to find a relaxed sense of peace, find clarity.  The with a reasonable sense of that, to be able to differentiate the problem we are discussing, as one, which is in the realm of need, or one of want.  

 I assure You, it is not the latter, of which i am convinced.  In light of that, mind reading has , at least for me, evolved to the third stage, even beyond finding meaning, between the lines, to receive meaning in extra-ordinary ways.

 In a sense, i would like to resolve this issue of the secondary kind, but the hindrance is, that the third, seems to always have taken a center position for me.

It is very connected, almost to an ‘intrusion’ if i may call it that, but nowedays, it has been accepted as a ‘good thing’, a helpful ally, upon which a dare not depend, but has guided the enormity of unresolved secondary processes.

 Detail would be futile at this point, and not even of much interest, however suffice it to say, that i have had times when i found myself in the position of trying (having to) integrate them. If this process fails, the reliance becomes on the highes function, it takes over as if by auto pilot, and since there is no basisfor it, it appears as a message.  Not an auditory one, in my case, thank God, but an understanding, that it is coming from a synchronous source.  If i were to try to remove this from any and all expectation, then i am positive, the 'system' would not allow it.  There are no overrides.

I hope, that You only take relevant (to You) parts of my response to You as a useful part of the substance of what we are, and maybe shall be discussing in the future of this thread, notwhitstanding unnecessary or unessential parts.