No man/book can give you truth, you must acquire it

dan020350 · October 16, 2006, 3:53pm

What is gold?
Something that is precious and valuable?

How do you acquire it?
dig for it? what are the utensils?

HOw then is it possible for you to acquire money without working for somebody?

kingdaddy · October 25, 2006, 9:01pm

I completely agree, and I’ll add an honest desire to know the truth is the tool you dig with. However, achieving the honest desire to know the truth is a bit more complex.

Dan1 · October 25, 2006, 9:10pm

It’s always worth it to get more conscious.
From my view point.

Looky, this woman has a pet Fennic:
They are good friends.

The large ears of the Fennic make the being very aware of sound. It can hear things more specifically, far away. This is an extension of consciousness spectrum. And the Fennic is closer to “the truth” about sound, in this way.

Hi IQ is closer to the truth about computations, complex systems, maths, etc.

Naher · October 31, 2006, 8:22pm

How does one know what the truth is? A person sees so many different things,learns so much and feels so much-and is told that it is all the truth. So how so you figure out what is and isnt the truth?

dan020350 · October 31, 2006, 9:42pm

That is why you must explore it yourself, if not, then you are wasting your life.

scythekain · October 31, 2006, 10:12pm

et tu brute?

How then shall I conclude that truth does not come from a book? If you aren’t finding the truth, you aren’t seeking the truth but lies.

And what is that which justice gives, and to whom?

If, Socrates, we are to be guided at all
by the analogy of the preceding instances,
then justice is the art which gives good to friends and evil to enemies.

That is his meaning then?

I think so.

And who is best able to do good to his friends and evil to his
enemies in time of sickness?

The physician.

Or when they are on a voyage, amid the perils of the sea?

The pilot.

And in what sort of actions or with a view to what result is the just
man most able to do harm to his enemy and good to his friends?

In going to war against the one and in making alliances with the other.

But when a man is well, my dear Polemarchus, there is no need
of a physician?

No.

And he who is not on a voyage has no need of a pilot?

No.

Then in time of peace justice will be of no use?

I am very far from thinking so.

You think that justice may be of use in peace as well as in war?

Yes.

Like husbandry for the acquisition of corn?

Yes.

Or like shoemaking for the acquisition of shoes,–that is what you mean?

Yes.

And what similar use or power of acquisition has justice in time
of peace?

In contracts, Socrates, justice is of use.

And by contracts you mean partnerships?

Exactly.

But is the just man or the skilful player a more useful and better
partner at a game of draughts?

The skilful player.

And in the laying of bricks and stones is the just man a more useful
or better partner than the builder?

Quite the reverse.

Then in what sort of partnership is the just man a better partner
than the harp-player, as in playing the harp the harp-player
is certainly a better partner than the just man?

In a money partnership.

Yes, Polemarchus, but surely not in the use of money; for you do not
want a just man to be your counsellor the purchase or sale of a horse;
a man who is knowing about horses would be better for that,
would he not?

wisdom and truth everywhere, but not if you refuse what you read and experience.

Uccisore · October 31, 2006, 11:01pm

So, I have a stupid question.
Why doesn’t getting the truth from a man or a book count as ‘aquiring’?

tentative · October 31, 2006, 11:08pm

Truth can be found in books, the lint in your pocket, at Palomar, the local tavern, and shrooms. Truth is everywhere. But of course, truth is discovered, you can’t just open the microwave and find it.

But you must remember, your truth is only yours. It can never be my truth. (I just said that to irritate Ucc)

scythekain · November 1, 2006, 2:39pm

I used to think so too… until reading one of the great philosophers of the past.

Voltaire on “philosophers”:

modern philosophers (especially the atheists and some agnostics here) tell us there is no moral truth and mankind has no virtue.

SECT
SECTION I

Every sect, in whatever sphere, is the rallying-point of doubt and error. Scotist, Thomist, Realist, Nominalist, Papist, Calvinist, Molinist, Jansenist, are only pseudonyms.

There are no sects in geometry; one does not speak of a Euclidian, an Archimedean.

When the truth is evident, it is impossible for parties and factions to arise. Never has there been a dispute as to whether there is daylight at noon.

The branch of astronomy which determines the course of the stars and the return of eclipses being once known, there is no more dispute among astronomers.

In England one does not sayâ€”“I am a Newtonian, a Lockian, a Halleyan.” Why? Those who have read cannot refuse their assent to the truths taught by these three great men. The more Newton is revered, the less do people style themselves Newtonians; this word supposes that there are anti-Newtonians in England. Maybe we still have a few Cartesians in France; that is solely because Descartes’ system is a tissue of erroneous and ridiculous imaginings.

It is likewise with the small number of truths of fact which are well established. The records of the Tower of London having been authentically gathered by Rymer, there are no Rymerians, because it occurs to no one to combat this collection. In it one finds neither contradictions, absurdities nor prodigies; nothing which revolts the reason, nothing, consequently, which sectarians strive to maintain or upset by absurd arguments. Everyone agrees, therefore, that Rymer’s records are worthy of belief.

The great fallacy of today is that there are multiple truths, and nothing is false…

When the truth is self-evident, (hmm where have I heard that before) there can be no division of truths, and different truths.

that’s why I stand by this statement:

Perhaps one is not seeking lies, but they are seeking justification of their own path… but is justification of one’s actions always truth?

scythekain · November 1, 2006, 2:41pm

because it doesn’t agree with their actions.

dan020350 · November 2, 2006, 1:25am

truths cannot be organize, once it is oraganized you say I have the truth and I shall teach it to you, so you can become a better person. But the better person does not become more better but more conflicted.

scythekain · November 3, 2006, 7:54pm

truth by definition is organization. If something is not true, it’s chaotic. Why would you rather follow chaos than order?

Who would you think that following chaos would make you a better person?

It seems to me the truth makes you conflicted, because you are defying it.

dan020350 · November 4, 2006, 5:42am

have you not see the organizations we have today. Each religion has their own thought for truth, society, political. Organized truths leads to destruction, because it makes the individual a slave to that system of thought, therefore, organized truth is no truth at all.

Uccisore · November 4, 2006, 7:06am

tentative

It’s ok, I understand now.

danOU812 and others,

   I'm sorry to be frank, but this is all very simple.  There's really nothing more to it. Yes, acknowledgding that you don't know anything is a step. If that first step has become a [i]fetish[/i] for you, then there's nothing anybody else can do to pull you out of that morass. Either you'll get exhausted with your own ignorance sooner or later and start reading, or you'll die right where you are now, straddling the starting line. 
    You'll never be Nietzsche, you'll never be Sartre, you'll never be Wittgenstein.  You'll be that guy who successfully admitted that he didn't know anything, and then didn't go on to rectify that situation.  And believe me, nobody will applaud.  This is all fine- and I might ask that you at least not serve as ballast for anybody else, but I know that even that is too much to ask. 
     As for me, I simply have bigger plans.

dan020350 · November 4, 2006, 4:28pm

Uccisaur

I don’t nothing, why ain’t I successful?
you have bigger plans? for security I suspect, for security sake, you have no plans at all.

Ierrellus · November 4, 2006, 4:35pm

Know thyself is a moral mandate only because it is the prerequisite for knowing anything else.

phawkins1988 · November 4, 2006, 5:31pm

Erm … we organise truths all the time. Doesn’t seem to do science any harm.

Uccisore · November 4, 2006, 10:54pm

dan######

I haven’t the foggiest idea what you just tried to say to me. Again, either that bothers you, or it doesn’t.

Justly · November 4, 2006, 11:58pm

==============
The ancient alchemists were said to be able to turn base metals into gold, precious and valuable.

You have to transmute this yourself. How does one do it? If only one has faith that everything both physical and nonphysical originated from God, and that in every man/woman is Christ, that the way to this truth is the cross, then maybe one can find the substance that will bring about the transformation(money, gold, health, happiness, peace of mind).

dan020350 · November 5, 2006, 4:50am

Truths are organized you believe is technology and science. But the truth of living is different. I am talking about not the mind but about life. Truth cannot be organized in life. To go through a system of thought, is to strict the individual. That organized truth which soceity, and religion is trying to do. Destroy and pervert you and me. I do not know do you know you are conditioned.

Unissaur,

it doesn’t bother me, but it does bother you, but you don’t see it. thats all.

Justly,
We are not talking about gold, gold is the metaphor for the thread.