My philosophy of vegetarianism...

ok, just want to see what you think about this…

I have friends that are vegetarian, most have been vegetarian for years, and in highschool i think i was the odd one out in my circle of friends because i still ate meat… Most of the friends i have had made me somewhat cautious of vegetarianism becuase of the waffle they came out with. One particular friend was ADIMATELY against eating meat becuase she thought it was cruel etc etc, yet she walked around in these big-clod-hopping Doc Martens (big-ole-leather-boots) with no problems what so ever…

anyway, over the years i developed my justification for eating meat, and not being vegetarian. In my mind all animals were created equal- humans have their consiousness and thus fancied themselves above all others. But still it is obvious to me that in this ecosystem humans are only part of a bigger thing- not the biggest thing of a part. I think that the food chain was established for reasons- it combined with the particular eco-system and Both depend on each other for the sustainability of that environment.

I think that vegetarianism is another way for a human to establish themself as being of a higher consiosness than our animal friends. If eating meat is an aminal quality, using your conscience to ‘say no’ to meat is putting yourself up higher than the savage animals who kill each other for food. The impression i got from my vegetarian friends was that i was a ‘lower form’ for still eating meat. When they described meat-eating practices they often used the words savage and cruel, and i got the impression that eating meat ment that you endorsed animal cruelty or something…

Now, dont get me wrong. I in no way support cruelty. The animals we eat should have a happy life and should not be treated cruelly. I believe in humane practices in keeping, and killing of anials used for food. I also dont believe in killing everything in sight ‘for food’ or even for sport- i cant agree with killing something for the sake of killing. I guess i just dont understand the HUGE change in a person when they decide to become vegetarian. I truly got the impression from my vege friends that as a meat eater i was a savage…

this isn’t really all that serious, i jut wanted to see what people think…

I find vegetarian and pro-abortion a contradiction in terms. You are a confusing person for sure.

Good eye, Dragon. Let’s hope that those boots were made with the leftovers, and not as/for the primary reason for slaughtering the animal.

See, I don’t agree. I do think a “food chain” is established, but not that the specifics are necessary, especially in the case of the human being. It comes down to this question: do you need to eat meat to survive. No. Other animals live autonomously, with no decision or capability for remorse. A conscious being, however, who doesn’t need to eat meat and is capable of reflecting on that fact, might create an ethical resolve and raise the questions your friends raise now:

Should I give my consent to the practice of raising a mammal to be slaughtered and eatin? Looking down at the cheeseburger is easier than looking up from it. Switch perspectives with the cow. Now, granted, you aren’t the most clever thing to walk the earth, still you’re alive enough to feel physical pain. You know you are going to die eventually, but you hope that death is not by a cattle prod, or a razor blade across the throat(see, if I bleed you to death while your still alive, the meat will taste better). Its not that you can actually sit there(do cows sit?) and anticipate your death as you peer down the cattle run, so there is no psychological danger there. But the killing is real and it hurts. On top of that, the reason why you were killed was not necessary.

It sucks to be a cow.

You can make a cows life better if you took him to the park instead of eat him.

How could you, you, you, …savage!!

No, Dragon, I’m kidding.

Do what you will. Eventually our sun will burn up its fuel and we’ll all die. Cheesburgers or not.

im not vege…

I have to first of all admit to being a vegetarian. OK, now thats out of the wayi just want 2 say that i had eaten meat all my life with no thought about it. Then, with BSE and foot and mouth ect i became worried about eating meat and decided to try being a vegie. I have been a vegie for about 4 years now. Although im not that strict ( i do eat dairy products) i have found that i cannot go back to eating meat. Its really wierd. People say that the smell of frying bacon is always a tempter. I find the smell of burning meat really repulsive which is something i had never prepared myself for b4 i became a vegie. I tried to eat a burger about a year ago and could only get half way through b4 i thought i was gonna puke.

My point? Im not sure. I admit it does seem rather illogical to be a vegie when we are clearly designed to eat meat+ I also hate people going on about the animal holocaust ect. But i do think that not eating meat has perhaps made me more healthy (i had a blood test a while ago and everything was fine). But i still cant think of a good answer when people ask me “so why are u vegetarian then?”.

There are many philosophically justifiable reasons for eating meat, but this is NOT one of them. Humans have elevated beyond that “reason”. We don’t need meat to survive, or for the ecosystem to survive. To use the “it’s natural” argument is about the most flawed level you can reason on. Following that logic you’d have no problem with all those other things animals do, murder, rape, cannibalism, because it’s a natural part of darwinism!

Furious you’re wrong, animals don’t murder, rape or cannibalize. Those were things invented by the thinking naked ape. One species doesn’t usually kill a member of its same species, it sure as hell doesn’t rape them and It’d be real surprized if there are any mimeotipophagi in the animal kingdom.

Of course they do. Your comments show a great deal of ignorance. References:
is2.dal.ca/~bread/rape.html
cnr.uidaho.edu/range556/Appl … alism.html

As for murder (killing to be accurate), that’s too obvious for me to find a paper on. Animals kill each other in the same species for many reasons, among which are food, sexual or social domination, and territory.

Hey Luke,

That’s all right, Luke. Just continue to live the way that you think is best and leave the rationalizations for later.

Should we deny our inclinations for kindness and benevolence until such time as we possess a flawless moral theory in support of them? Must we wait for an iron-clad moral argument before we act? If your answer is yes, then I’m asking what is your default position until such time? Lacking a perfect and all-encompassing moral theory, should our standard default position be to deny our compassion, our pity and our reverence for life?

Until such time (that oft-quoted, magical moment when pigs fly) that I possess a flawless and all-encompassing moral theory, I’ve decided to let my sense of caritas run the show. My default position isn’t entirely rational, it is, however, almost entirely compassionate. For the time being, I’ve decided to patch the holes in my rational moral theories with my sense of compassion. Here’s the really crazy thing; over the years I’ve come to suspect that the patches are stronger than the theory they’re patching. What’s patching what?

I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 21 (and that was 26 years ago). For the past five years I’ve been a vegan. My vegetarianism was not a rational decision; it was based on a sense of compassion for non-human animals. I doubt that I could defend vegetarianism on rational grounds alone. Oh happy world that I don’t have to! Neither do I have to explain to the woman that I love why I love her; she isn’t doubting my love until she hears my rational explanation for it.

I live in rural Vermont; surrounded by dairy farms. While hiking I often come across cows peacefully grazing along a fence-line. I make it a point to go over and visit with them. Cows have the sweetest eyes. I can look into them and conjure up my Tennyson:

”Now lies the Earth all Danaë to the stars, And all thy heart lies open unto me.”

These are eyes worthy of my love and compassion. I could care less whether or not there is a vast intelligence behind them. Since when did we base the objects of our love on their capacity to know things?

I think so too. My total blood cholesterol level hovers just over 100 (it was 109 at my last checkup). I took a stress-test last winter because I had a sudden chest pain while weight lifting (turned out to be a strained pectoral muscle). While I was on the tread-mill the cardiologist sent a nurse out to summon another physician. With the treadmill at the maximum incline and spinning the wheels off, it took 15 minutes to get my heart up to the theoretical 80% capacity for my age and gender. The floor was filling up with EKG paper and these two docs were just standing there laughing. After the test they were all over me with questions about my exercise and diet. As for exercise, I cross country ski and snowshoe in the winter. Summers, I run twice a week (weather permitting) the highest mountain in Vermont (I work at the top). I lift weights and I have a nutty obsession with doing pushups. For three consecutive years, I did over 100 thousand pushups per year. I switched last year to doing one-armed pushups. If I push it, I can squeeze out a single set of 100 one-armed pushups; mostly I do sets of 50. I’m on track this year to do 25 thousand one-armed pushups. Crazy? I’m afraid so. Fun? Absolutely!

As for diet, I’ve told you that I’m a vegan. All of my food is organically grown. My wife and I grow some 20 to 25% of the food we eat in our own garden. Everything I eat is prepared “from scratch.” I hand-grind all the flour for all of the bread that we eat (wheat, rye and flaxseed). Breakfast is usually rolled oats and fruit. Lunch is our big meal; we usually spend an hour or so at the table between eating, talking and listening to music (it helps here to have an Italian wife). Dinner is invariably simpler; in the winter it’s typically soup and bread. As I write this my wife is making bagels downstairs on the AGA from flour that I ground last evening (Btw, she has a recipe to make them at home as good or better than the ones in the shops - PM me for the recipe). They smell wonderful coming out of the oven and all this talk of food is making me hungry. So enough.

Whether or not to eat meat is a personal decision. But I’m saying that you don’t have to justify your sense of compassion to anyone, not even to yourself. Just enjoy it. Reason is indeed a fine thing; love is even finer still.

“In a full heart there is room for everything, and in an empty heart there is room for nothing.” – Antonio Porchia

Lunch time yet?
Michael

Murder Ain’t killing for one thing. Second I don’t trust your University of Idaho post. After reading it it seems to me to be agribusinessly biased “science” trying to justify the “natural” order of things. Thirdly I havem’t had A chance to read the canadian link, other than glance at it. If flies do rape each other, then I am wrong (Although I have to know the whole context of the experiment).

My metapoint is that agriculture makes humans violent. Farming makes people violent, probably pastoralism as well. This violence then carries over into the animal kingdom when their is contact between homo sapiens and species x.

excellent post Polemarchus

Amen.

Umm… I like meat.

I don’t think anyone should be forced to rationalize their food preferences. If others are vegetarians because they feel the need to be compassionate for animals, that is their choice. They have that freedom. But they still made a choice, which is the important part.

hey i have been vegetarian for almost 13 years. i first made the decision after reading an article on the f.d.a. rules of inspecting meat at slaughterhouses. i had just eaten a huge slab of cow for lunch and my stomache turned as i read. soon after, i heard the song “beef” by krs-1 and found out about the rediculous number of drugs and hormones that are regularly pumped into livestock, as well as the environment in which they are raised. then i learned about veal and chicken “farms” where they grow in cages so small that they cannot move.
this was at a point in my life when i first was feeling unity with all things.
so there i was eating a ham sandwich and having a staring contest with my cat when i felt like i was eating my cat. i could not finish. my cat is my brother so why would that pig not be my brother as well?
my whole perspective changed at that point.
(mind you, im not a militant vegetarian)
i felt that all mammals were the same as me, they all need the same things i do, right.
i gave away my leather clothes and have not worn any since.
when i see people wearing fur it disgusts me. i can understand killing for food but not for fasion.
i have a friend that goes hunting every year and even that makes more sense to me than going to mcdonalds or any other meat pushers. i guess i dont really have a point, eat what you like but educate yourself about nutrition because the human heart and digestive system cannot handle lots of red meat.

a friend of mine raised a cow from birth for years then killed and slaghtered it himself. he said it was delicious with a big smile on his face. me, i couldnt kill anything let alone a pet.

Too much red meat is bad. Some, however, is required. Please read:

ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09356.html
bchealthguide.org/healthfiles/hfile68c.stm

Wow, this has been great…

as stated in my post, this isnt really serious, but it certainly has started some great discusion.

the whole reson behind writing the post came from my clod-hopping-leather-boot-wearing friend. She gave me the impression of her superiority for not eating meat, yet to me she was nothing but a hypocrite. As stated i have plenty of vegetarian friends, none of them got to me like Boot-girl did, basically because they did not preach to me about something which they themselves were still a part of. Another close vegetarian friend became a vege after living on a farm and partaking in killing animals, which she found she could no longer endorse- she made her decision young as well, and i felt that she became a vegetarian for sincere reasons.

The stuff on Animals commiting murder and rape… my understanding of these things are that they must be done with some pre-meditation. Thats why we have murder and manslaughter… murder is pre-meditated, and while the decision to rape may be made in an insant, it too is still decided on before the criminal acts. Therefore, to tell me that an animal is commiting murder and rape you are also telling me that the animal is aware of its actions, has made a decision about what it is doing, and is acting in malice. I think that an animal will act through its precieved necessity to act. If i am threatened, i must kill that which threatens me. I dont think that any of us can say that an animal is acting on any other impulse but instinct. I really dont think we should humanise what animals do.

It appears you forgot exactly why I made the analogy! That was my entire point. You tried to “humanize” killing for food “because animals do it”. As you have just explained, the rationale behind such thinking is absurd, so I suggest you withdraw your original “animals do it” argument entirely with regards to eating meat.

hey adam
have you ever heard of vitamin pills?
they are available at almost any store.
required…?

Kasey.

Iron tablets are suitable for a short term fix for those with dangerously low iron. However, extended use causes many health problems, including bleeding through the intestinal tract. In other words, yes, I have heard of them. Iron tablets are not suitable.

“Morons”, eh? There’s a reasonable person. Good one.

Read the material provided.