Money: counterfeit

Money not sufficient measure of labor
Money= representation/currency
Money attained is not work done
Money in excess is stolen

I steal candy from babies. nothing wrong with stealing.

So do I, but that’s not the point. This isn’t about morals, I’m stating facts. :smiley:

gotcha

Sure, people can hoard grossly unfair shares of money, but the world can’t function without it.

If money is not a fair measure of labor, then there is no way to reckon what excessive pay is.

What would be a better measure of labor than money?

Amount of time spent laboring + amount of time required to prepare for the job (including education, perhaps)?

This is something I think about a lot.

Real currency is knowledge.

Murex–

Interesting. ponders How does that work with paying manual laborers?

Any pay, more or less, is inaccurate. Excessive pay or as I’d like to call “free range of economic exploitation” is allowable by the pretense of money which disorients the labor from the product of labor and the manufacturers from the manufactured. Where the idle recieve a worker’s pay and the worker becomes the idler’s item.

“X does not equal Y so X cannot define Y” is the formula.

And if you accept less than your worth, you only have yourself to blame.

You don’t pay them with anything, assuming there was a senerio where knowledge replaced money. You would create your own things, so there wouldn’t be manual laborers, only philosophers and idiots.

Money is okay; It’s cost externalization that sucks.

Cost externalization is the greatest subsidy/welfare there is, and those who carry the externalized costs pay the greatest taxes of all.

Finally, the greatest cost-externalizers are also the greatest champions of free-market capitalism, and they are also the least capable of handling true free-markets or capitalism. Money just helps these so-called “rugged individualist, boot-strapping” welfare queens bullshit those who aspire to be like them. It’s a pea under one of the shells. Unfortunately, it’s hard not to play the game.

Of course there are those who sell their knowledge for money.

Indeed, time and advice are a stock and trade.

There are those people who believe knowledge is worth far less than labor. I can’t see it that way, but some do. It takes far more work to gain knowledge than it does most physical skills.

Labor without knowlege is worthless. Ask any laborer. “Measure twice, cut once.”

The problem is this: Knowlege has learned how to harness labor, but labor has not learned how to harness knowlege. Knowlege thinks it has value beyond labor, and while that may be true, it’s funny how demanding it is of labor.

Finally, neither knowlege or labor have harnessed wisdom. They need enlightenment for that.

This is very true. but knowledge without labor ? A knowledgable person can do what labor does more often than not. They just have reached a point where they choose to not. It becomes a point where the knowledgable pays the labor to do the things they don’t want to do. What is so wrong with that? Not a darn thing. If the labor undervalues their worth why is it the right thing to blame the employer? Knowledge needs labor, Labor has as much hold over knowledge as knowledge has over labor. When you undervalue your worth, it is your fault and yours alone.

Labor is determined not by what one thinks one is worth, but by what the market says it is worth. I may think I am worth $10.00 per hour but if the guy next to me is willing to work for $9.00, then it’s not my fault for not getting $10.00. I starve or get paid less than what I think I am worth. He is just hungrier than I am. You can’t presuppose collective bargaining or unity. That requires wisdom, which can never be presupposed.

As to your first point, to extrapolate on what I said before, knowlege requires liesure whereas labor requires hunger. In America, we have lots of liesure and not much hunger.

Liesure is paid for by labor. Once you work hard and fill your belly, you can sit around and think of better ways of doing the labor the next time you get hungry (i.e. knowlege).

Regarding the current immigtation debate, the big elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about is this: It’s NOT that these people do jobs that Americans WON’T do; rather, it’s that these people will do jobs that Americans CAN’T do. Americans are too fat, stupid and and lazy to do unskilled labor. And they are fat, stupid and lazy because they are not hungry. However, rather than use leisure to advance knowlege of how to execute labor, they enjoy the bread and circuses brought to them by knowlege.

Americans will get hungry again when they kick out all the illegals, the price of food goes up, and they can no longer afford the bread and circuses. If knowlege has no wisdom, then knowlege will keep providing bread and circuses to avoid labor revolts. If knowlege has wisdom, it will put the “enlightened” back in self-interest and harness itself a little bit.

Oh they are rounding up the migrants that work farms, that has been on the news , price of food is going up quickly. since last week I have seen jumps in prices. Fresh vegies are crazy expensive. 1$ for a bell pepper? almost 2$ for a head of Iceburg lettuce? I saw watermelons going fo 8$,

I agree about the fat and lazy. but, still if that guy next to you is willing to work for 9 instead of 10$ then move out and find some other place. No one says you have to stay put and starve. Getting ahead requires risks survival requires risks. The saying “move it or lose it” applies.