The buddhist idea that all religions are a path to enlightenment is faulted. For misconceptions of the soul can be reflected in the fact that people identified the sun as God. Maybe they spiritually felt something to make them believe in God,… but the physical answer was to great for them. I don’t think animals have souls, why else wouldn’t they have desires to advance, or abstract ideas of arts. Yet American Indians believe that every thing has a soul, and Christians believe that God is everywhere. So this kinda shows how misconceptions can be.
I believe that Christ was God and was only limited by language and cultural restrictions. Yet this is why Christ spoke in metephores. As far as how good of a christian I am, this just makes me a firm believer.
I also believe that the Power of the Holy Spirit will change your soul to something simular to the innocents and purity of a new soul. I also believe that in order to get into heaven you have to repent to the Holy Spirit so that it may change you,… thus allowing Heaven to be a perfect place. Thus Ghosts are people who won’t let go of what the Holy Spirit wants to change.
I believe that God exsists outside of time and space, and therefore is everywhere,… and changing reality is but a thought. This is what gives God the power to know whats best for us. Yet God won’t baby proof the world, and we have to figure it out for ourselves. Just like in the old testiment when God washed his hands of the Jews when they choose to have a king.
I think that God is a medium for us. If there is any negative side effects to being psychic (like the aliens we know just got carried away with being psychic) then God eliminates them by being our medium.
Anyways a psychic would have to know too much personal information to get the job of God done. All God does is weigh on peoples hearts to do the right thing and help a brother in need. While a psychic is in it for personal gain.
Of course people say psychics were 100’s of times more powerful in biblical times, then they are now. Yet the bible talkes of how a king went to psychics and witchcraft for the answer to a dream,… and it took the praying of an insignificant believer to get the job done.
Of course most logical people say that psychics are phonies. I say what if they were real??? Why else would people believe in them unless they have felt something to lead them to believe in it.
this should be fun. dont take me too seriously phil, i may joke around but i am actually interested in whats going on in there.
what makes the sun god a misconception and your belief in christianity the truth? or what EVIDENCE leads you to believe that?
wait! before you say that evidence isnt supposed to be a part of believing in religious things, why is blind faith in christianity better or at all different from blind faith in the sun?
dont we all have a built in desire to desperately try to believe in some greater purpose for our lives other than what we see? and what do you mean ‘the physical answer was too great for them’? it seems like believing in the sun is the more logical or physical answer to the question than believing in something totally invisible.
what about bums with no taste? what are the defining characteristics of a soul and what makes you think that?
whats the difference between a dirty soul and a clean one? what makes you think the HS has anything to do with it?
what if i am sorry for all the bad things ive done that hurt other people, but im not sorry about masturbating or having sex out of wedlock or aborting babies or saving lives with stem cell research because god totally did not make it clear that those things are neccesarily bad?
i mean, im sorry for actually hurting other conscious beings that i can imagine experience pain as a result of my actions, but im never sorry for anything that doesnt result in the pain of somebody else who i consider equal to myself.
this is the only logical conclusion i can come to without reading and believing the bible.
if hes OUTside, wouldnt that mean that hes actually NOwhere? (dont answer that). when you say that he knows whats best, do you mean that he created a universe where its possible for us to do the wrong thing without us even knowing it, and his interference is required for us to understand and recognize which things are wrong?
we need him to pop in from time to time to tell us that masturbating and stem cells are evil? and instead of writing fire letters in the sky, he chose to take control of the brains of humans specifically known to be fallible and even evil, who belong to a group of people (popes, priests) who have been known to falsely claim that they have been controlled by god and ordered to do the most awful things (crusades, inquisition).
he takes control of their brains and writes an extremely indirect bible and capricious “Tradition” which must be interpreted every now and then to adapt to changing times? do you believe that god is omnipotent (all-powerful)?
i dont think its that he is unwilling to babyproof, its that if he did, his mission would fail. if everyone knew exactly what was right and wrong because god decreed it, then it would never really be an accomplishment to do the right thing. when youre faced with the choice between hurting foreign farm workers or enriching your multinational corporation slightly less and you know that god will punish sinners, you are a real idiot if you go ahead and hurt foreigners for your own enrichment without realizing that god is gonna mess you up.
so the only way that selfless actions can exist at all is if gods presence is unknown or his attitude towards selflessness is known to be ambivalent. because fear of his retribution will make otherwise evil people act nice for selfish reasons.
isnt it easier to believe that he made the universe according to laws that would result in humanity’s obvious discovery of the one and only true rule: that he ought to treat his neighbor like himself? if we cant figure out all the rules without his intervention, and his intervention can be seen and believed, then if we learn the rules, it wont be much of an accomplishment to follow the god that we believe will mess us up if we dont follow. if he didnt interfere in a way that can be seen and believed, and he requires us to believe his stuff anyway, then thats not fair to those of us who like to see evidence before we believe things.
is it a sin to prefer beliefs with supporting evidence over those that dont? i mean, if youre supposed to just believe stuff regardless of the evidence, or believe whatever a priest says, why arent you muslim? theres more of them than christians. how do you decide which religion you are supposed to follow if you arent allowed to enter evidence into the decision making process?
the reason why he created the universe was the harvest the metaphysical byproduct created when humans do selfless actions, which they can learn to believe (without religion) is the right thing to do, regardless of whether or not they will be punished or noticed for their decision. and after creation, he just left it alone. that fits the evidence pretty well.
The sun God misconception would inhibit people from seeing most all truth of God…
Blind faith is a test of spiritual power, yet science should enhance your spiritual awareness.
Where does this desire to understand the spiritual come from??? I say I think therefore I am,… the mere idea of the soul is proof enough of the soul.
Believeing in something totally invisable is opening up the idea of something that is alien to the physical.
Bums with no taste??? I think bums are in a way revolting against social standards that they cannot conform to for one reason or another.
One definning charecteristic of the soul is in the fact that depression is the lack of hope. You cannot have one and the other logically. Yet how we feel spiritually should be reflected in our brain witch is the recptical for the soul. The soul somehow charges matter (hence we only see the side effects of a ghost) and our brains are conditioned toward the soul. Yet love is another definning aspect of the soul, for when I feel love it comes from outside my body, and not from within like a hormone.
A dirty soul is one that has become caloused to things that are pure and good IE marital love, or a life without drugs. The Holy Spirit sees straight into our soul, and has a residual effect in charging the soul.
It’s my belief that when you reach judgement day, you will be confronted with feelings that should lead to repentance
I myself cannot forgive someone unless they change. Although I can sypathize with them for being ignorant. I guess this is something I need to pray and meditate in the bible about.
One of the things about power is knowing when to use it. So I guess God’s infinate wizdom would allow God to change things in God’s timming. As for the evil acts of men supposing to be powered by God,… God gave us free will. God created us in his image, thus giving us a spirit, God didn’t give this spirit to animals, but made them servents to us.
I think if we only knew right, then doing wrong would be ignorance to us, and would happen ignorantly.
Fear of God should be considered a type of respect toward God,… I guess. We need not fear God if we are right with God, for then we would be in Gods will and favor. But that takes knowing God.
As for witch church your supposed to follow. I tend to believe it takes all types,… and that’s why your supposed to pray about what church to go to. Yet facts that beget faith are just testimony toward the unknown. For faith will beget facts, when practicing faith brings results.
I believe God created the physical reality for the physical benifits. One of them being individuality, for when you are dead all you have to do is think and you can symathize with those around you till we all act the same. Then stimulation would go down, and life (or the lack of) would be mondane. The meaning of life is to live life. As for Gods gain in all of this,… I prefer to think God’s only gain may be to live bi-cariously through us. For I believe that God is unselfish in his will for us. Maybe when we reach a point where heaven is on earth (for I am the way the truth and the life,… no man may get to heaven but by me),… then maybe God will join us hear on earth. I really hate to think of God as isolated by his power. Yet then I can also assume that God is different then us, and is self saticfied with or without us. These spacifics are too unclear for me to make a rashional assumption. I do think there will be somethings humans will never understand.
ok if youre yanking my chain, knock it off. its not very hard to do and i cant see why it would be entertaining.
ok… but why do you think you know the truth and that somebody who says that god is pretty much the same as yours except exists physically as the sun doesnt know the truth? what evidence leads you to believe in the holy spirit instead of the holy solar flare? we’ve seen one of them existing.
thats not what ‘i think therefore i am’ means. in fact i think it means the exact opposite. he was saying that the only thing that i know for sure is that i think and because of that fact, and ONLY that fact, do i know that i exist for sure. just because i see, hear, feel etc myself doesnt mean that i am real because sensory perception can be fooled and we could be in the matrix right now and not know it.
i have the mere idea of a flying spaghetti monster eating you right now. doesnt mean its happening. lots of people have an instinctual hatred of foreigners or different people thanks to evolution. that doesnt mean their hatred stems from something real other than the unsophisticated struggles of our animal ancestors. perhaps our desire for faith is no different than our desire to kill all intruders immediately: irrational and harmful.
what makes you say that? is it possible that the feeling that says ‘love is coming from outside’ actually starts inside your body?
EXACTLY! so one group of guys says that god inspires them and they say to torture natives until they eat eucharist. another group says god inspired them to round up all the peasants and march on israel and kill thousands. another group said that god told them to write books. another group of guys said that god inspired them to select a few books out of the hundreds that were written to be in the bible.
why would you believe any of them? because THEY said they were inspired by god? i say im inspired by god and he decrees that you should eat your shoes. obviously that would be a bad idea.
what other reason is there to believe the people upon whom you base your faith?! they told you to believe them, they also told people to go on crusades and inquisitions. why believe one and not the other?
yeah exactly. if there is no such thing as evil, then doing what we call good is normal and not good.
yeah fear of god is respect. and if you know that he exists, and will punish you, its pretty hard not to respect him. and if you respect him and know that he exists and will punish you, its pretty hard to spit in his face and do bad things anyway.
do you see what im saying? the only reason anyone is capable of doing bad is because they are betting on the hope that god wont punish them. if they know he will punish them, they arent going to be bad, or at least their badness will be severely curtailed.
and more importantly, their selflessness will literally always have a bit of selfishness in it as they anticipate that their gifts they give to the lepers will earn them some of their own super gifts in heaven.
why should you be good?
christianity: god is watching you and he will fuck you up if you dont do what he says
my religion: because it will generate more happiness, and happiness is the only sign of “good” in the universe.
alright fancypants, no more “Yet” for you. you are saying that facts cant prove religion because it is mysteriously beyond what science can ever possibly achieve, which you assume is true simply because thats the way its always been.
and faith will beget facts when you pray to smite supreme court justices and it works and you pray to smite fags in florida and god gives them a hurricane. so then if you prayed to god #3, you were correct! or maybe it was a coincidence. dont you think science would have proven this by now? like in the 16th century when science was invented, id imagine that was probably one of the first experiments ever done.
well that would also mean that god created the physical benefits. before he made the universe, there were no such things as physical benefits, they are a result of his creation. it seems illogical to create something for the sake of that something. you build a car to go places, not so that you simply have a car.
god is bi-curious about humanity? again, the idea of humanity didnt exist until he created it. you cant just say to yourself, before the existence of happiness, that you wish you had some of that delicious happiness. you wouldnt know what it is. happiness is the gasoline that causes humans to strive towards achieving some goal. god made it so that harmony and selflessness lead to the most happiness because thats what he wanted us to do for some reason.
then again, maybe happiness already existed and the universe is a more efficient way of getting it than was previously possible, and thats why god made it. but if god made the universe for the sole purpose of creating happiness, why is it neccesary to make things so far from perfect? why not just a little less than perfect. i mean seriously, i know happiness doesnt work if everything is perfect, but this world is fucked up and it could be a lot better. what if everything looked like america as opposed to mostly shitholes like somalia. it still wouldnt be perfect, but it wouldnt suck crap for most of the population.
if god wanted to make happiness, he could have done a better job, im sure of it. i could do a better job myself. if he wanted to harvest the metaphysical byproduct of selfless actions, i dont see how he could have done it better.
my theory fits the evidence. what evidence does your theory support?
Futureman, ohh so confused. This is just common sence to me. Am I to doubt my common sence for this? Not likely…
You see,… if you think God is the sun, you will probably try to feed god sun food. Thus all religions who saw God as the sun weren’t able to progress spiritually,… and killed off all their families with sun sacrafices.
I think you need to look at first hand accounts of people that have felt the Holy Spirit,… it feels nothing like the scorching heat of a sun flare.
I think there for I am=All I am is what I do,… everything else is just circumstancual.
If we were in the matrix,… there would be no love. For love comes from the spirit, and if my spirit was trapped in a body, and my body never touched your body,… then I could never love you. Therfore all love would be an halucination (but then that does explain the divorce rate).
People that fear foreiners fear whats different. So this can be learned from any instance in life, and is more likely a learned instinct then an inborn instinct.
If love came from a hormone,… how would you trick the body into triggering this hormone? It should be so easy…
When you say God inspired me to kill,… you must be saying that God inspired you,… yet you misherd and connected the dots in your own brain, until you decided to kill. Yet that would mean that your not praying as to how you should kill,… because God wouldn’t be answering you.
[quote / Future man]
my religion: because it will generate more happiness, and happiness is the only sign of “good” in the universe.[/ quote]
I like this way of thinking. That’s why I say that God creates his “rules†to help us live a better life for realistic reasons. Like when I say… Sex outside of love is only limited by what you are willing to try. While love limits sex to an expression of love, and makes it more unselfish in nature. This is why Christians can view a complete stranger as beautiful, but not think about them sexually. They view sex as an expression of love.
Statistically couples that pray together have more intamiate relationships. And doctors who pray for one set of paitents and not another have found a significant difference. In fact these doctors have found that prayer works if you pray for germs. I wonder how that prayer worked,…†God give this life endangering germ some help so that we can prove prayer works.†Yet I doubt prayer would work in sending in hurricanes,… you see scientists have proved that the oceans have warmed up a couple degrees allowing more dramatic hurricanes. In fact they think that 5 more degrees of warmth with cause dramatic flooding. Not the prayer to kill, just global warming. God won’t intrfere with weather as a promice to Noah,…â€I will never foul the earth for the sake of man again.â€
The physical benefits of life wouldn’t be so good without some bad for contrast. YET, I still prefer a life with more good then bad.
Your last statement, I’m not going to even read… Instead I’ll say… get some statistics about religious effects… then make your assumptions.
why would a sun god necessarily require more sacrifices than a god who is invisibly everywhere instead of in the life giving ball of fire in the sky?
well the bright firey part of the solar flare wont reach you, but those things release a lot of invisible electromagnetic energy, which may be much less painful.
what makes you believe that your soul is trapped in your disgusting, poop and bile filled sack instead of in the circuits of your brain? the sensory sections of your brain can be stimulated in such a way that they reproduce all of the reactions that would result from the sensory input that leads to love, and those sensory inputs will trigger the secretion of the chemicals that make you feel love. what makes you think this isnt true?
[quote]
When you say God inspired me to kill,… you must be saying that God inspired you,… yet you misherd and connected the dots in your own brain, until you decided to kill. Yet that would mean that your not praying as to how you should kill,… because God wouldn’t be answering you.
you need to quote me more, i dont know what youre talking about. when did i say god inspired you to kill? i said that popes who claimed that they had been inspired by god started the crusades and inquisitions and so therefore they either were not inspired by god or god is an asshole.
why is this better than two people coming together in order to satisfy their selfish desires? do we really need god to threaten us with heaven or the lack thereof in order to make sure we dont accidentally hurt our sex buddies’ feelings?
and people who pray into adulthood respect institutions based on religion. this is an easy statistic to skew with the fact that praying people arent like normal people. youd need to compare this statistic with people who usually pray but stopped praying for an experimental period to compare with those praying people who continued to pray.
why not? what statement are you talking about? what assumptions did i make? what religious effects are you talking about? what have you said that proves the stories of jesus and the holy spirit arent discredited by the fact that they have the same exact authority and reliability as the cursades and inquisitions? and isnt my theory neat?
wait a minute,… what chemicals make you feel love??? How are they released,… in the brain? or in the skin where you feel the loving person touch you? Either way you say it, you say it is a idea of the brain that can be tricked by manipulating what the reciever of love believes is going on.
Yet I have recievced love even though I was pissed and didn’t want it. While sex (a proven bodily function) can be stimulated by a shoe if the person likes shoes. For sex outside of love is only limited by what you are willing to try.
when you say this, it sounds like a good thing. but you dont seem to think it is.
the link i gave you was for pheromones that you can buy and wear like perfume and girls will smell it and be more attracted to you. theres a big industry with this and the site has links to famous good press theyve gotten.
as for touch, your conscious brain knows that its a loving person, and that triggers the special reaction unconsciously. lots of consciously known things trigger unconscious things. like believing in religion will make you more susceptible to the physical reactions, believing that god is making your spine tingle will make it tingle more. that could be god, he would most likely respond in the same way to that belief, but it could just be your brain.
just because it happens in your brain doesnt mean you are in control of it
really,… what about people that get off on the Donkey show in Mexico,… or hookers, or child molestors, or rape. They are so selfish in their love making, that they don’t even care about their partner. I for one couldn’t get off on it if my partner didn’t like it,… but the mind can be taught to like just about anything when sexual climax is the reward.
So that would mean there is a chemical action that is represented by pharamones,… so wearing the wrong pharamone in calone will make me love myself???
All you have to do is have a life like latex mold of a person. The kind they use in special effects. Then spray it down in pharamones. Then blind fold people and tell them that it’s their spouce thats touching them when it’s really a lifelike simulation. Then you can even use brain sensors to show the reaction.
This is the proof you would so easily achieve if love came from the body and not the soul. Yet I don’t see you proving anything accept your willingness to avoid the idea of the soul.
come on. a human being with a brain knows when its a real person who is capable of moving her body parts and speaking coherently without an annoyingly overly energetic voice.
the pheromones make somebody who isnt feeling so horny feel more horny when they come in contact with the smell. it releases testosterone for men and some other chemical that isnt estrogen for women. the scientific tests show that these chemicals are released when the smell is sensed.
if a person smells it, they will be more likely to be horny. hopefully you will be there, but if its a latex person, they will probably just be attracted to the next otherwise attractive person who walks by.
give me a break this is totally not what the conversation is about.
answer the question: holy dudes dressed up like popes said, among many things, three most important ones:
we should have crusades
we should have inquisitions
we should have a bible containing the following books which we have selected
they claim to have been inspired by god. they said god inspired them to make some crusades and inquisitions in the same way that they said he told them to create the bible. what do you think of that?
Phil27of79 said, “the Power of the Holy Spirit will change your soul to something similar to the innocence and purity of a new soul.â€
Future Man replies,†what’s the difference between a dirty soul and a clean one? what makes you think the HS has anything to do with it?.â€
Phil…â€A dirty soul is one that has become calloused to things that are pure and good IE marital love, or a life without drugs. The Holy Spirit sees straight into our soul, and has a residual effect in charging the soul.â€
Futureman…â€ok… but why do you think you know the truth and that somebody who says that god is pretty much the same as yours except exists physically as the sun doesn’t know the truth? what evidence leads you to believe in the Holy Spirit instead of the holy solar flare? We’ve seen one of them existing.â€
Phil…â€I think you need to look at first hand accounts of people that have felt the Holy Spirit,… it feels nothing like the scorching heat of a sun flare.â€
futureman, “well the bright firey part of the solar flare won’t reach you, but those things release a lot of invisible electromagnetic energy, which may be much less painful.â€
Now tell me, where is the logic in this person’s head? Or is his logic, the lack of logic from an ignorant mindset. Just tell me how this sun flare is going to effect people in a way that makes them assume it’s the Holy Spirit??? I’ve got it,… when they pray, it releases a unique chemical from the brain. This chemical in action causes your overall energy output to have a different signature. This new signature is then residually affected by sun flares that seem to be bigger on Sundays. Now this makes so much since. I’m glad I can waist my time with someone so educated. The whole 20 minutes I spent on every reply has given me the enlightenment of many generations of nay Sayers. You couldn’t admit the truth if it was staring you right in the face.
EX
Quote:
Statistically couples that pray together have more intimidate relationships.
futurteman wrote…â€and people who pray into adulthood respect institutions based on religion. this is an easy statistic to skew with the fact that praying people aren’t like normal people. you’d need to compare this statistic with people who usually pray but stopped praying for an experimental period to compare with those praying people who continued to pray.â€
well future man,… Where do these people learn this respect??? Do they witness something in these religious institutes that has earned their respect??? Maybe you just need to look at it from a different view point. Couples that just started praying together should have the same types of results as couples that have been going to church and praying together their whole life. You see it has absolutely nothing to do with your last quoted statement. (I made a point of noting it was only your last statement I was referring to because I don’t want you to get confused with your lack of common since)
What have you got against God,… and why do you take it out on every person you meet that has seen God. Maybe you should just try to see what they already see, instead of hating on them and ignorantly trying to tear apart the facts in order to keep an ignorant piece of mind. In short I’m not your problem, you are. Quit trying to test me with this BS. Try testing yourself instead. Ohh ya, your already happy, and need no testing. Then leave me alone and be happy with that.
"come on. a human being with a brain knows when its a real person who is capable of moving her body parts and speaking coherently without an annoyingly overly energetic voice.
the pheromones make somebody who isnt feeling so horny feel more horny when they come in contact with the smell. it releases testosterone for men and some other chemical that isnt estrogen for women. the scientific tests show that these chemicals are released when the smell is sensed.
if a person smells it, they will be more likely to be horny. hopefully you will be there, but if its a latex person, they will probably just be attracted to the next otherwise attractive person who walks by. "
above quote curtouscy of future man in reply to useing special effect dummys in fooling people into thinking it’s the warmth of love because he believes love comes from a chemical action.
Well all of a sudden it no longer is about love. It’s about sex. Or are you saying that people think of sex and love as the same thing. Or are you saying that it’s impossiable to fool people with special effects. Any of these things you are saying lack intellectual thought and remind me of someone scrambling to avoid the question. What’s the friken point? The only point I’ve learned is that nay sayers have no real thought behind their hates on God.
Or maybe he’s just drunk and doesn’t realize what he’s saying.
I want to take this moment to proclaim that God doesn’t endorce violence unless it’s to stop the hitlers of the world.
Unlike this futureman seems to think. Just remember, the more relgious countries of the time are the one’s who won WW2,… not the anti-relgious, scientifically brainwashed into DNA purifying, hypocritical hitler. Lets not forget that statistic in talling up all the jihads that kill in the name of God.
Or maybe he’s confused by the corruption of the middle ages where kings and lords where only matched by a simple priest (as far as organized power goes),… this allowed the nonreligious king the desire and time to manipulate a priest into wanting something like a crusade. Or even yet,… how about an anti-religous zelot wants to give religion a bad name so he infultrates the mind of a few key priests and causes them to do unrealistic and crule things. This gives the nay sayers power in the scientific comunity and that’s all they want. What zelot would have the power to do this,… the psychic obsessed satan. He saw how science will start to show God as being real and needed to prove it wrong at any cost.
Or is that too far fetched for your mind to comprehend?
Strange that your religious ‘philosophy’ (I use this in the loosest possible sense of the word) is exactly the same as vanilla protestant christianity.
What a co-incedence!
and your religious philosophy is more the lack of one. Kinda like you let me do what I do, and you do what you do,… just don’t hurt anyone. I think the entire city of New York lives that philosphy,… just so long as you don’t ask for help in a rape,… scream fire.
Ohh but then you’ve been showed up, and your scientific mindset says you can learn from your faults. So now you’ll add you should try to help your neighbor in need,… and maybe they’ll reward you with a group orgey.
Cheap shot. I know satanists are just hippies in disguise. Make love and not war dude.
Wow, not a single thing you said here had any truth or made any sense.
You may want to either lay off the drugs, or find a simpler hobby. Maybe fingerpainting?
