MY WORLD for me and nobody else but me!

Two apparently trivial observations on my lunch break – any comments???

  1. Waiting for the bus. Two young girls stroll up and straight by everyone to the top of the queue. Not pushing, not rude just up there to the top as if that was their absolutely natural given position. As if only they existed and a bus at x time would arrive to their service.
    The rest of us not even mere obstacles…just outside their world - irrelevant.

(Of course driver, as is common, went a bit beyond the stop so they ended up at the back of the queue – ho ho :smiley: )

  1. Same bus pulled out – stopped in traffic two other young girls stride out straight into the middle of the road oblivious to traffic etc etc big smiles – banging on the door for entry. My world my bus!

(Of course he ignored them – buses aren’t allowed to take in anyone apart from at designated stops on perfectly reasonable safety grounds)

Do we live in a world (of high capitalism) purely of sovereign, absolutely solipsistic in duh vi duals with every other person and thing at their service?
(like the child with its mother?)

(Or am I an old curmudgeon gone sexist and ageist?!)

kp

…I know what you mean, kross! Like, gag me with a spoon!!

Come to think of it maybe I’m just an old grumpyist - and one that can’t spell either I notice!

kp

They will become of course, wildly successful later. Being totally oblivious to others is a survival trait.

you never have to wait in line if you’re a young pretty female - it’s you’re society-given right to cut to the front of any que - only a neanderthal would think otherwise

This I wonder about strongly I would have thought that being extremely sensitive and aware of the positions and dispositions of others (whether friend or foe, enemy or prey) is a crucial survival trait in either nature or human society. It seems that this utter obliviousness to all objects in your environment could only arise in young scions of a rapidly declining empire!

They weren’t particularly good looking - nor where they, to my mind, playing on either looks or youth.
Do you see my point?
They weren’t making any sort of appeal or threat to anyone in the queue - they genuinely saw only their transport needs and the bus service as existing in the world at that moment as far as I could make out!

kp

Nah, when you’re young and pretty, the positions and dispositions of 99% of others are so completely predictable as to require the minimum no. of braincells to process, and the malcontent 1% will get beaten up by the football team anyway. This leaves the rest of your braincells free for the important things like shopping and watching equally pretty people spout bullshit and fuck eachother over on MTV ‘reality’ programmes.

I strongly agree with you here in general Tab - but I think it was even one step beyond this - like I say they weren’t exactly stunners - perhaps they had never been challenged on anything - even from within the sort of “like you know” culture we assume that they must be existing in!

kp

Krossie,
It is evolutionarly advantageous to appear educated but even more advantageous to take advantage of others whenever you can. What did they risk? What did they have to lose? They walked up to the bus. Most of the time crowds are indifferent. Oft times we are incapable of concerted action. So as they walk up, the only repercussion could be from those right behind them closest to the door. They know what their position was so they may object, but once those pass by, other people farther behind on the line might not even notice. If they do notice then you let them through, but in the end, someone will out of meekness avoid confrontation, even though they know that you were out of place. Such bitches exploit this propensity and take advantage.

Don’t be surprised that this happens. This is the natural, default, mechanism. Sociability is the exception to the rule.

Ah but Omar how come everyone else was calmly queuing then?!?

And in even in that narrow zero sum game sense (and I’m dubious to what extent those models come close to human behaviour without massive refinement) what did we even loose out?

Consider

  1. Their jumping to the top has only minimum effect on us in reality (10 second later onto the bus - different if it was a massive queue but then you might get a different reaction too!)

  2. The driver (maybe one of us “collectively socialised” types) drove slightly past the stop leaving them last!

Any how I genuinely believe that it wasn’t even some sort of game of bluff or arrogance or any sort of social negotiation!

We just did not exist in any sense in their world - as tab implied it was almost as if they had got to a stage or were at from birth a stage where no social calculation was needed - no negotiation or threat or bribe or flirtation because besides them no one existed!

kp

Hello Krossie

Unless they are sociopaths, I would expect even them, if not obviously displayed, to still possess negotiation needs. Are they special cases? I don’t think so. I think that the default mechanism is self-interests whenever anyone can get it…I agree with Glaucon. What about the rest who stayed put and in line? Nothing special. The theory does not require that everyone pursues the same interests all of the time. There are competing agendas, all selfish, in which one rules the moment. At another moment that law abiding citizen who stayed dutifully in-line, races past another car and slices in front of the other car even though there is a solid white line between them. As the Book says: No one is righteous, because unrighteousness is our default, though not absolute disposition…“unrighteous” in relation to a social body, because the individual seeks it’s own fitness, but not absolute because that fitness includes cooperation. Freeloaders like those kids simply exploit a social more, though without being being necessarly unsocial or anti-social. It always depends on who the individual identifies with. If you are at the margins of mainstream society then you feel less of an obligation to the mores or customs of that group.

Perceptions of acts: Oh! Look at that person and what s/he’s doing! My goodness, how rude!

After ascertaining the facts behind the act, perception changes. Perhaps the act was done for an acceptable reason. Maybe they had to get to the hospital because there close relative was in a life threatening emergency, or some other justified purpose the nature of which was embarrassing or awkward to disclose. If perception changed in favor of the act, assistance might even be offered to expedite their objective.

=

HI Omar the memory is fading – but surprise is increasing that people are still replying to this!!

Sociopaths may no longer be the crazy ones - it may be our societal norm!

Anyhow a very good post covering every angle…

I’d say the people who stayed in line were all of those who believe their needs are met to some extent by co-operation plus who have been socialized from birth into a particular style of society where that’s just how its done!

These two moved so fast that there was hardly time to say one way or another –maybe we were just stunned!

What’s “the book” btw or is it just the book of life?

I agree – I certainly have nothing particular or personal against them!

It seemed to me though (and still) that they didn’t even enter into this level of calculation.

Their reflex position (they’re maybe phenomenological pre-thought, pre-social, pre-calculation) default was just
here’s OUR bus lets get on it!

Well slightly beyond rude – in the sense that they didn’t seem to enter into a world of any sort of recognition or any sort of social calculation.

Personally I didn’t care one way or another – it was as much interesting as everything else
(Like most people I’ve long accepted that elementary manners are dead and buried in late western capitalism – so that’s a given!)

mind you I’d have to say if there was some calculation (ha ha lets skip up to the front of the queue and see if we get away with it) then surely the best way to do it would be to act “as if” you didn’t know of its existence or anything outside you and the bus!

Anyhow as the OP even I would now say lets let this one go!

kp