Neverending Debates

If the philosophical debates keep going on like this, when are we supposed to find out the truths?

the only truth is thus: there is only process. Only Flow exists

So what are we “flowing” for?

Wouldn’t you like to settle down once and for all?

Flow is an intransitive verb. Process has no end

here is an end for philosophy:

never think about it again, get on with your earthy life.

flow has no end, but you can always alter the course.

One good perhaps is you know what you know, and able to detect your internal inconsistencies and fallacies when they happen; and if you value intellectual honesty and integrity, and truth, within yourself, then you will be able to correct yourself, and then perhaps new vistas will open up for you, new insights, and the priceless “Ah ha!”

You will be sharper in the mind, ready by constant practice, to see a lie for a lie, or a truth for a truth; to be able to detect the gem in the garbage thrown out. And you’ll be acutely aware too of the comedy of people stumbling over themselves, pretending to say one thing, when they mean something else, consciously or otherwise, the disingenuities of social discourse, and to see the emperor’s new clothes for what it is or isnt.

Ultimately the value is private, unshareable, but real and tangible nonetheless. This process of engagement of minds, or via its proxies, namely these words, and in the issues discussed, is inherently flawed, and we may never ever agree, condemned to go around in circles, forever.

How do you know it’s a circle and not an upward spiral?


This is actually the first of your posts that I’ve read from the begining to the end, word for word.

However, to be observant and acute, philosophy isn’t the only way. More often, the studies of philosophy take one away from the earthly world. In doing what one might do for life, those philosophical knowledge is practically useless.

Just some for-instances:

Aesthetics, who cares what is beauty? Whatever is appriciated is beauty!

Metaphysics, who cares what’s love? Whoever is wanted is love!

Logic, who cares if A=B, B=C then A=C? We think and act and then get things done is what matters!

Our society finds subjects like engineering science, satstical mathematics and social sciences much more useful.

“How do you know it’s a circle and not an upward spiral?”

Even it is such a spiral, where is the top? Is there a top at all? If not, the spiral is rather still a circle.

Not necessarily. Not everything must have a predefined end to be useful/beautiful/productive/etc. What differentiates “basic” research from “applied” research is that “applied” research yields results soon, with predefined goals and tangible fruits within a “reasonable” amount of time; but it’s “basic” research that comes up with the most astonishing and ultimately enlightening facts about the world.

I liken the study and process of philosophy to basic research. We have not yet said everything there is to say; and I doubt if we ever will. There will always be new ideas to think, new discoveries to make. God help us if we ever find “the truth.”

Awwwww … :unamused: … liitle wonder then you didnt find the truths … :smiley:

The celestial engineers flushed the toilet, that why. :astonished:

Zen Swashbuckler:

If there is no top, how do we know that we are “spiraling up”? How do you know that we are not spiraling down or horizantally? If there is no top, then simply, there is no sense of direction. When there is no sense of direction, we can only say that we are going “around circles”.


I take it that you didn’t define youself as the truth. :laughing:

I picture you in your martial art attire carving images into the sand with your bamboo stick while instructing young Samuri, Hermes.

Nicely put.

I don’t think your objection quite reaches my argument; but see if this helps. We are not doing the same exact thing with the same exact results and implications; therefore we are covering some sort of new ground, and therefore making progress of some sort, whatever direction we are going in. People make mistakes, and could well be mistaken about lots of their ideas now; however, this in no way means either that we have been wanking about in circles, or that philosophy is a useless enterprise.

Zen Swashbuckler:

I think I understand your ground, but you see, I don’t think that you quite understand mine. I don’t blame you, because mine is rather kind of unconventional and expressed abstractly.

For me, we have been “wanking around”, as dickhead as that might sounds. I really don’t know how to explain this, should I ask you to read the post named “Extension On What Is Philosophy” in the Essasys And These forum?


Fair enough. The best answer I can give is the one I attempted to articulate in the first two posts I made to the “existentialism” thread in this same forum. Those things are generally what drive me along. I hope that helps? If it helps not at all, I am willing to keep trying, but am less optimistic for success - if you are “losing faith in philosophy” only you can restore that faith, if faith it be. (overused Matrix quote time: “I can only show you the door. You’re the one that has to walk through it.”)

Good man.

I’m not loosing faith in the subject, as I have no faith in the first place. I do, because I wanna do. That’s probaly the only thing that I undoubtly and eternally believe.


Sorry to butt in. I think you are talking about Hegel’s Thesis Vs Anti-thesis. One proposition defeats another, then gets defeated… and arrive at truth.

If you believe that, you are already assuming that truth is linear. Truth can be circular. Also, if you believe the sophists that everything is an invention, then philosophy is a war between two inventions. Each equally meaningless.

If you’ve still got that, I cannot fear, deplore, or warn against any outcome of your thoughts.