I have always wondered what other people think about how much one should wear. This is very open discussion so it can be based on any type of government but I think it would be best if this discussion was based on one’s own philosophy, kind of a given but eh w/e. Speak your mind.

This moderator gives a handsome prize to anyone who can bring some tangible philosophical substance to this question.

(outside predictable statements of self-image-identity and the projection t-of)

It’s about if the state should make nudism against the law.
So, Pangloss what to I get? :sunglasses:

What your conception of the topic is seems to be a little shallow. I will try to be more precise. Should we personally feel that the way other people dress should be regulated based on the inate feelings of the importance of clothing obviously when climate is not a factor. The answer to this question would be one that represents one’s true nature of either anarchy or complete socialism or I guess if it must be inlcluding, complete democracy although that is a whole other topic. So please do not underestimate the gravity of the answer to the question or the question itself.

I don’t think it’s important and therefore see no reason to regulate it. I think however that most people would not choose to go around naked, out of insecurity as well as practical considerations (cuts and scrapes, cigarette ash burns, filthy pavements etc.).

Grave Disorder
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 2:24 am    Post subject:

I don’t think it’s important and therefore see no reason to regulate it. I think however that most people would not choose to go around naked, out of insecurity as well as practical considerations (cuts and scrapes, cigarette ash burns, filthy pavements etc.).

actually that is a very good comment…it is true in all practical ways…but emotionaly people wont care…some, as you all know, will go nude…they feel it is a way of expression…maybe it is…have you ever tried going nude around town…if you ever did how does it feel…confining or free…always think before outlawing…what about the people…wont it make them feel you are trying to control them…by taking away the right of being nude…so in reality to people it will seem a propaganda…to take away whats left of freedom of expression

This is kind of a difficult one to tackle. There are a couple ways that I look at it. Maybe there shouldn’t to the minimum amount of clothing (or maximum amount of skin that can be shown). For that would limit ones liberty. And since this is (supposedly) a free country, there shouldn’t be a limit on people freedom.

Or at least there shouldn’t be a limit if it doesn’t hurt anyone else. Like murder should be a limit to ones freedom because of the obvious harm to the person(s) being murdered. This could limit the rights of the person being murdered, i.e. the right to live.

So what we should be consideration is: What if you?re ugly?

lol actually that makes sense…many people will be ashamed by there looks…but then again…in that kind of world a world of freedom of self expression…would people care?

I suppose if you look at this abstractly, we can do something with it. The phrase, “I felt naked,” is often used to describe a feeling of showing oneself or showing the true self. Ironically, this is, at one and the same time, often seen as a good thing, “Always be true to yourself” etc.

From an essentialist perspective, your true essence, your soul, your identity or whatever is your ultimate source of power. It is the one thing that you have and no one else does, no one else can touch. This essence must then be protected (why that is is never been clear to me), for while it is your source of power, it, somehow, can be taken away. This is similar to the power of the name in other cultures. You have a true name but it is a source of intimacy and for someone to know it is to have power over you. Levi Strauss talks about this somewhere.

That is, nakedness is the moment when others can have power over you.

On the other hand, from an anti-essentialist, holistic perspective or the onion perspective, there is no essence to any of us. The danger here isn’t a matter of losing power but that if you strip away too much, you don’t just lose your power, you don’t exist anymore. Now, does that mean that your body disappears? Of course not, what it means is that your originality, idiosyncracies, your sense of being different from others disappears. Strip too much away and you won’t be able to think of yourself as something or someone different.

So, if that’s important, don’t go naked.

But take that for what it’s worth.

Brad, it seems to me that you only mentioned the worst sides about nudists and naturists. Now I’ll try to show some of the good sides:

  1. About your first argument, that being without your clothes gives others power over you:
    In most societies, starting from ancient times, peoples clothes showed different sides of their status, like being single or married, and mostly about what a persons economic status were. Clothes cost money, and people who could afford them, bought better clothes than others. Therfore, it is clear that the peson’s clothes were a sign of his power, and the least clothes a person had, the least powerfull he seeemed. Nowdays, people wear clothes a sign of their character, or the way they want others to see their character. Clothes are a good “hiding place”, since you can do nothing, and people will notice you, and have assumptions about your character.
    When you don’t wear any clothes, you cant hide. When everyone around you are naked, it is one of the highest points of openness towards each other, and many poeple find it hard to open up. This is also a sign of sertain equality, since no one can wear something better then te other.
  2. Being nude is a usually means being closer to nature, especially when one is in nature. In the bible, Adam and Eve were naked, and they were, supposably, the first people to have ever lived. Being naked in nature is the a very high point of freedom, since you are not limiting yourself in almost any way.

I could write some more, but I will conclude, that clothes are what makes people differnet from the outside. In a naked society, people are not different from each other from outside, and therefore they can focus on the inside of others, at least after they get used to being naked.

Thread like this happens when philosophers relax. lol. It’s actually fun reading the posts, especially before Leo and Brad.

There have been many societies with miminal clothing/no clothing as the norm. Tribes and villages. So, perhaps we can look at how their governing affect what people wear, and in turn how this affects their life?

good call, arendt, maybe its just culture.

i was scared and almost peed in my pants when discovery channel showed the African tribes and women walking around breast naked !!

but then again, i was only a kid back then, just like i wish i was now :wink:

LOL. :blush:

I dont see the big deal about nudity. I was born naked, I should be able to walk around naked.

I would probably still wear clothes in public so I could easily conceal it when I have a “hard on” though. :stuck_out_tongue:

If we weren’t such intellgent beings and we didn’t question everything then i think it would be ok for us to walk around butt naked. Until then, i shall wear my nike clothes.

I dunno about you but I just can’t live without my Sean Jeans… :stuck_out_tongue:

i dont know about yall, but if you live in the us, with all the MASSIVELY HORRIBLY UGLY FAT people that there are on the street, in the mall, macdonalds (oh yes, always the fast food chains)… if they were to be naked too i think i would never leave any guarded room except to go to another guarded room.

what walk down the street and SEE how a fart sends ripples in some multi layered butt right down the street ? you on a deathwish ?

we wear clothes because most of us are ugly, and for the minority that is not, the effort required seems minimal compared to the hell it would be if people too lazy to take care of their own bodies would also be allowed to strip.

luckily walking around naked is illegal.

But what if that changed? Don’t you think they’d feel some pressure to whip themselves into shape so they could walk around displaying their wares to attract mates just like everyone else? Would it not be the case that “clothed” would become synonymous with “will never get laid” and thus give the best incentive to public health the world will ever have seen?

Even though the question does sound quite strange at first, there is something in it that is of major import especially in our society. Oscar Wilde once wrote “One should either be a work of art or wear a work of art”. In other words: We are what we wear.

This has got to do with the first impression of anything being necessarily superficial. Since we can only judge someone we do not know from their appearance and the way they look, the way we dress heavily influences the way other people see us.

Even in nature herself we find this principle put into practise. Most animals alter their outer appearance in order to attract other specimen of their kind.

So, even though it seems trivial, the question of what to wear is not at all a shallow one. It is really something one ought to consider because like I said our first impressions will always be superficial, no matter what, but thanks to tradition, social conventions and prejudices this Superficiality of the First Impression can be influenced in our favour.

animals are stupid. they have no clue how their thought process works or that a peacock with a big stupid tail has a harder time getting around in small spaces and running fast than the guy with the less shiny object attached to him. if they ACTUALLY cared about these things, peacocks would not look so stupid and inefficient.

yeah if theres one thing you can count on its people being superficial sheep. i look at a girls symmetrical face and lack of obesity and then i see if she is able to have a conversation. her clothes are of absolutly no consequence. what a wonderful world it would be if everyone was me.

this is the unequivocally wrong, incorrect, illogical, bad reasoning that all of humanity should be avoiding at all costs.

sorry, nothing personal. i hate shallowness.