Nietzsche's Natural Ethical Order.

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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False.

There is the revaluing of values, which is inherently a meaningless and chaotic basis. It’s as if you are saying that moral relativism is chaotic, but the ethical relativism is not. That’s just pure bullshit.

The ranks you keep spouting about only exist BEFORE the revaluing of all values, due in most part to those who are slaved by the masters.

In the revaluing of all values, all are masters.

You sir, do not understand N.

There are no ranks among Overmen.

I think you are hung up on the notion that it is man’s nature, according to N, to not think morally but ethically, maybe even rationally to a degree.

This, again, says nothing about a “natural order,” ethical or not, once values are revalued.

Revaluing would be the very denial of any natural order, you sir, are wrong. Man’s nature does not give birth to a natural ethical order, it gives birth to a dancing star!

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Showing? You are just saying so - you never back up you mere or mad assertions.

I have a message from the Commander, “Cezar”: get thee hence!

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Understanding Sau seems to mean I will not learn about N from him.

YES!

N would want the imposer of ranks brought down… ranks are as harmful as imposed equality. Fascism and Nationalism is nothing more than a political religion that has swapped out the term “ethical” for “moral,” recreating the same valuation master/slave paradox.

How Sau denies this, is what I would like to understand.

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That is, indeed, pure bullshit; but then again, those are your words, not mine.

Nietzsche’s philosophy is beyond good and evil, but not beyond good and bad.

In a nutshell, the revaluation of values is the rechristening of “good” (as opposed to “evil”) as “bad”, and of “evil” as “good” (as opposed to “bad”). Nietzsche endorses Master morality, not slave morality.

Wha - ha - ha! “All are masters”? And I do not understand Nietzsche?

You are a joke, “Sir”, and this is a serious thread. Kindly get thee hence.

Says who? And even if there weren’t, there are still the last men to stand in relation to. But see Xballer’s “Problem with Nietzsche” thread.

I have already explained (several times) what I mean by “ethical”. I have never said it is man’s nature to think ethically and not morally; rather, I would say that the many naturally think morally (as they are born [Latin natus] slaves). The many are mendacious; few are truthful. Or, to say it with Heraclitus: “hoi polloi kakoi, oligoi d’agathoi”!

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I am reminded of George Morgan’s excellent book, “What Nietzsche Means”. I can’t wait to read your “What Nietzsche Would Want”…

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Yes, small spirits must obey - this is what I told you, “Cezar”. The Commander called me a great spirit, whereas he called you a complete ignorant moron. Granted, he did not call you a small spirit…

The Commander commands you to get thee hence, “Cezar”. I am his messenger, the Mercury to his Jupiter. I am a herald of the lightning. This lightning, however, is called Ãœbermensch…

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Ethics, yes. Natural order, no. Ranks, no.

Yes, I know this already. Why must you restate the obvious as if its a revelation?

So you are saying that the Master morality that N “endorses” means we would not all be Masters?

Again, your contradiction, not N’s.

Show me where N states that there is a natural ranking of men after the Last Man and when all values are revalued?

The Overman stands in relation to NO ONE. You are wrong again.

WE ARE NOT BORN SLAVES, WE ARE BORN INTO IMPOSED CHAINS.

You are wrong yet again, we are programmed to think “morally,” the reality of the impositions of powerlessness via the Master class.

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Well I am already rather tired of reading your imaginary “What Nietzsche Endorses”…

You are a false prophet of N, I reject everything you have to say… and I really enjoy doing it.

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Where - in real life or in Nietzsche?

Because this refutes your claim. After the revaluation, the rank order is:

Good
Bad

Of course it does! There are Masters and Slaves.

Masters
Slaves

“After” the last man? Do you mean after the last man has come about?

The Overman or Superman [Ãœbermensch] is superhuman in relation to the “good”, or to mankind as a whole. How can you be so thick? The Overman is over man - this presupposes a relation to “man”!

Nope, not according to Nietzsche (and me, and Edward Osborne Wilson). We are hardwired. “Nurture” is for sissies. “Nature” beats “nurture” every time.

“Programmed”? I, for one, do not have a static conception of “nature”. Something may become nature (cf. “second nature”).

You are a completely un-Nietzschean Marxist or something. Your resentment is palpable.

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Your radical aristocracy cannot be achieved through Machiavelliean principle alone. You fail to understand the neccessity of the natural ethical order.

One cannot “conspire for power” where tyranny is possible. It would only be a competition for ruling power among individuals. This is when backs get stabbed.

Nor will there be a final world order. Ever. The extent of your radicalism can consist only of syndicate anarchy, organized crime among a few, for the few, and against the many. For this to be possible, ethical order is neccessary.

Your irony, Cezar, is that you cannot be a soldier or a leader, but a brief memory in the minds of those who work to conspire together, in rank, for power.

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Sau, Cezar is right. I fit the so called Aryan mold too, and I am saying this.
Racism, if taken too the irrational extreme that Hitler brought it too, is completely ridiculous and an obvious violation of any sort of good taste. While his people were obviously of a higher caliber than most others, the gross miscalculations that Hitler’s extremist racism led him to comit ie. against the Russians, obviously shows that his thinking is not any sort of truth. While race is certainly important and it certainly is tragic that the socialists act as if all races are the same, it is just as revolting for somebody to be so ridiculous so as to claim that all other races are outright inferior to theirs. Hitler’s lack of education is obvious; many of his racial theories were as ridiculous as the ignorant country bumpkin’s.

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I removed replies of yours that I thought were intentional or unintentional nonsense, if you want those adressed, bring them up.

You misapply the notion of ranks into a natural order.

The Overman would be beyond ranking, no doubt by any measure he is “Beyond Man,” not a simple ordinal ranking among men.

He is not in relation to man, it is the new man. Beyond the rules of men, only serving his rules and his justice.

Ranks and natural orders are petty contraints of the old value system, there is no reason to conclude they matter to the Overman.

The chains are imposed upon our natures, not a part of them, thus the meaning of the term “imposed,” you clearly misread or poorly translated what I wrote.

Yet you have a static conception of ranks and natural order from the Dionysian [irrational] perspective of “reality as it is”? How the fuck do you know how the Overman will value, what he will value, how he would “rank”?

YOU NEED TO STOP PRETENDING ABOUT WHAT YOU CANNOT KNOW.

There is no doubt about hierarchies in society, but the Ubermensch will not necessarily value this, nor necessarily be superior to those he would know he could overpower.

Could he “rank” in terms of making ethical choices? Yes, no doubt he’d have to rank all sorts of things - but there would not be some “natural order” that would be static and true for all Ubermenschen.

Any natural ordering would be relative to that individual, to that time, and to that situation. Reality as it is, not predetermined…

Only of your lies, I probably would like you in real life.

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Nietzsche applies it into that.

Wrong, check out The Antichristian, sections 3 and 4, and Ecce Homo, Why I Am a Destiny, section 5 (yawn).

The “new man” would have a relation to man through time. Anyway, your fantasies about the Ãœbermensch are in no way rooted in Nietzsche. You are simply repeating common (i.e., ignoble) “knowledge”.

And yet Nietzsche does precisely that. I am sure that he was mistaken, and that you know a lot better how it should be. You are the Ãœbernietzsche, so I recommend you share your great insights with people who are actually worthy of them, and not with the likes of me.

Clearly. Now please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere.

I know how Nietzsche has valued, what he has valued, and how he has “ranked” - and that is what this thread is about. Please take your un-Nietzschean fantasies elsewhere.

You should learn to read.

Nietzsche may be wrong about the Superman, but that is not what this thread is about. It is about what Nietzsche wrote and thought. If you crave a discussion about the nature of the Overman, you can start your own thread. Please do!

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I think you are using the term “slave” in the wrong context here. There is not a slave “morality,” but a slave mentality. A slave is an economic description of a kind of person involved in a mode of production. He may have his own culture and hygiene, which again is a matter of class, but he is not physically distinct from those who are not slaves. In fact, the slave is usually the physical superior to his master since he is hardened by work, second only to the soldier, who recieves specialized training that the slave does not get.

And nationalism is simply an instinct, if I may call it that, which is passed down and incorporated into politics. Races have been homogenous for far longer than the practice of bi-racial breeding, so racism is still a natural tendency which can only be refuted with modern science. Also, racism, as Hitler saw it, was supported by metaphysical beliefs. Oh, and Hitler was also disgusted with the Jewish community in Germany at the time of his rise to power. I can certainly understand this. Personally, I can’t stand the majority of black people…but I base this disgust on bad culture, not bad race.

I do and do not support Nationalism. On one hand, it can be a very productive and progressive system for people of the same race (notice the economic leap forward and the level of good morale in the German people during the WW2 crisis.) On the other hand, I view the human species as an experiment…and am quite curious to see what kind of people would be created through bi-racial breeding. In this sense, I treat man as a piece of art on a eugenic canvas.

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…and I meant to add that I blame white men for their decadence, not the black race itself. They are too stupid to make anything of themselves and so should not, indeed, cannot, make decisions about anything…except which word rhymes with other words and how to apply armor-all to car tires to keep that wet look.

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I’m watching a black dude now, here at the coffee shop. He’s talking to a dude about a job he had recently at another coffee shop. His conversation is extremely simple. He says over and over again “yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, etc.,” while complaining about how stupid the people were that worked there (irony). This, of course, really means “because american media has manufactured my own false sense of superior culture through hip-hop, I have an authority in determining who is stupid and who is not, and also, because I cannot make more than minimum wage working there, and in turn cannot buy more gold jewelry, the place has to be stupid because hip-hop stars are cool, which means I am cool, even though I’m not a star, but have convinced you that I should be, because I am so cool, and so I refuse to work there.”

His composure is such that he thinks he’s in a rap video while he stands there merely talking. He sways back and forth, is slumped to one side with a slight break at the knee, head tilted as if he were “checkin’ it out, you know, yeah, yeah.”

My revelation at this point is this: the race can serve no other purpose than that of being a warrior caste. This person is nothing outside of his brute force…and he is indeed extremely well fit. Built like an athelete. His intelligence is minimal, he is easily fooled, but his confidence is high, which is a good combination for a disposable and expendible fighter.

I would like now to instigate a war in america, a war where, as Manson surmised, the black race will destroy the white race, and then will in turn be destroyed by my master race since they cannot rule. What balck people are left will be appointed the job of polishing the tracks on my tanks, as well as hard laboring of any sort.