Modern Slavery In The So Called Enlightened West.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

Nice bunch of rubbish.

I don’t know of one human society where skills aren’t cashed in for resources. Infact, none- exist. (I’m not asking for you to point you one unskilled person with more resources, thats not the point)

only that consistantly labour or skills are demanded for resoruces of some s ort.

Noam Chomsky is also ignorant about human nature past some of the revolutionary stuff he suggested about language, thinking human behavior cannot be explained by natural selection/evolution and all that. But thats fine, you’re probably unfamiliar with all his work on linguistics on top of all his insane and baffling social commentary.

Whatever you say, Cyrene.

I’ve noticed that you didn’t even try to disprove the facing reality of wage slavery throughout all societies of the world.

( Because you can’t.)

( Moving along…)

So, Cyrene what is absolute rubbish about wage slavery?

Who said the West was “enlightened”? Christians??? :laughing:

:sunglasses:

I think I agreed with the notion of ‘wage slavery’ in most human societies, which is why I asked you to point out one human society where skills aren’t routinely traded for resources, t here are none. Whic h was my point.

The term ‘wage slavery’ seems only to me, like the obvious pointing out of certain social adaptations (say, skill/resource trading) and we evolved that in hunter-gatherer societies. My point is that no human society will ever abandon the practice of skill/resource exchange, because we’re evolved for it.

Understand?

some society won’t miraculously produce itself where humans don’t exchange resources and skills, or resources for X job. I find the criticism of wage-slavery fairly empty, on its face.

Theres plenty of problems with distribution of wealth in socity, no so much of a problem that people exchange skills/ resources.

Maybe the amazing amounts of technology and science that comes from western nations, crushing almost all other’s export of scientific ideas. (though to be fair, scientists from other nations, a lot of the time, come over to ours to do research etc)

This is the reality of human life, everywhere. *everywhere. *everywhere.

Its not going to simply change because you have insane, and baseless ideas about human nature. Your anarchistic society is impossible, because people are adapteed toact like this.

Them amongst other people…

K… So we both agree that slavery in reality has not been wiped out but instead is only pronounced to be by that of mass deception. Congrats.

Isn’t interesting that societies speak of equality all the while they enslave others through wages and capitalistic enterprises?

You’ll have to forgive me in that I notice a bit of irony here.

I never stated that there was. [-X

Thus violence, murder, rape, stealing, war and conflict will forever exist indefinately.

No salvation and no redemption… No heaven…No utopia…No social progression…

( No hope.)

Yes. You have only pointed out to me what was already obvious.

You should be supporting this thread then instead of attacking it if that is what you believe.

And amongst all those problems law, justice, morality and ethics appears to be nothing beyond being a ironic joke.

I attack it because its stupid to call it slavery, and its stupid to complain about when theres no other options. People can still trry and improve society, make it a better place for us, but as long as humans are human, the trade of resources for skills will remain.

To call that slavery, is ridiculous, and most people who do it are trying to suggest some nonsensical anarchistic bullshit social idea that could work instead. ‘wage slavery’ is not wage slavery, its the way every normal human, in every society that ever existed, has expected out of his fellow people. As long as humans are engaging in human interaction, we’ll do this.

No one every said that war, inequality, or anything else was going to dissapear, they’re not. We’re human, you better come to accept that soon.

I’ve never argued for a heaven or a utopia, ever, only that living in a state of nature is about as close to hell as humanity can get, and denying this, like you do, is beyond ignorant and beyond stupid.

Enlightenment is not limited to scientific ideas. It is the culmination of philosophy, science, and spirituality into unifying teleologies. Furthermore, such teleologies cause paradigm shifts in male-thought throughout the entire world. (like Newton, Darwin, or Einstein’s isolated contributions)

Who said anybody was “enlightened”? :laughing:

The most important types of enlightenment are scientific, they highlight the nature of reality/the universe, to the best of our abilities, science is also, the only massively self-correcting engine that exists. Bad ideas don’t get cut out of philosophy like a tumour, consistantly.

Theres plenty of places for philosophical knowledge, and its important, even as a type of enlightenment, but sorry, it just doesnt’ compare.

Everything we know about the real world, has been given to us through science. Everything we know about *anything empirical, is almost always scientific.

To compare the power/results of science, to any other body of knowledge, is an exercise in futility, and a joke.

As to spirituality, it depends on what you mean by that exactly, but thats an issue of emotional claims, not about truth-claims, it may be important to live a happy life, but its not a systematic body of knowledge revealing truth about the universe.

Even subfields of science produce more of a body of knowledge than the entire body of philosophy.

Biology and its subfields have produced more useful knowledge than most of philosophy combined, and thats ignoring every other type of science. Biology alone has revolutionizeed our understanding of the real world, in ways that philosophy, probably, never, ever will. Unless you want to call science a type of philosophy, which it is, but besides that.

Is science not the direct result of philosophy?

Not [size=150]if[/size] science is grounded in philosophy.

Let me guess–you don’t think it is?

Philosophy is a broad, broad, term, that can essentially mean *any body of thoughts. Yes, science is a philosophy.

Unfortunately, its a class of philosophy on a level, to which all other philosophies cannot compare. Its a ‘philosophy’ based around the search for truth and the systematic removal of factors getting in the way of that, its a massive self-correcting engine.

The power/potential/returns, of science, are not comparable, to any other type of philosophy. That is the truth and we all know it is the truth.

Joker I think you’re right that there’s something wrong with the way things are exchanged now. Cyrene, I think you’re right that there’s no other option. It seems like the problem is in the degree to which the average person is being exploited for profit. And I don’t mean profit that’s put back into research and development, but actual profit. Sure we all have to exchange things, and it happens all the time in ways that don’t seem like slavery, but it also can get out of hand to the point where average people cannot afford to sustain a basic standard of living while others live extravantly. Both you guys should get on the issue of figuring out economic equality for the whole world. You’re both too smart to be having some anti-capitalist vs. evolutionist contrarian debate. What kind of debate is that anyway?

I don’t disagree that equality problems massively exist, and that lots of them are even potentially addressable.