Most geniuses are men. Genes or environment?

Most geniuses, historically and currently, are male. Why?

  • Genes
  • Environment
  • Both
  • Can’t tell
0 voters

Historically and currently, most geniuses - in fact, almost all geniuses - have been male. Before the 1900s, the trend was to ascribe this to inherent male superiority. After women’s lib, up through the present, the trend is to ascribe it to male oppression of women.

Current science suggests that neither of those is correct. A study of IQ scores across cultures show that men and women have the same average IQ. Thus men are not superior to women - and neither are women superior to men. However, the same studies show that men have greater variance in their distribution than women. Men spread out father, women tend to cluster. What this means is that, while men and women have the same AVERAGE IQ, more men are really stupid, and more men are really smart. Women, by contrast, tend to be more moderate.

Interestingly, this means that if you take average IQs over functioning, independent adults, women are smarter, on average. But if you look at the geniuses, they are almost all men.

Is this observed difference genetic, then, or environmental? There doesn’t seem to be enough data to settle the question definitively, but I would say that it looks to be more genetic. If it were environmental, you’d expect to see just as many very stupid women as very stupid men, but fewer geniuses. Instead, the distribution for women is compacted on both ends.

Thoughts?

Feelings. :wink:

Ha!

Men and women may live in the same environment, but their sociological/behavioral structures can be very different. Where boys are encouraged to play as astronauts, girls are encouraged to play “house” o_O (yes it is a crude example, but you get my point)

I don’t think being a genius means having a high IQ. I think it means being skilled at anything. IQ for me is limited, so…

If you say someone can be a genius without having a high IQ and use my definition, I’d say there have been lots of women geniuses and they’re just not labeled with the word genius because of environment.

If you say it’s only IQ that makes a genius, then I’d say go with the data and say it’s genetic.

Statistically and socially, this is your answer.

What I want to know is why there are so few geniuses who are black. Sorry, negro. Sorry, afro-Caribbean. Sorry, afro-American. Sorry…

Much of what we take to be ‘brilliant’ and whatnot actually derives from the Western Analytical approach. Who here (besides Xunzian) can name a genius in Eastern Philosophy outside of Lao, Buddha and the regulars?

There are many african genius’ but their types of intelligent do not always make the news because it is not all that conductive to the western paradigm. Do you see how things like existentialism can be used politically while arcane notions of infinity and whatnot does not work so well?

Now… being part black the above is my basic theoretical defense, but I think we should take into account that Africa is a shitbin of purposefully orchestrated corporational tyranny and I don’t think anyone can argue that it’s not all too easy to ‘make it’ in a lot of the countries there.

Also, black culture in America is really abysmal - the culture itself has set most blacks in America up for failure, as it seems to actively disdain education and social accomplishment. Those born in the (relatively very few) wealthy and educated black families will have a better chance of success, but those born in a typical middle-to-lower-class black family are likely to be ingrained with those values before they are enough of an individual to change them.

Chairman Mao? Kazuo Ishiguro? Shunsuke Nakamura (if you’re a fan of set piece specialists in football, sorry, ‘soccer’).

There are plenty of non-black Africans. In fact, I’m pretty sure Arabs outnumber black Africans in all areas of the continent except the Western section (Mauritania, Senegal, Nigeria, that whole area).

And what ‘western paradigm’? There is no one western paradigm, there are a series of conflicting paradigms that aren’t limited to ‘the west’.

‘Used’ and ‘work’ in relation to what? I don’t see how this affects whether black people are (or more precisely, are considered) geniuses.

I think that making general statements about the whole of Africa is foolhardy, and is usually part of some map of excuses written by a ‘gliberal’ critic. The fact is that an awful lot of the corrupt, warmongering bastards in Africa are black people. They are responsible for their own actions, ultimately. Not every corrupt, violent black person can blame their actions on other races, or the world around them, however much gliberal fuckwits might want to let them. Not that I’m accusing you of doing this, you understand, but it is the big danger of the sort of reasoning you’ve employed, that the image of the black African that is perpetuated is one where any achievement is lauded and any corrupt behaviour excused.

theres more men in the hardest physical sciences as well.

males/females have slightly different tendencies/adaptations, men are apparently better at certain types of mental imagination which lends itself naturally to the conceptual foundations of those sciences. (we’re talking about the hardest sciences)

This along with the fact that theres way less women engineers/etc. this doesn’t suggest some kind of social issues between men/women grrowing up, only that men/women are inherently different on average.

You have way more women in certain social sciences (proper sciences in those social sciences) where its dominated by women. Thats not because men are somehow taught by society not to like that stuff while females are. Males/females have different preferences, and its because we’re slightly biologically different as much as everything else.

I think it is quite obvious, almost all ILP members are men. Doesn’t the fact speak for itself?

You take that back now!

It really depends on what you mean by genius. If its purely intellect, then women have as much claim as men, but the problem is the western society doesn’t seem to allow women to reach the same peaks as men.

I don’t think genes have much to do with it, but I don’t think genes have much to do with anything…

Obviously, you can’t deny the influence of the environment. Let’s take Mozart, for example. If Mozart had been the son of a farmer, he would never have touched a key of a piano…or even listened any music at all. Incidentally, the IQ of Mozart wasn’t really great, above average but that’s all.

According to Nietzsche, you need a lot of time in your hands to show your geniality which implies, in most cases, having a good source of funding (being rich, a noble…). When you are worried about making enough income to survive, there is no time to show the world your talents. That’s why it’s mathematically impossible to become a genius when you come from the poorest families.

it has nothing to do with western society but rather visualization skills at the highest levels of science.

  • steven pinker
  • steven pinker

As he also mentions, general intelligence is on average the same, between men/women. (except for the tasks each mentally excel at over one another a bit)But theres more men on the very low end of intelligence then women. and theres more men at the very high end of intelligence. in population samples. (ah, twiffy originally mentioned this).

Again though, there are a lot of female geniuses in sciences which dominate the number of men. Evolutionary psychology has a lot of women which are brilliant by any normal human estimation of the word.

Margo Wilson, Leda Cosmides and so forth.