I just came online expecting there to be a angry discussion about the situation already into it’s 6th page of back and forth screaming…
and there is nothing.
The US military doesn’t really enforce a death penalty anymore, hasn’t for decades, so it’s no surprise to me that he’s not charged with the death penalty- which would be expected considering that the bloodbath in Syria is causally attributed to his antics. Even when put into prison, he’ll live a pretty comfy life, with access to TV, Pool Tables, and even using his Montgomery GI bill (yes, military prisoners who earn even a eventual dishonorable discharge somehow get to exploit a loophole that allows them to keep their GI Bill- it’s stripped from veterans who are diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorders or some other difficulty who otherwise honorably serve overseas.) The US Military is surprisingly progressive in this respect, considering it’s population is largely inducted from pro-death penalty states.
So- begin the wikileaks and conspiracy babble, hatred of Bush or Obama, or someone- me even, I don’t care at this point. Say stuff like ‘Free Bradley Manning’ and have a protest-solidarity march for him in downtown Damascus. You can twirl chem-lights and get high as fuck, howling at the cameras while standing dirty and barefoot with your natti hair, or handwalking, twirling on your head as the media films your insightful message, that matches the rhythm of the drumming on the buckets around you.
What he released demonstrated that there was systematic lying to the American people footing the bill for wars abroad. Not a few specific, however important lies and cover ups, but systematic lies and coverups. Since the release of the information no one has been held responsible for systematic lying, or the deaths caused by various practices, and how these lies buoyed up a profit making process. Which is disgusting.
I don’t think his like will be OK. I don’t think military prisons leave much room for breathing.
Military prisons are the best prisons in America, even the worst and most notorious has multiple day rooms with TVs and remotes so you don’t have to get your butt up. A guy from my old unit is in one, did alot of research into it. For lesser crimes, you get sent for a few years to a minimum security prison and are bunked in rooms with 50 people alot like in processing immediately prior to basic training. It’s not bad at all, considering the guys were all trained to put up with such situations voluntarily prior to conviction.
Military prison in bradley’s case is BETTER than some of us live. The chain-gang has been banned, death penalty all but demolished, your given considerable freedom so long as your behave (they use a point system for privileges)
As to the systematic lying, no shit- that’s called diplomacy. There was nothing wrong with witholding that information, the several wars that have occurred in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, and Mali are testament to this. Alot of young children had to die so you can feel righteous and indignant, alot of mothers weep over corpses, because you feel you have some right over collective humanity to know at all costs.
The Moral/Ethical reasons for collecting that information, from chapter 13 of Sun Tzu’s art of war- the moral-ethical reasons for not willy-nilly releasing it is from travesties like this- the goal is to prevent war, or if it has to happen, make it as limited and non-consequential to the average life on either side as possible- bradley manning now has the blood of tribal genocide on his hands in Mali and Syria. All because of a cult of blood that demands to know at all costs. Fuck the war babies, right? Yeah… a bunch of baby killers. Completely needless series of wars.
No, diplomacy is what happens between nations. Unless you are just using the word as a synonym for politeness. I was referring to the information we got about what was really happening in the two wars, we the various citizens whose taxes are paying for those wars. Which was utterly clear…
Sure there was, and they knew there was or they would not have withheld it. The information was withheld because with information the American public would have been less enthusiastic about the wars. They would have known the wars were being regularly misprepresented - marketed - and might not have done what the administrations and their backers wanted - accept paying for the damn things.
Hey, fuck you. Who said anything about my right to know at all costs. Reread my post. I am not saying that all the information that he released should have come out. I see. This thread was a kind of trap. You wanted to dump some anger, so you trolled for an opinion that differed from yours then posted your rant whether it fit precisely or not.
Cheap stupid shit.
An unbelievably naive position. As if there was no one with a great deal of political influence in and outside our highly privitized military who do not benefit from extended conflict, and who do not want to be bothered by reductions in spending in certain areas, or interference in how they run the wars. Who do not want the way they ran these wars to influence future contracts in future wars, wars they will likely lobby for, whether they serve the interests of most citizens or not. And really an appeal to the authority of Sun Tzu is not only silly but does not apply. He is suggesting ideal purposes and approaches. He is not describing what people actually do in wars, let alone the most recent couple.
Anyone who thinks that Manning will have the experiences of watergate conspirators or CEO frauds in some nice minimum security prison should look at what he experienced so far, which started with 11 months of solitary confinement, inside a small cell 23 hours a day, with regular strip searchs and other we will fuck with you practices. He will have a long sentence so he will not be in tier 1 prisons/cell blocks. It’s true. Whatever his prison life ends up being like - whether he manages not to be raped or killed - will likely be better than the lives of some people in the world.
I mean, there are babies being raped and tortured by family members out there and who will also be underfed.
This does not somehow mean that Bradley Manning has much of a life ahead of him. Nor does it mean that the only person in the world who gets to complain is in some dungeon somwhere having their testicles electroshocked. Certain ‘logics’ will try to ‘put things in perspective’ this way, but these have nothing to do with justice or compassion for those worst case sufferers.
In actual fact, what
[size=150]No One Is Talking About[/size]
is the crimes and utterly unethical choices of the powerful people that he exposed and the fact that none of them have been punished.
They should be removed from power and punished. Want to tell me how.
Bradley betrayed a trust, he knew that he was going to get the shit end as betrayers should. It was a good betrayal but, what was the real motive? He kept quiet for awhile then suddenly gets the idea to open his mouth. Motive is a valid point here.
Bradley Manning went way beyond his pay level to do what he thought was a public service. Unfortunately, it didn’t accomplish what he’d hoped. He took that chance and lost. I don’t think he was treasonous so much as idealistic. At least he tried.
Was public service the real motive or did he do it to attack? Sacrificing for emotional angry reasons is quite common. Prisons have many people in them that sacrificed freedom to fill a need for vendetta.
Of course. It’s much easier to just make a baseless accusation about Manning’s motivations and try to insert your worldview into the conversation that way than it is to talk about the real issues his actions have raised. After all, if one addressed those real issues then one’s worldview (whereby the military are all wonderful and spend their time planting pretty flowers in poor countries) might have to be revised…
I wrote a long response to this, and when I went to CTRL C it, I CTRL X it by accident. I will write it in a few days, including pictures of the USDB where manning will be jailed, how nice it is, and about military prisons in general, as well as a quite by quote refutation of the facts.
I’ll also hit upon how Sun Tzu’s admonitions are current, and how a belief in George Bush, Privatization, Halliburton, Blackwater, XE, whatever- has nothing whatsoever to do with wars verging on and definition wise in some locations to Genocide have zero relevancy to these viewpoints, and that the root epistemic cause for this mayhem and disaster stems from this belief system as a didge-justification.
It’s inherently invalid- and am very tempted to write it up again, but my butt is very tired sitting here, and I gotta go.
I’ll get to it in a few days. Maybe tomorrow, or by the weekend. This thread isn’t going anywhere.
In the meantime, look this wiki up- it’s the prison manning is going to: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta … y_Barracks
A guy from my old unit is there. I’ve done alot of research on it, as well as prison websites where the old psychologist for the place in 2009 made a shitload of threads about. I’m not in the mood to go searching for all the links and images again, or of the old women holding babies in Syria. We’ll knock that out soon enough.
You could always have CTRL+Z to undo the deletion. Probably a bit late for this post (which was no doubt overly long, nasty and not at all relevant) but you’ll know for next time…
I used to tell people on aol back in the day that you could press alt and f4 at the same time twice in a row to boot people from a chat room then they’d do it and boot themselves.