Nihilism? narcissism? asceticism? what’s wrong with being any one of those isms…? Surely they are there to learn about ourselves, and evolve accordingly, for they exist for a reason.
I am a narcissistic ascetic, and proud 
There is truth in asceticism; there is more truth in narcissism; and there is still more in nihilism.
Okay I’ll give anyone who cares to read an accurate and more neuro-physical description of Schizophrenia:
The brain demands more of itself than memory/other parts can provide for.
Basically, the schizophrenic thinks too much about irrelevant information (and then upon realizing that it is irrelevant, they refuse to believe that they have spent all that time thinking about something that doesn’t matter) - or they are unable to find a solution to a problem of theirs, but they persistently continue digging for a solution (although it might not exist).
Then, this progresses into a downward spiral, and the schizophrenic has sessions of introspection with less and less stimulus from the external world.
At this point, it hasn’t yet become schizophrenia - and most of the time, it is usually just an episode of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or just regular anxiety.
This is when it becomes schizophrenia:
The downward spiral of obsessive thoughts progresses so fast, that the dopaminergic neurons in the frontal lobe are working faster than what other parts of the brain can compensate for (mainly the cholinergic pathways).
Essentially, the schizophrenic produces so many thoughts, that their short-term memory simply lacks the physical resources to keep up with it.
With affective flattening (a symptom of schizophrenia), there is a lack of neurochemical resources in the regions of the brain responsible for producing emotion; so any of the schizophrenic’s thoughts have no corresponding emotions to accompany them.
In a sense, overanalyzing can literally separate the body from the mind - and this experience is often-times synonymous with “psychosis”.
Schizophrenia - whether in the literal or metaphorical sense is a disassociation ; a disconnection with reality. This may manifest as psychosis, belief in little green monsters, paranoia, belief in big golden gods, that you can talk to the trees, that the trees are listening, that you can view your own body from on high, that fairies live at the bottom of the garden and all the possible permutations on a theme.
Nihilism - the growing sense that all these politicians, priests, teachers, parents, peers, and often ourselves, are ‘economical’ with the truth. Having realised this I would say that any human who tends to nihilism would probably either bury such truth and continue as before in denial thus disconnecting with reality or would be unable to live with reality and would seek to end it by committing suicide. The rest would find some way of acknowledging that humans are very good at avoidance and go on living as ‘well’ as possible - seeking to change what dissatisfies and can be changed and living with what cannot. Falling between rocks and hard places, mostly.
Just based on the schizophrenics I’ve met and talked with (my grandfather, and a few people I’ve met in mental institutions) -as well as the research I’ve done on the disorder- the visual hallucinations are actually very rare in schizophrenia, and that’s just Hollywood’s dramatization.
The visual cortex is almost completely moderated through causal interactions: photons activate receptors, which in turn activate corresponding neurons in the visual cortex. There isn’t much room for cognition to interfere. The only real “visual hallucinations” occur when a mind is so tired that it confuses states of near-sleep with reality (which, by a similar mechanism, is how mushrooms and LSD achieve their effects: by binding to 5-HT2a receptors in the visual cortex. 5-HT2a pathways are generally theorized to have the purpose of “comparing” different things that a person has seen throughout the day by seeing what happens when they are blended together [hence, why LSD and mushrooms seem to make things “morph” or “stretch”]) - OR, in the case of schizophrenia, when the cognition is unable to organize information it receives from the visual cortex; and, very uncomfortably, the mind loses all sense of proportion or relativity between objects when the mind is focusing on them.
Schizophrenics are often noted for claiming things like “When I look down at my arm that is resting on the arm of this chair, I can not tell where my arm ends and the arm of the chair begins.” or “The wall in this room is scaring me. I don’t know why, it is just bent towards me at a suspicious angle.”
The hallucinations are often nonsensical to someone who isn’t schizophrenic, and this is precisely what fuels schizophrenia: an inability to efficiently communicate with others.
Usually, schizophrenia only falls into one of three categories:
Paranoia
Severely Disorganized Thinking
Catatonia - which is basically being “locked” within one’s own mind, and paralyzing indecisiveness prevents the individual from moving or communicating. This is arguably the most dangerous schizophrenic episode (concerning the well-being of the schizophrenic themselves, as paranoia is arguably the most dangerous concerning the well-being of other people) because it can be lethal if the schizophrenic doesn’t receive treatment. Muscle tension reaches a level that, after several hours, will cause skeletal muscle collapse and eventually death.
Supporting all of this are the numerous documented occasions where schizophrenics are notably fond of female nurses/doctors, and grow strongly attached to them after just a few minutes. Perhaps this indicates an unfulfilled sex drive? Or the latent need for maternal nurturing?
To add to the confusion concerning the nature of schizophrenia, some professionals argue that “Schizophrenia” doesn’t even exist, and could actually be many different disorders all resting under one diagnosis. Or could really just have the vague definition of “the mind being pushed past its physical limitations”,
That’s not exactly how I see it. Instincts are predispositions towards a behavior, but we have also evolved an elastic way of reinforcing our behaviors (operant and classical conditioning) which aren’t dependent on instincts. I wouldn’t say behaviors ingrained by genes are “suppressed”, some are just negatively reinforced by the environment - like aggression, while others like altruism are positively reinforced.
We lose and we gain our genetic history, we were always forced to adhere to the environment, be it manmade or not, it still doesn’t matter really who or what makes the environment.
The circumstances that brought that individual about change even without him trying to do so, the environment is always changing, so I do not see how trying to change the circumstances makes one self-hateful. One who lives in awful conditions and who tries to change them to something more does not strike me as a form of self-hatred. But changing biological or genetic history of the self, that I agree, it looks like self-hatred.
But I do not believe that appeal to ‘beliefs’ or ‘desires’ or ‘wills’ as explanations of behavior are good, the only explanation can be either genetic or environmental conditioning. ‘Believing’ in God, Heaven, Nothing, etc… don’t cause actions. As much as people like to say that they are motivated by their ideas to act… this is a folk psychology theory as true as alchemy.
What a nihilist might affirm in words is pseudo-motivation of his behavior, beyond a labeling of stupidity the concept nihilism lacks any usefulness.
Excellent =D> …now you see the growing social malaise.
Social engineering.
Of course it does, because where man becomes the dominant factor in environmental shaping, what I call artificial, we get self-referential systems…looping…or Baudrillar’d simulations.
What dominates our experiences are manmade artifices, because nature has been pushed back or fenced in, where even our fruit comes cleansed of all natural blemishes, offering the illusion of quarantined prissiness.
Within such environment where even fear and aggression are considered unacceptable, ennui ensues, the mind being freed from what it evolved to do, now wanting simulations and distractions, and our relative safety and comfort gives us the illusion of personal value, resulting in pampering, disrespect for everything (since respect is a product of intimidation and fear has been turned into an anathema), exaggerated expectations, reaching the level of absurd idealism where extraordinary utopias are imagined that have little reference to reality, and a sense of entitlement, based on the delusion that they “deserve” something or have a “right”.
In fact nihilism is very useful…as a tool for mass population control.
once you’ve slandered reality and denounced the ego, then the organism is putty in your hand…
Such is the danger of ‘in my experience’ type evidence.
I have known three:
One used to complain about being followed by ghosts but then sometimes she thought they ‘maybe’ were aliens.
Another felt he was being closely monitored by some undisclosed ‘other’ in a huge mind experiment and would line his bedroom walls with foil.
Another had regular conversations with ‘Jesus’. Right in front of me.
None of these people were in any way connected with Hollywood but they suffered massive anxiety and distress as a result of their hallucinations.
And I do think these particular individuals were hallucinating despite my knowledge of government agencies and what they are capable of experimentally.
Ah yes. The ‘professionals’. They do their ‘best’. Enough said.
Satyr,
Apologies. I made the mistake of assuming the definitions of “need” vs. “desire” might help you understand the difference.
Need refers to a requisite, as in necessary for a purpose. Desire, on the other hand, refers to an expression of want, as in bringing satisfaction. “Need” may refer to a want, and satisfaction may well be a purpose, but “desire” is not necessarily a requisite for anything outside of itself, it is self-serving and self-justifying.
I desire a cigarette from time to time, yet I know that I do not need them – they are not necessary for any purpose aside from my want (which is also not a requisite since my want has not been deemed necessary). There is an implication of a sense of urgency or requirement in a need that is not necessarily in a desire.
I do agree the two terms are very similar, and even interchangeable in many cases, as they both essentially describe a ‘want’ in relation to a ‘lack’. However, I am proposing that there are instances of desire that do not necessitate, and instances of need that do not imply desire. Thus, the two terms are separate concepts for a reason.
As per my example, I personally know I don’t need a cigarette; I just enjoy them from time to time. Others may need a cigarette to feel normal through the day due to an addiction – there is your sense of urgency and requirement.
When I am sick and know I am close to barfing I fight it because the feeling is horrid. I do not desire to barf by any means, yet one might say I need to barf; no?
[NOTE: I suppose you can count this as your example of “non-generalization” - whatever the hell that even means - in contrast to your over-generalization. Take your time. Soak it in.]
In short, I am saying you’re “over-doing it” in accordance with reality. The mind is more complex than your neat little formula allows. Also, I’m not totally sure how you think the idea of generalization insults anyone (aside from bigotry I suppose), but that would be a great topic for an article in a feminist newsletter or something …that nobody will ever read.
…that is my position. I wrote it.
Only to someone observing these ideals through a nihilistic looking-glass. A state of desperation and/or confusion is not necessarily nihilistic, in my opinion.
Desire. I even avoid needs by desire, we all do. I don’t necessarily need to avoid people for the sake of my quiet, peace, or sanity – I’d rather not be pulled into a stop-and-chat. That’s it. I desire not to chat; this is not a requisite nor an urgent matter by any means – this desire is not necessary.
Confrontation in life is inevitable.
I’m enjoying your dialectic by the way. It’s like debating philosophy with a contestant on a VH1 reality show. You should really consider ending more of your statements with the word “bro”. You can save time too, by replacing your rants with a simple offer to knock everyone out.
Let me tell you my unchanged position. I have great reverence for animal nature. I have great reverence for the human mind. I have no reverence for debased functions.
No
Yes
That is where I see debased functions: repression of the animal nature. I prefer an animal to a line of humans which has been breeding repressed energies.
Ah, so the comment was supposed to refer to me. I thought you were accusing me of calling you naive. But actually I agree, there is no ideal state - except for someone who owns it. A state is in general a vehicle for a privileged group to exert power over the less privileged, and that can grow into an ideal tool in some hands. But ‘objectively’, a state is a monster. The only ideal pertaining to a state is the ideal that the state may hold - guiding and giving meaning to that which it projects beyond itself, in art and industry. The ideal is what harnesses the energies within a state, to make the monster work.
Desire comes into play when an animal reaches such a level of sophistication that satisfaction is taken on as an end, where in more primitive animals, it only occurs as a result and is then forgotten. All that remains after satisfaction in a reptile brain is need - we need a more developed cortex to anticipate the results of fulfilling it.
This fulfillment is the suspension of suffering, of will, and of self.
By self I mean that which results from suffering - the principium individuationis, which is compelled to resist the flux.
The desiring one creates suffering in order to release it.
That seems sensible to me. If not very wise, but truth and wisdom stand on different sides of man.
However if this is sensible and true, then, desire, rather than need or coincidence or no reason at all, would explain why life itself came into being.
No, no, my apologies, were you asking me for my definition for desire?
At the moment "need’ has a more visceral connection to existence and so it interest me more…whereas desire is more a product of culture.
You should explore the connection of that cigarette, and what part in you it placates, before you explore the cultural forces that brought it about, marketed it, and provided you with it as an outlet for needs you were denied satisfying directly.
I desire a car…yet the car is a symbol, a medium, an objective satisfying mutiple needs at once.
And this need is one which is connected to yuor survival.
Really?!
so yuor generalizations, your lower level ones, are acceptable right?
So, if you talk incessantly about one man, which is a generalization, this is acceptable, whereas if I talk of many men, or human behavior, this is over-generalization, right?
Merely a matter of what you, YOU, feel comfortable with.
I would urge you to write a paper describing how science is over-generalizing when it deduces species behavior from studying a few specimens, and that an individual by individual study should be conducted where nothing is even projected beyond YOUR, and those like you, comfort zone.
If i were to ascribe to yuor positinos i would feel ashamed that we make assumptions about a creature, such as a dog, based no superficial criteria…like appearance, or take one dog as an example of canine behavior.
Each dog should have its own study.
But why be so generalizing…I think each cell in each dog, should be individually studied…for no generalization about cellular behavior should be used to deduce anything about cells…that would be prejudiced.
Is that what you understood?
no desperation is not nihilistic, but a particular response which denounces what causes you distress as an illusion, or the self which forces you to experience this distress as soemthing to be overcome, IS nihilistic.
When, for instance, you imagine a world of peace and brotherhood and comfort, failing to realize that it is discomfort and conflict that produces progress and is what natural selection is, and it is what evolves a mind to think such things, then what you are imagining is an ideal world scenario where you are obsolete, yet conveniently the desirable outcome of this world, yuor consciousness is preserved, as if by miracle…enter God.
==========================
Then we agree.
Then we agree.
Satyr,
I’m not attempting to debate the concept of generalization, just a generalization that you have made – specifically that we operate strictly on a basis of need.
My contention is simply that “need” and “desire” are two different concepts for a reason. Of course there are tons of other variables to be considered regarding the human psyche, but human beings are not quite so mechanical in nature (in my opinion). I agree that generalizations, and assumptions, can be very useful for a purpose. However, I also think most assumptions we make regarding the mind - especially the human mind - are too flimsy to be considered a foundation for a solid theory. Superficial criteria can certainly serve as an aid in specific instances, but I think we can agree that criteria can often be illusory or deceptive.
I’m not criticizing your methods so much as I am suggesting that there may be aspects you are overlooking …perhaps in haste.
You desire the care mostly because you need a car for a purpose – something affirmative or promotive of your being. Other aspects, like the a giant Nike sticker for your back window, does not constitute a “need” to me; it is not a requisite or necessity. Of course, one could argue that the uber-confidence you experience in response to your new found coolness is fulfillment of a “need”, but it means nothing. That sticker is not necessary for your self-confidence, it is entirely transitory and delusional in nature. Your being - your ‘self’ - both physically and psychologically, is not dependent upon your desire for coolness.
This is what I am trying to convey. A need implies requisite purpose, necessity, dependency, that sort of thing. Desire does not necessarily imply necessity, but perhaps an illusion of one.
There ya go. Two different concepts for a reason. Needs seem to usually, if not always, boil down to something primal or fundamental. Desire is something more sophisticated as Jake said, more of a luxury or a conduit to self-satisfaction.
Given that you can provide no example of an action not rooted in need, and your inabiltiy to provide one non-generalization, without resorting to arbitrary personal tastes, based on your limitations, there’s not much of a debate.
Then you will have no problem giving us a definition of ‘need’ and ‘desire’ which would express what you think is true.
Start by telling us of a desire which is not rotted in need, directly or indirectly.
Here is one thing YOU might be overlooking: Could it be that my conclusion has come after a long hard look at life, man, and an exploration of need and desire and existence?
Yes, a need to feed myself, as in to drive to work…a need for sexual satisfaction, a sin to pick-up a chick with my wheels…a need to expand my options in satisfying all my needs, in that the car will broaden my access…a need to survive, as in trying to fit-into a system and a group where a car is central etc.
NEXT!!!
See how you can only think of immediate gratification and you can’t think of need outside an immediate threat to your survival.
The desire to display…can be linked to the sexual need.
Still stuck no the surfaces…you fail to follow things through.
It is what has been manipulated for decades by marketing, ever since Bernays introduced Freud’s insights to the Americans.
Coolness, what does it mean…why is it attractive, what does it signify, how does it make you feel and why?
Have you gone further?
Desires can be manufactured…by linking them to fundamental needs…otherwise they fail to take hold.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
If you just stop wherever you feel like it or you can;'t go further, then you fail to see what underlies it all.
Even the sexual desire can be followed down deeper towards the central need of all organisms: existence.
The need to live.
You offer “avoidance” as an alternative to need and when I ask for a reasons as to why one avoids or one fights and/or flees (as you are doing) this is what you respond with?
The last resort of the weakling is to imply slanderous shit about the one he cannot challenge; to cast about derogatory imagery, always avoiding (AVOIDING, as fear causes this) to openly insult, and trying to evoke emotional responses rather than rational ones.
Bravo sir…well done!!!
=D>
Perhaps as you lay there, floating on the water, feeling how wonderfully happy you are, and how at that perfect moment you have no needs…you should allow a small part of that brilliant mind of yours to ask:
Am I breathing, is my heart beating, is my autoimmune system functioning…are my needs continuously urging me to act, and have I evolve automatic responses and activities which I am unaware of, unless I focus upon them, so that I can lie there, like a log, floating like a piece of garbage thinking of my self above need… and why?
Better yet, to prove how absent of need you really are, at those moments of Nirvanic epiphany, instead of floating on your back in the water…turn and float face down on your full belly, which is continuously providing your body with nourishment…then just float there for as long as you can, without moving… tell me how long that miraculous state lasts.
Stunting can take on many forms.
No…BRO?!
:-"
Satyr:
I was thinking about this last night and over coffee this morning. The only word that comes to me that would best describe need is energy, pure energy. I looked up various definitions of need and they are all simply labels to me, which interpret and compartmentalize energy, but don’t use the word. So, at the elementary level, my dear Watson, need reflects energy, is energy, to me.
From the wonderful cosmic explosion, such a burst of pure energy from a star, supernova, whatever, which couldn’t contain itself any longer (need), eventually gave rise to the energy which is our universe and which is us. That energy/need set up the primordial soup out of which our slimy self-replicating genes gave rise to. Can you even imagine the great energy/need that was at work for these some billions of years for our universe and ourselves to have emerged and evolved?
Alright, I will admit that at times the term need might just bother me when I think of it in terms of my individual weakness. I suppose at times I would choose to be much more than simply human - though when I am in awareness, I realize that it is to me a necessary characteristic, reaction and/or response to evolution, within both the animal, and the human animal species.
I don’t quite understand this thought of yours: ….with strength being a lower level of weakness, and all is suffering, with pleasure being a lower level of suffering…Oh, okay, we’re just coming at it from different directions, I guess. Everything in creation needs that energy/need (suffering) in order to evolve, both on a natural, universal evolutionary level and on a personal evolutionary level. So that so-called suffering is really no more than energy/need - for each, it is just given a different perspective, looked at with different lenses, so to speak.
But I wouldn’t say that all is suffering as you have here, though suffering and pleasure are both part of the same energy/need, they are just put into different categories, is all. At the same time, the highest degree of pleasure energy can and will cause the deepest degree of suffering energy. They flow in and out of one another.
When that energy is at an ebb, entropy and inertia set in. I will meet you well let’s say more than halfway. My petting my cat was simply me with my energy/need ebbing. See, I allowed you the need but for me it’s simply a degree or level of energy. At other times, that energy or need is capable of rising to other things, depending how my brain, my self, translate that energy/need. A volcano lying dormant is energy/need at its ebb, an active volcano is one that must maintain a certain level of energy/need. Energy/need cannot be created or destroyed, it already IS, from billions of years before, and I suppose before that, but it can be transformed by us through the different sensations, perceptions, chemicals within the brain, and influences of /biology/psychology/philosophy, science, you name it, that energy or need is the greatest force in the universe.
One might say that love is also a transformational energy/need. Love might be the greatest energy/need in the universe responsible for our evolution in every front. Lust is energy/need, in its lower category, probably running rampant (truly wonderful) but even lust, on its higher level, is an energy/need necessary to further mankind and every interest that takes its hold on us. It’s probably part of inspiration.
I would say that even nihilism is an energy/need – in order to come to terms with one’s life, by either negating it completely, which is not truth or real or by using that nihilistic energy/need by trying to destroy and recreate meaning, making sense of one’s life.
As far as schizophrenia, one can look at that as energy/need gone wrong within the brain’s hardwiring. The energetic chemicals that became a part of us go spiraling out of control transforming an energy into that which is not real but fantasy, sort of like the fantasies of our dream-like state – energy/need from the sub-conscious mind.
Energy at its height that is not harnessed or controlled. Sort of like a Tsunami – once energy reaches that height, it is uncontrollable. A lack of self-awareness, a refusal to look honestly at our issues, a bad case of entropy and inertia when it comes to overcoming/transcend/knowing ourself and what is really rumbling within us that even our sub-conscious has great difficulty in getting to us.
Yes, for me, those needs are energy, too, that can become boundless when not looked at and appreciated for what they are, and not allowed to flow into proper channels. I might compare it to one of those controls on a wall that determines how much light energy you want coming into the room. A bit to the right and more energy, to the left and less. For me, our needs are energy either in control or out of control, or abated and left as a promise to come. The ocean’s stillness does not reflect a lack of energy – it is pure energy beneath.
Levels of energy/need at work.
The ebb and flow of energy/need.
This ease is a product of the ebb of energy/need transformed into a simple idyllic action.
Perhaps that is one way one can look at it Satyr – I will grant you that. But in the elementary picture, my dear Watson, it is simply my perceptions/sensations being interpreted and transformed into the ebbing and flowing out of very low levels of energy/need.
Ah, you used the word energies All you are doing above here is using various labels to explain the same process energy/need. Have You thought any of this through, my dear Watson? 
All I can say here is “Look at the pot calling the kettle black” 
. Tell me, in which way do our opinions not have self-interest – they are our subjective opinions, after all? I think the difference is the way in which we attach ourselves to them or as you used the term detach. Here I am simply relating to you how I am thinking, of course, I realize that all, or most, or some of my thinking may be faulty here (sort of the work of detachment). But I am just responding to this, Satyr. The energy/need that is going into this is coming about, I am sure, from some place deep within, that must express itself. I think self-expression is the highest, most forceful form of energy/need in the universe. Just look at the ways in which it does it, nature and the elements. Aside from that, I am not so attached to my opinions, thoughts as you. Shoot them down, if you will, perhaps they are simply nothing more than excess energy/need - a way to unburden myself, what lies within me, in a matter of speaking. After all, opinions, are just that, opinions, and not necessarily based in truth, except for someone who holds too tightly to them. Perhaps I have much more energy today than I thought.
Insofar as THAT is one’s motives. They are multitudinous, you know. But in here, hopefully it is clarity, above all, albeit I also said excess energy/need and expression. But the one doesn’t cancel out the other – it can ALL be about clarity. Clarity is very important to me. It’s about self-awareness and unmasking illusions.
Other than myself, thank you for including me though I suppose at this point in my evolution my need to see may not overpower every energy/need within me. But I am hopefully headed in that direction. Yes, I can imagine that and I also see that in someone in ilp, no names will be mentioned though in order that I may protect the innocent. But yes, I do understand that overpowering, overwhelming ESS (sort of) energy within, to destroy, re-create and become.
Well, since changing the word need to energy, we may both be headed in the right direction. I was wrong and it is a matter of levels/degrees. Anyway, I do not live in a personal paradise, if I do, it is one that has come about after the so-called mythological garden of eden has been closed down. Trust me, I do not see myself as part of the majority but maybe that’s just my hubris. I’ll have to think on that.
Just call me a dormant volcano at these times. The greatest possibility of chaotic, destructive, re-creative energy under wraps. Have you? But I do get your point. We are so unaware of ourselves, our physical energy and what it takes to keep us together. Despite the fact that our energies are ebbed at this time, very much happens below what we can actually see of that volcano as with an iceberg. I like that analogy. Have you ever seen the beauty, the structure, of what goes on below the iceberg, below the level of what can be seen - it is amazing. or is that New Age nonsense to you too?
After all, there is this: “They violate the aesthetics of a mind that can be enthralled with just the quiet serenity of a mountain slope and the understated elegance of a leaf blowing in the wind. Simplicity is so underappreciated.” 
Hmmmm 
I don’t recognize anything as being omnipotent myself. Transforming energy is a degree or level of strength/weakness, just as knowledge is not omniscience - it is just an accumulation of stored energy to be used as a tool; otherwise it is useless energy, like leaving the light on in your house all day and leaving.
…Appearances can be deceiving. Take a good hard look at my signature.
That is where that energy/need rises up within one, wanting to overcome, to transcend, inertia and entropy, in order to be in a constant state of flux, of becoming, as the micro reflects the macro, once one really begins to see and wants to continue to see even if it means staring into that abyss, leaping into that darkness, self-sacrificing that which is and has already been, in its totality, for that which it will become and become………
At the same time, moments of idleness and happenstance can be quite enriching – and sort of like a refreshing waterfall from the heat/burning sensations of the above.
You may not be part of the herd, but you do not sit alone in that void. It is always swirling and spiraling before us. Some of us move closer to that event horizon, some of us a bit away because we are afraid of getting sucked in by that black hole. I’ve been sucked in at times and it’s spit me back out. Contrary to its nature. Anyway, tell me, how does one know when they have grown beyond their own naivite? That is not a challenge, - that is a question, my energy/need rising up in me to know.
Only for some. Some would prefer to stand in front of the black hole albeit perhaps just slowly and slowly creeping up to it.
Were you in one of those states of absolute bliss?
No shit.
And whom is not weak?
Is not strength, power, a measurment of weakness in relation to an other?
You are thinking ass-backwards, as most do…you assume all are good, powerful, perfect, are then decline to weakness or whatever.
My position is the exact reverse…a more honest one…all is weak, and must ascent towards power; all is lifeless and must struggle towards life.
See above…and don’t give me that tentative perspectivism.
This “coming to it” is fundamental.
Now if you think all is ‘good’ and all is omnipotent and omniscient and Being and comfortable, then show me such a starting proposition…I can show you the opposite easily…and I only ask you to open your damn eyes before I put in the effort to show you what you must be able to see on your own.
You insist on the term "energy’ because you are intimate with it, perhaps.
What is the essence of energy? Think deeper
If you make the connection with activity then you will also realize why all need/suffering leads to activity or the two go hand in hand - ergo existence is need/suffering, on a conscious level, which is life, and activity on an unconscious one, which are all lifeless phenomena energy/matter.
Levels or degrees of activity result in characteristics or divergence, interpreted as characteristics.
So the phenomenon’s color is not other than the phenomenon, unless it is a covering…nor is its form or texture.
This is you trying to turn the tables, after you made a HUGE error.
I ask again, because you avoid tryint to forget:
In that moment of bliss where, according to you, you were not in need because you were not conscious of it, were you breathing, was yuor autoimmune system defending the body from viruses, bacteria, was your skin keeping out the dirt and water, was your body not feeding on the stored nutrients in your stomach, was not your heart beating…were you not an dynamic phenomenon struggling constantly to maintain itself?
Of course you were, but this was so easy that it didn’t even register, as the mind becomes aware of distress when it reaches a certain level…and in this age of immediate gratification the pampered mind begins thinking that it needs nothnig, because its needs are fulfilled relatively easily.
But go ask a man in Ethiopia who has experience with need and especially the degree of need we call suffering and which westerners cringe at the mere mention of because they are spoiled brats.
Well, at least you resisted the temptation to call me a miserable man.
Good for you.
=D> Some candy for the boy.
It must be difficult for you to understand, as with the case of need/suffering, that hiding your appearance beneath clothing or painting over it or putting on a mask, does not make it go away.
By appearance I mean more than visual or what is immediately perceptible, as your guts appear, but not visually accessible.
Only a willful act can hide appearance or an evolutionary strategy which imitates appearance withuot ever getting it precisely right.
Satyr,
Humility is a decaying concept in the mind of modern thinkers. Exercising it doesn’t make you weak or wrong - just human.
My admitted suggestions and opinions are only met with presumption and accusation on your part. You are “logically” deducing what I am already telling you – I am giving a ‘seems to me’ proposition, I am not one to claim absolute knowledge about …anything. Being that you seem to be one that prides himself in said absolutes, I don’t feel a dialogue between us can or will move anywhere. Unfortunately, it seems this applies to all other criticisms as well.
It’s great to defend your ideas, but you seem all too content to dismiss rational arguments.