Neo-Feudalism

[Sagesound]

A friend of mine once suggested a science-fiction story in which advanced aliens came to Earth and instead of wiping us out with their superior weaponry and technology, forced us to conform to a societal system, which in the end, saved our planet. The aliens dictated everything in their supreme wisdom and laid down a philosophical guideline that would truly make the people of Earth a unified one, breaking down cultural boundries and beliefs - essentially restructuring the world for the betterment of humankind that would prepare us for the eventual interaction with other alien species in the galaxy. This societal system the aliens implemented was a modern take on something old of Earth’s history. It was Neo-Feudalism.

Before I get into this, one must ask themselves, “why did feudalism fail in the first place?”
One reason (short answer) is that the feudal lords got greedy and stopped believing the system could work when they switched to capitalistic wage-labor. Indentured servitude instantly became a thing of the past. Here in America we briefly had such a feudal society during the Colonial Era, however this backlashed the same way it did in England when the fantasies of the capitalist labor market reached the soils of the New World.
It’s interesting how the same fate befell Japan. The cappy-dream overthrew the idealized structure of the Tokugawa Shogunate.

So now having gotten that out of the way…

Neo-Feudalism is about resetting the caste system to the world we know today by utilizing the Information Age as a tool. By applying what we know from history and taking more cautious measures, we can ensure a society that is economically beneficial for all peoples. For this post, I’m going to use the United States of America as the test ground for this revamp…

The President would have to upgrade from being the silly figurehead (Bush) that it is into a supreme power (Washington). The title “emperor” comes to mind. I say “emperor” because America is an empire in its own rights…

State Governors would upgrade to “kings,” replacing Senators to represent their given “areas of influence” in a new kind of Congress which would then become just a place where the Emperor would address his subjects from.

(Which reminds me, the choosing of the Emperor and Kings would be entrusted to computers which decide - through evaluation of the person’s education, performance, mental capacity, etc. - who will rule. In short, very Darwinist. This system of placement by computers extends to ALL citizens, ensuring that those who show the capacity to perform certain functions in society are given the opportunity to prove themselves up to the task.)

City Mayors would become provincial “lords” as counties would no longer exist and the area of influence big cities have would stretch to cover more ground. These Lords would report directly to their King and although have direct control over their provinces, they would still have only limited control. (I would like to note that I find it disgusting how there are 3,086 counties in this nation - that’s a lot of spheres of influences - the state with the most is of course Texas with 254 - wtf!) Within these provinces of course contain towns that would work to upgrade themselves as reflected extensions of the city their domain is under control of.

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I don’t want to go into any more details until I get some opinions on this… Dammit…a computer system deciding everything… Now I know I’m going crazy…

[my_real_name]

Hi Sage.

How are the leaders selected in this utopia?

How do diverse works work under such a system? I thought city economics in the latter Middle Ages were regulated by guilds, and that Feudalism was mostly over the earlier agricultural economy – at least until Renaissance absolutism came along.

[Sagesound]

@my real name

Hi Sage.

How are the leaders selected in this utopia?

You really didn’t read all of that post did you… If you did, you wouldn’t be asking this question. Please go back and read to find the answer.

How do diverse works work under such a system? I thought city economics in the latter Middle Ages were regulated by guilds, and that Feudalism was mostly over the earlier agricultural economy – at least until Renaissance absolutism came along.

Agriculture isn’t everything in todays world. However, the American labor force would be more adequately compensated with a quasi-indentured servitude where - in a more well-structured cappitalistic sense - the more work a laborer applies themselves to, the more benefits they recieve.

Need I remind you, labor isn’t the only area of revenue for this economy…

I know it sounds silly and crazy…

[tentative]

I read the whole post and you describe leadership (emperor, kings, lords),all being selected by computer based on a variety of talents and skills. Just one simple question: who writes the software the computers will use to select the leadership? Who is that get’s to play the REAL leader?

JT

[Sagesound]

@tentative

I read the whole post and you describe leadership (emperor, kings, lords),all being selected by computer based on a variety of talents and skills. Just one simple question: who writes the software the computers will use to select the leadership? Who is that get’s to play the REAL leader?

JT

See, I told you… I’m going crazy…
Watch out everyone…Sage has gone mad… Muwahahah!!!

[detrop]

Sage:

Don’t worry about setting up a new system right now. That stuff will fall into place when the time comes.

Right now you should spend your time trying to find a way to tear the current system down. But you’ve also got to think realistically here…

Do you know how many philosophy forums are full of people bitching and complaining about America, but without the balls to do anything about it?

Furthermore, those who do have the balls are alone, see. The mediocrity is so think the devil himself is choking. There’s absolutely no way a group of anarchist and revolutionaries could form a size of any formidable strength. Its fantasy, man. I say as Morrison did, “get your kicks before the whole shit-house goes up in flames.”

On a better note, I read today that Russia and China are combining their militarys.

Now that gives me a hard-on.

[my_real_name]

Okay, Sage, I went back and re-read. Thanks for being patient with me. Class act.

You are taking us away from capitalism in order to be more Darwinist? Do we call this new doctrine “Civil Darwinism”, or something? Doesn’t the market do this already?

“Quasi-indentured servitude”? Don’t we have enough wage-slavery as it is? What is the end of this new social order? I’m sure the best thing about indentured servitude was being released after seven years.

mrn

[Sagesound]

Bah, I should have never made this thread in the first place… the idea is way too complex…

[Skydaemon]

@Sagesound

Bah, I should have never made this thread in the first place… the idea is way too complex…

Nah, it’s okay. I think it might help if some people here were to read the conversation that was going on in the other thread too.

ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/vi … p?t=145189

Maybe that will help.

I don’t know about the computer thing, but for lack of a better system to rank things, I don’t think its too bad of an idea. The rest of it seems to work okay though. I completely agree about the county crap. Cities are enough of a breakdown in my opinion without other groupings which don’t really seem to matter too much.

Actually a compassionate shogunate might not be too bad. The caste system certainly had its flaws but it certainly did keep trucking for a while. And corruption and greed are always the things you need to fight against to keep a socio-economic system like that working. But, with good leaders it would probably work out okay. Especially if the incentive system was well built. Then the “oppressed” people don’t feel so oppressed, because they actually get rewarded for working harder. You really can make your own means.

[my_real_name]

@Sagesound

Bah, I should have never made this thread in the first place… the idea is way too complex…

It’s not that complex: The aliens come down and institute a new government and we all say we like it because they have destructo rays. Not complex at all.

@Skydaemon

Actually a compassionate shogunate might not be too bad. The caste system certainly had its flaws but it certainly did keep trucking for a while. And corruption and greed are always the things you need to fight against to keep a socio-economic system like that working. But, with good leaders it would probably work out okay. Especially if the incentive system was well built. Then the “oppressed” people don’t feel so oppressed, because they actually get rewarded for working harder. You really can make your own means.

I can’t believe it. For all the rotten things people say about the middle ages, here are some young people actually wanting to return to a form of medieval government. (I assume there would be no religion involved, which to many is part of the charm of the Medieval.)

[Skydaemon]

@my real name

I can’t believe it. For all the rotten things people say about the middle ages, here are some young people actually wanting to return to a form of medieval government. (I assume there would be no religion involved, which to many is part of the charm of the Medieval.)

Now, don’t get me wrong, there were many things wrong with the Middle Ages, but the governmental system, in and of itself, was not that flawed of an idea. It takes many things to make it work it a society such as todays, but its possible and not that horrible to think about.

Now about the religious part. I imagine people would still be free to practice what religion they like and suffer any of the consequences that might come of such. However, would there be an inherent link between religion and the way the government functions? Most likely not. Religious dogma and doctrine too often interferes with some of the things that a society needs to function. Religions have great ideas for many things, but running a government I don’t see as one of them.

And I don’t think we need the aliens with big ray guns to threaten us to make it work. I think more that the idea spawned from this, but this would be carried out without all the threats. That somehow we could all get along well enough to make this work.

[my_real_name]

I guess i see more problems with capitalism (non-humanist) than i do with democracy. What will be the guiding principles of the feudal elite? Will we still have a constitution? Who will enforce it, the higher feudals?

Is it a feudal technocracy?

[Sagesound]

@my real name

I guess i see more problems with capitalism (non-humanist) than i do with democracy. What will be the guiding principles of the feudal elite? Will we still have a constitution? Who will enforce it, the higher feudals?

Is it a feudal technocracy?

Heh… Somehow when I read “feudal technocracy,” a light bulb popped up in my head and lit up… Good going, this thread might yet be salvagable.

[ph0rk]

I think the idea, while interesting, would suffer from the same issues as any implimentation of say, communism.

Why?

Because somehow, somewhere, a person has to write the software for the impartial machines - and they really aren’t impartial at all.

Selection based on “through evaluation of the person’s education, performance, mental capacity, etc” isn’t altogether any different than how it is now - and unless the education system is completely normalized (everyone gets the same education no matter socioeconomic status) you are already selecting from a gorup of elites (and in this case elite does not mean elite ability).

You must also create an intelligence test that doesn’t suck and moreover is not culture-biased - we are nowhere near there.

Now I suppose if the strangely benevolent aliens brought this magical technology with them, things would be great - but I doubt it.

Of course, if they -did- and the computer was an AI, what if what was best for the machine was not what was best for humanity? I think I may have read that Asimov novel…